I have hunted deer/elk in Utah for over 25 years without a magnum. (I hope to draw and elk tag someday and for that I have a 300WSM) But, do people regularly use 300, 338, 375 for deer? How about whitetail? I have killed deer with many calibers, but nothing larger than a 30-06. last year I used a 25-35 on a southern deer tag, and .30US on a cow elk tag.

I dont reload, but are there other advantages to the larger caliber other than weight, recoil, muzzle blast, flinching, cost ...

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
I have hunted deer/elk in Utah for over 25 years without a magnum. (I hope to draw and elk tag someday and for that I have a 300WSM) But, do people regularly use 300, 338, 375 for deer? How about whitetail? I have killed deer with many calibers, but nothing larger than a 30-06. last year I used a 25-35 on a southern deer tag, and .30US on a cow elk tag.

I dont reload, but are there other advantages to the larger caliber other than weight, recoil, muzzle blast, flinching, cost ...

None that are sensible.

Same here. Never shot a whitetail with anything larger that a .30-06.

I know a few folks here in Maryland that use magnums i.e. 7mm Rem., 300 Win mag and a fellow at the club who uses reduced .338 Win mag loads.

About the only explanation I get when I've inquired is that the hunter needs a flat shooter for 300+ yard shots.

Frankly, I like the 7mm-08 and a .303 British for Maryland whitetails.

I consider the 30-06 a bit big on whitetails but very usable. I like a 270 or 7x57 for deer hunting.

not needed but desired.

whatever chokes your chain!

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
I have hunted deer/elk in Utah for over 25 years without a magnum. (I hope to draw and elk tag someday and for that I have a 300WSM) But, do people regularly use 300, 338, 375 for deer? How about whitetail? I have killed deer with many calibers, but nothing larger than a 30-06. last year I used a 25-35 on a southern deer tag, and .30US on a cow elk tag.

I dont reload, but are there other advantages to the larger caliber other than weight, recoil, muzzle blast, flinching, cost ...

Many north americans routinely use more power then is actually needed. Older age usually brings back sensibility.

Definitely not needed, but I have used 375 and 416s just because I wanted to. Use whatever makes you happy. The deer won't care.

any cartridge based on the .308 case will be fully adequate as a deer cartridge.

Same for the .30-06 case and the 'X 57 case.....

There are quite a few others that are adequate as well....250-3000, .300 Savage, 30-30, .32 Special, .35 Remington, and quite a few others.

I can find no real advantage in deer cartridges with cases larger than the .30-06 case. In fact....it's hard to beat the .308 family of cartridges for this purpose.

From my perspective, bullets traveling over say 2700 fps tend toward bloodshot meat at under 100 yds. Other than that, I have no problem with magnums.
GWB

kinda .. but it has nothing to do with the actual external ballistics ...

i tend to hunt deer with a 375 or 416 .. why?
because i consider them mediums, and shoot lots of game with calibers too big ... big slow moving bullets make exits and little meat damage!

The magnum moniker does not always a magnum make.
I typically deer hunt with a 7mmRM mostly because it is very accurate and in its form weatherproof and affords long range capability in case I need it.
Besides, I hate to hunt for something after I shoot it.
My most recent deer rifle purchase and the one with which I hope to do most of my hunting with this year is a Type B Mauser in 9.3.

Ah, a Type B in 9.3, I also have an original and have put EAW pivot mounts and 4x-Leupy on it. I will be hunting Blacktails with it this September and using the 286 Hornady bullets. I kill deer to eat and while I have dozens of rifles, the old 9.3x62 holds a LOT of real utility and tradition for me.

Can you post pix of yours?

I shoot 90% of the big game I take with one of a pair of 300 Weatherbys. Shot them for years and they are trusted friends. If they happened to be 270's or the other way 338's and I was still consistent then that is what I would shoot.
Frankly, the 25-06 too small for elk or 338 too big for deer is just tiresome.

I used a .264Winmag last year and kinda liked it. I've used a .300 H&H in years past too. The deer didn't complain about it too much.

Terry

Shot a 257 Wby mag a good bit. I really like it. Have a 270 Wby right now, like it too. I have shot out to 400 yards with the 257 and 25-0. Really make shots easy. My good buddy shoots a 300 wby and has shot damn near everything on the planet with it. The ol 300 shure builds your confidence.

