The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Most of today's rifles are mostly plastic and metal no craftmanshipGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Most of today's rifles are mostly plastic and metal no craftmanship | Login/Join |
| one of us |
Was investment cast but not cheap stronger then any military 98. One of the best scope mounting systems out there. The MKIIs even better in my option. | |||
|
Moderator |
that's one way to look at it, and while you aren't wrong, that's not what I consider to be correct -- ALL, repeat, ALL, ruger m77, (original, mk1, mk2, rsm, and hawkeye) are investment cast, and this process isn't cheap, though compared to billet machining, it is a less expensive process, that's true. however, the facility of process isn't "cheap" however, other than the original round tops, have square bridges, angled front lug, 3 position safety, no handles fall off the bolts, a fairly attractive hinged floor plate, and a decent stock. if one makes a mauser, with soldered on bridges, to this same standard, the action + work costs about triple the price of fully functional m77 ... same can be said for m70, btw.. the cost of rebarreling either is close to matching the cost of gunsmithing a mauser to match JUST the ACTION of a m77/m70
Yep .. especially from a feature set, with the 3 position safety, and that the tang safety was moved to the bolt safety, as the dang thing is notorious for falling out when you take the gun out of the stock. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| Moderator |
I'll take that as good, constructive, feedback .. i knew it was a rambling rant --  and thanks for appreciating it as a POV, i do appreciate itopinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
One of Us |
i hate "plastic" guns. i prefer blued steel and wood and laminate stocks. i like "older" rifles. 1891(made in 1900) argentine mauser and a 98 mauser(made in 1944) or a 1898 springfield armory. they are all sporterized, which is fine for me. i hunt and i am not interested in collectables.    i also have a 93 mauser(made in 1922) that needs rebarreled, d&t for scope mounts, bend the bolt, 2 position safety and a dayton trigger set.  “All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed — only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.” ― Nikola Tesla | |||
|
| one of us |
Investment casting was one of the great steps forward in gunmaking IMO..as a result we have some nice factory guns at a more than reasonable price such as the Ruger African, and some nice pistols... I like custom Mausers and pre 64s myself, but realize Im a dinosaur these days and I wouldn't have it any other way..I like craftsmanship and early guns, including old Winchesters and Remingtons..I have a SS rifle for blizzard like weather in my homestate of Idaho, don't really care for it but its handy when its wet and cold and rough going in the high country or a La. swamp.. There is a time and a place for all the guns mentioned on this subject.. Jeffeoso is spot on in his post I think!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
one of us |
I too am a fan of the tang safety Rugers, but have really come to appreciate Sako over all other brands. Focus being on the pre-Beretta era A-series rifles. Damn right its loaded, it makes a lousy club. -JW | |||
|
| one of us |
I carry a rifle in behind the seat in my pickup and the tang safety isn't safe in the pickup racks, the safety is riding on the rubber and will come off safety for what its worth..of course the fix is clear on that, don't carry a Ruger with a tang safety in the rack..My no.1s have the tang safety and I grind them flat and checker them, looks nice and works like a charm. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
10-12 years ago I thinned out my hunting rifles. Nothing really remarkable or all that memorable, with some small exception. I bought new rifles, 22lr, 223 rem, 30-06, and a 375 H&H. I went old school, steel and walnut. I wanted rifles that I knew would out last me. Your opinion might not be the same as mine, but I bought CZ-USA.. I very been very pleased with them other than a stock issue I had with the 06. I very sorry to see that they are dropping the DVD rifles, other then the magnums. --------------------------------- We unfortunately will vote our way into socialism. The end result will be having to shoot our way out of it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
--------------------------------- We unfortunately will vote our way into socialism. The end result will be having to shoot our way out of it. | |||
|
| one of us |
Then you should have brought Stainless and STY stocked ones. They would out last you and your kids. | |||
|
One of Us |
I reckon that I don't hunt out of a Model A or in a horse drawn Contestoga wagon. Why would I hunt with a rifle that was from the same time. I own four rifles based on the American Rifle Company Nucleus action. They are greatly improved 3 lug actions with controlled round feed, and fit in a 700 inlet, with a Savage barrel tennon. All of them are in fiberglass stocks and have AICS magazines. I like wood stocks until they break on you. We have 5-20% humidity here. Wood stocks crack here. | |||
|
One of Us |
Has nothing to do with nostalgia, or craftsmanship; It is not that craftsmanship is no longer appreciated. It is simply a mater of young guys doing a cost/benefit analysis, and quickly coming to the (correct) conclusion that a $300 plastic rifle from Dicks will do anything that a $8000 custom one will, and will probably shoot better too. And being familiar with strong plastic things, he buys them, and hunts successfully with them. Of course, no one on AR would do such a thing. Walk into any gun store or show and you will see..... | |||