Ed

I have killed most of my deer with a 35 Whelen, but have also used: a knife, a 60# recurve bow, 30-30 Win, 30-40 Krag, 303 British, 6mm Lee Navy, 256 Newton, 243 Win, 30-06, 44 Magnum, and a 45-70. Shot placement is more important than caliber IMHO.

I have only taken elk with the 35 Whelen.

Barstooler

Magnum is just a label, nothing more. And by the way, you DO have a magnum...that's what the M is for in WSM. Like I said, just a label. I only own one "magnum" rifle and it is a 264 and it does nicely with everything I use it for. Is it my "biggest" rifle, probably not. I would consider the 30-06 bigger, but that is just me. If the question is, "Do I need something that hurts me to shoot for deer?", the answer is NO. (at any range)

It just depends on how far you are shooting. In the woods nothing more than a 30-30 is needed. Where I usually hunt you can shoot as far as you dare. I shoot 185 grain Bergers in my 300 RUM and figure most 30-06 users would use a 180 grain bullet. Heres is some figures. My 300 RUM has more energy at 300 yds than the 30-06 at the muzzle. At 500 yds the RUM has more energy than the 30-06 at 100 yds. If I zeroed my RUM at 300 yds it would be 18.8" low at 500 yds. The 30-06 zeroed at 200 yds would be 47.8" low at 500 yds. Wind drift is considerably less with the RUM at longer ranges. Of course you have alot more recoil too!

You have to get the caliber suited to your needs.

Go ahead and let me have it guys.

God Bless, Louis

I usually shoot whatever jumps out of the safe at me. Some times it's the -06, sometimes the RUM or sometimes the 375H&H. Of course I'm hunting 100lb blacktails amd they are much tougher and more dangerous than any whitetail.

Quote: "Magnum for deer? am i missing something"

Possibly. First, it is impossible to kill deer too dead. I've hunted them with everything from the .22 LR, to the .32-20, through the fashionable middle calibers, and on up to the .450 Ackley Magnum and even the .470. They all ended up with the same exact amount of "dead".

Second, there is no better way to learn to use your magnum rifle well than to hunt regularly with it. Doesn't matter if you're hunting grasshoppers, chipmunks, deer, or Giraffe. The more you use it, the more competent you will be with it, and the better it will perform in your hands when you actually need what it delivers.

I can understand why one might be concerned about another shooter who uses too little rifle for the game sought....that's a question of humane killing.

But I don't see any problem at all with using "too much" rifle. Seems to me to be a matter of personal choice, once the cartridge reaches the "adequate" level.

I have killed deer with a 30/30, a 30 cal carbine and a 338 wm. They all died just fine. I could put my fist in the exit hole from the 338 wm. My dentist uses a 338 wm for deer. I only used it on deer once to see what it would do.

Hello Jon, nice to hear from a fellow Utahn. I have hunted all my adult life with a 270 until a couple years ago. I took my son with me, he didn't have a rifle so I threw my 338 win mag in the case. It's the same case as the 270. You can see where I'm going with this. I pulle a rifle case out of the truck pulled out a rifle, shucked a shell in it and shot a buck. Wow, big difference. Would the deer know it? probably not but I did. DW

I use to only have one rifle. It was a 1962 Remington 700 in 264 Win Mag. I used it for everything from Varmints to Elk. Out West it's pretty open and a 400 yard shot across a Canyon is not uncommon.I have my choice now and for Deer or Elk I use the 264 or a 7mm Magnum.

In my group, we use from a .223 (legal in Nebraska) to a 7mm Mag. With a .308, 30-06, and 25-06 depending on the situation.

I will probably use my 7mm, only because I will loan my .308 to a local pastor for the season. They all will work, just gives you more options.

I used a 7mm Rem Mag for years here in NH. Then I got smarter.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Quote: "Magnum for deer? am i missing something"

Possibly. First, it is impossible to kill deer too dead. I've hunted them with everything from the .22 LR, to the .32-20, through the fashionable middle calibers, and on up to the .450 Ackley Magnum and even the .470. They all ended up with the same exact amount of "dead".

Second, there is no better way to learn to use your magnum rifle well than to hunt regularly with it. Doesn't matter if you're hunting grasshoppers, chipmunks, deer, or Giraffe. The more you use it, the more competent you will be with it, and the better it will perform in your hands when you actually need what it delivers.

I can understand why one might be concerned about another shooter who uses too little rifle for the game sought....that's a question of humane killing.

But I don't see any problem at all with using "too much" rifle. Seems to me to be a matter of personal choice, once the cartridge reaches the "adequate" level.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter also. The biggest rifle I've killed deer with is a .375 H&H, or a 45-70 if you consider that "bigger" than the holland round. Those rifles got used because they happened to catch my eye when I opened the gun safe and I thought it would be fun to use them that day, not because I thought they were needed to kill a deer. As long as they're adequate to kill a deer, and a .375 H&H most certainly is, then why does anyone care what you use? A better question might be why it bothers some people so much to see someone use a magnum on deer. Certainly the most gooned up shooting on deer I've ever seen has been done by guys shooting a .243 winchester. It's not because the .243 is inadequate for deer, though I do think it's marginal, but rather because that caliber seems to be the personal favorite of most of the slob hunters around here. They seem to get a kick out of killing deer with the smallest rifle they can. It's been my experience that guys shooting the relatively (around here) exotic calibers like a .375 H&H, 300 Wby, etc. actually know how to shoot them as opposed to guys shooting .243's who tend to sling lead all over the place.

I know several hunters that routinely use a magnum to hunt WTs. It keeps them in practice so's they don't have to listen to some out of work sheepherder make snotty remarks about magnum shooters: "them'un magnum shooters all flinch and can't hit shit. Heh heh heh. I got my sport withing 700 yards and he missed. I'd got him closer but that's as close as the road went".
If you use a heavy for calibre, ie 160 for 7mag and 200 for a 300, the meat damage that folks talk about just doesn't happen. BTDT

The last whitetail I shot with a mag was a 150 pound doe at about 35 yards. I was shooting my backup rifle because the bolt stop on my 270 failed and I couldn't bolt in another round without the bolt coming out the rear of the receiver. So I was shooting a 300 Win Mag. The doe was running and the 150 grain bullet took her on the point of the left shoulder...and nearly blew her leg off. It was held on by a half inch strip of skin and a nerve. I'd chronied the load at 3400 fps and was shooting a Sierra Pro Hunter bullet.

To be fair, though, at that range, the 270 would have done nearly as much damage.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Quote: "Magnum for deer? am i missing something"

Possibly. First, it is impossible to kill deer too dead. I've hunted them with everything from the .22 LR, to the .32-20, through the fashionable middle calibers, and on up to the .450 Ackley Magnum and even the .470. They all ended up with the same exact amount of "dead".

Second, there is no better way to learn to use your magnum rifle well than to hunt regularly with it. Doesn't matter if you're hunting grasshoppers, chipmunks, deer, or Giraffe. The more you use it, the more competent you will be with it, and the better it will perform in your hands when you actually need what it delivers.

I can understand why one might be concerned about another shooter who uses too little rifle for the game sought....that's a question of humane killing.

But I don't see any problem at all with using "too much" rifle. Seems to me to be a matter of personal choice, once the cartridge reaches the "adequate" level.

Bingo, that pretty much sums it up. Can't killem too dead. I've been useing my STW lately but have killed more Deer with a 338 than anything else. Don't tell anybody but I've been known to pack a Rigby and other silly stuff for Deer. If you've got big guns why not use them? Can't realy remember tracking a Deer. Normaly they're laying right where they got hit. By the way, as I'm sure with most on here, I shoot my big guns like 308s. No flinching invovled.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i tend to hunt deer with a 375 or 416 .. why?
because i consider them mediums, and shoot lots of game with calibers too big ... big slow moving bullets make exits and little meat damage!

I assume this is because the bullet does not expand? If so, is there a type of bullet (harder) that can be used in a .270 that will not expand on smaller game? Then I guess you run into the fact that the hole may be too small? I think I just went in a circle.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dewey:
Can you post pictures of yours? [QUOTE]

Pictures of?: deer, rifles, wife, gf (oh wait that’s been band)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Second, there is no better way to learn to use your magnum rifle well than to hunt regularly with it. Doesn't matter if you're hunting grasshoppers, chipmunks, deer, or Giraffe. The more you use it, the more competent you will be with it, and the better it will perform in your hands when you actually need what it delivers. [QUOTE]

Thats good advise. I bought the 300WSM for the all allusive elk hunt here in Utah (I am getting close) and never thought about using it until then, duh. I have a speed goat, cow elk, and southern deer that I will be using it on this year.