|
| One of Us |
I resemble  the idea that I'm a young guy! Or that I'm not a member of AR !It's hard for me not to love a very ugly rifle if it's very accurate, especially if I don't have to worry about it's prettiness. Having said that, I totally love beautiful, hand-finished rifle metal and wood. But in the same way I love a Ferrari. I wouldn't own either because of fear of damaging a work of art. But that's just me. Oh — and dpcd — I LOVE my .270 Win!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Proving that there are always going to be data points outside the main path of facts that show a trend. As for 270s, I love them too and own/have owned many. Never fired one though. Just bust them down for the actions. | |||
|
| one of us |
All of which is pointless inasmuch as opinnions differ..I feel sorry for anyone who gives up nostalgia for cheap anything, or a rifle that someone put their heart and soul in to build the perfect gun, then some honky donkey revels in distaste of that mans accomplishments...Many plastic and SS guns are built by gunsmiths that simply don't have the skills perfected to accomplish what our man does..I see couple of smiths selling SS guns with lamitnated or plastic stocks for $10 grand, not that's a rip off any way you look at it.... there is a need for both and plenty of room for both at least so far, the new generations may change that I don't know, but bet dollars to donuts if custom guns go south, its will be only for short time in the long run.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have seen some real craftsman level guns with wood, fiberglass and laminate. There are gunsmiths that produce firearms in all 3 medias, that I wouldn't call gunsmiths but shade tree armorers. Companies that press a few buttons on a CNC machine and shit out a $3000-8000 wood stocked rifle (Blaser, Sauer, Mauser among others) and people lose their minds over it. I don't get that aat all. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Cause like apple iPhones - the guns that roll off the Cnc machines at isny are excellent products and command a fat profit margin. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
I don't think the profit margin is as high as you would believe. There advertising campaign cost must be astronomical for such a small company. They advertise in every magazine globally. | |||
|
One of Us |
I would take issue with that. Having paid my respect to the Gods of Oak and 98 Mauser with a few custom rifles. My favorite, most accurate and versatile, rifle is a J.P. Saucer and Sohn 404 Sauer in 308 Winchester. It is a system rifle. Forearm and butt stocks are easily removed. You can put exhibition quality wood or wear what mine wears which is man made material. It all comes apart and goes back to zero. Every time! Yeah, it looks good in your trophy room with a good cigar and Single Malt Whisky. However, quality does exist in other forms. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
| One of Us |
I don’t know. The German billionaire who own blaser don’t really seem to be profit driven on blaser/Mauser/sauer regiment. They are on sig. I have been trying to get blaser to build 2 rifles for me and my money is treated like it has coronavirus. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
I may get a 404. Tim said I should get a blaser to get started and I never looked back. I may need to get a 404 soon. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
I met Bernard Klaub or whatever his name is at a Blaser sales function in Germany a couple of years ago. They were releasing the new shotgun, and they had a sales and try event at one of the big trap clubs near Frankfurt. Nice guy. Germans consider Blaser to be a lifestyle rifle. The full lifestyle clothes, backpacks, gear, optics and rifles are not as wide spread as I would have thought. Every group hunt I ever went in Germany or drive hunt, I thought the rifle and gear would have been more wide spread. There were probably 300 people at the last drive hunt I went to, and maybe 1 or 2 guys were decked out head to toe in Blaser. The hunt was a mix of Germans, Swiss, Luxembourgish, Dutch and me the American. Considering you can walk into a Frankonia and get most things Blaser. Other gunshops have more Blaser, and some have hardly anything. Beyond Frankonia there were about 20 gunshops in my area, and two of them were really nice. Those two sold all the high end Blaser guns and gear. Frankonia and Merkel have the same owner. Merkel also has a line of clothing to compete with Blaser and Harkila (the Scandinavian high end company that is very common in Germany). Imagine if Bass Pro owned owned a gun company and branded that gun company through all their hunting lines. That is the situation with Merkel and Haenel. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Blaser optics (scopes only) are very good and very expensive. The lifestyle stuff - I am not sure. But I will say the blaser caps I bought in Romania are simply amazing. Baseball caps for $25 that kept me dry in some wet hunting. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
I like synthetic stocks built from fiberglass or composite of fiberglass and Kevlar cut on the lines of the American Straight comb or slight but still straight Monte Carlo. I also prefer just because Controlled Round Feed Model 70. I prefer wood, but I take my rifles and guns into some thick stuff and rain. I am switching to McMillian and Brown Precision. I hate the cheap plastic injection molded stocks that I have actually bent in my hands. I also hate cheap push feeds like the Savage Axis. That is what I like and what I hate. I do not have to explain it better or more than that. I also know that the new market is not treated toward me. That kind of sucks, but it is life. | |||