I have shot many Deer with Magnum rifles for good reason. I also hunt Alaska, Alberta, Colorado and Africa. Many times after a hunt after using the Magnum rifle, I have simply used the tried and true load used on Elk, Moose, or African plains game on the Deer. One year in particular I had hunted Moose in Alaska and took a huge Alaskan Yukon Moose with a .340 Wby with a 240 grain North Fork bullet loaded to 2950 fps. It did a fantastic job on the Moose, then a 5X5 Bull Elk and 5X5 Mule Deer both in Colorado, then 12 point Whitetail back in Kentucky. I certainly was more gun than necessary on the Deer, but excellent practice for the load. All that said my ideal Deer rifle for any Deer in the world is the .270 WSM. Good shooting.

I've been known to hunt whitetails with my .338 WM. It's the only stainless/synthetic rifle I own, so I use it on rainy days and leave the walnut/blued guns in camp. Last deer I shot with it was at 12 yds from my tree stand. Surprisingly the 225 Gr. Hornady didn't destroy any more meat than my.308 or my .270.

Using enough gun is important, but it's hard to use too much gun. I've never seen a deer that was too dead. Many hunters just use what they have. I don't normally use a magnum for deer, but I've taken deer with a 300WinMag where a 30-30 would have sufficed. I just wanted some trigger time with the 300.

I've been using a 7 mm Rem Mag for 44 years now it's NEVER FAILED ME regardless of what Animal I've shot

at any range 30 Yd. - 525 Yd. . Accounted for game on 5 Continents and a few Islands .

IMO it's one of the most versatile cartridges around 100-180 grain

reduced loads to Slammers . Bullet selection and weight is more important when hunting with it, than whether

or not it's a magnum or not !. Old hunter told me 44 years ago , if your going to the party bring enough

Gun to get the job done HUMANELY !. So I Did !!!. Do I use it for everything NO but almost could !.

I collect and build rifles, and try to hunt with all of them, no matter how inappropriately huge for deer. The last few years, I have hunted with a 338 and a 458. My 458 I built to be a fast shooting, handy woods rifle. Performance has been fine with both, but I admit that most the deer I killed with a 270 died faster.

I've used .223, 22-250, .243, 270, and 300 Win Mag for mule deer here in Idaho.

Large mule deer bucks are typically larger than the run of the mill whitetails and if the distances are long, I will grab the 300 Win Mag.

That cartridge is inherently accurate and in use with the retrofits of many M24's by the military to extend the distance beyond the .308 range. I bought it originally for hunting elk at longer distances and it has performed well in that arena. It groups very good for me and it's fun to shoot. If you were looking for a longer range mule deer/elk shooter for use in Utah I would recommend the 300 win mag.

I can think of a lot of reasons. First off, how are you going to get field time on a rifle if you don't use it? We can get the equivilent of a lifetimes worth of elk triggertime experience in a single season of deer hunting.In some cases this isn't an advantage on the deer hunt itself, but it does accellerate the ole learning curve.
Second, I've never seen an animal get too dead. I have seen them get dead faster on average with magnums, in name or not.
Third, longrange, wind and horsepower. I can take a couple of my own rifles in .308 and .300 Mag and plop down on my belly at the 600 yard line and kick my own as* with the Win Mag. The mag is going to eat the 08 alive in the wind with bullets optimized for each caliber.It's also going to get to 600 with as much energy as the .308 brings to 300.That isn't going to matter if you only shoot 50.
Trajectory. My STW will allow a center of the vitals hold from zero to over 400. Try that trick with a 30/40 Krag, my .308s or practically any "standard" caliber.
I've killed deer with .45 caliber round-balls, varmint rifles, deer rifles, elephant rifles and most everything in between.That doesn't make them all equal.Not even close.

I used a7mm magnum for twenty years for deer. It was the only rifle I had. Since then I've used a few others bigger and smaller. Haven't noticed any real difference on deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
I can think of a lot of reasons. First off, how are you going to get field time on a rifle if you don't use it? We can get the equivilent of a lifetimes worth of elk triggertime experience in a single season of deer hunting.

thats a problem for me here in utah. I get 5 days on the rifle deer, and general elk you need a side arm to fend off the 17 other hunters that will claim your spike. I am also gonna chase speed goats and SE Idaho mules this year with the 300WSM. Not because you have all changed my mind on the deer, just I need to get some "trigger" time on the 300WSM. 15 pts. and counting for the elk. I guess I answered my own question. The reason people use a larger caliber is practice for a hunt where a larger caliber is more suited.

25-06, 7mm-08 and 270 have become my favorite deer hunting calibers.