|
| One of Us |
McMillan are awesome. I should upgrade one of my ruger 375 to a McMillan. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
My first synthetic stocked rifle was a Steyr M Professional .270 Winchester. It was an absolute tack driver and that stick fits me better for off hand shooting than any other I have ever tried. It was not a “cheap” gun. I recently bought a T/C Compass to try out the 6.5 Creedmoor. It was cheap but shoots as well as the Steyrs do. It is a consistent 1/2” 5 shot gun. My Shilohs, Winchester 71 and Mausers are classics and some are works of art. I have used ARs for hunting but they are tools like the TC. I am 53 years old and have tried all manner of guns but when possible I prefer to hunt with my Shilohs. | |||
|
| Moderator |
or if hipoint bought harley!!!! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
all this nostalgia for wood stocked rifles and quality workmanship reminds me of a tv show i used to watch before we moved last year. it was about a custom rifle maker that specialized in making long distance rifles for mainly hunting. lots of glitz and hi tech stuff on each show along with a hunt. they even made custom cnc elevation/windage dials on the scope to fit YOUR custom made/tested/can't miss rifle. then showed folks how to shoot a deer/sheep/pig at 2000 yds with a scope that doped wind, barometric pressure, drop, windage etc. to each his own, but to me, shooting a white tail at 1500 yds then of course highlighting a shit eating grin into a camera is "hunting" at its worst, made possible by big money and a buck rogers rifle. hell yes, i'd hunt out of a model A or a conestoga wagon anyday if i could. years ago i was offered a seat on a boat by a guy that entered bass tournaments on weekends. i thought about it, then decided i liked to fish too much to turn it into a stress induced heart attack. i'll take a beautiful wood stocked semi accurate rifle any day over a whiz band can't miss one. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am in the camp that quality has decreased across the board. I was looking at Ruger single action revolvers this weekend. Every one in the case had gaping at the top of the grip where the panel meets the grip frame in front of medallion. There were tool marks, swirly scratches, on the frame. The flats of my New Model Delta came pre scratched, holster worn. However, it is nothing new. The cost of manufacturing ratio saw the much vaunted Model 70 cheapened over its production line until the rifle collapsed into the Post 63 Model. I suggest everyone read Roger Rule’s The Rifleman’s Rifle not as simply a book about different things on the Model 70, but as a case study on the evolution, or devolution, manufacturing industry in the US. In sort, the Model 70 just did not wake up in 1964 as the cheap rifle we know it as. It was a slow decline in cost saving measures. The bottom of the skid off the hill just happened to be hit in 1964. Therefore, quality is always relative to the era or manufacturing processes in vogue battling cost of manufacturing. That said you see rebounds right. An individual unit or set of units manufactured in a given run can be done to rival quality of whatever standard one compares. | |||
|
One of Us |
The real key is when the actual customer knows the difference between quality + junk. In my opinion, the most stupid thing that Winchester did was a change from a control feed system to a push feed. Model 70 went downhill from there. I admit to being biased but the Mauser system is the best design ever. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
|
| one of us |
Well it is Randy, nothing comes close to Paul Mausers battle rifle..we spruced it up a bit and that's some good and some bad..but we turned the worlds best battle rifle into the worlds best hunting rifle, and it was copied by many others... I might add at this point that the Ruger mod. 77 mark two with m-7o safety in the African model is a wonderful rifle and btw that action that some folks complain about, that came out of a sand mold is the strongest bolt action yet, including the Arisaka..Try to blow one up, not sure it can be done, its as strong as the Ruger no. 1 as a matter of fact..I got one out of the bottom of a lake, it was worthless rusted and a choir to make function, so I tried to blow it up tied to a tire and loaded with bullseye. I ended up with a case tamped full of Bullseye and it sure locked it up and puffed up a bit, took a sledge hammer in a vise to open the bolt and cracked the bolt handle off so had to use a pipe wrench and finally it turned enough to come out and the case was melted into the steel, the barrel bulged 4 or 5 inches, but it did not come apart with a 06 case full of Bullseye, I was stunned...Wish Ihad a couple more junk barreled action to play with Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| one of us |
The most beautiful rifle I have may be a RJRenner Ruger 77 in 7x57, pure German/Austrian schnable with a cross bolt ala most Hawkens rifles. 6 lbs. and shoots like a bench rest rifle..wood is not much other than the awesome workmanship and hard straight grain..Just 6 lbs of classs in a class caliber..I bought it second hand on the internet.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Most of today's rifles are mostly plastic and metal no craftmanship
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia