quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
I dont reload, but are there other advantages to the larger caliber other than weight, recoil, muzzle blast, flinching, cost ...

Yes. They are very good for sending Heavy Bullets over l-o-n-g distances with a reduced Time-of-Flight - much better than lesser Cartridges.

But if you Hunt up-close, then the 30-06 and 300WSM you mentioned will do just fine - with the proper Bullets for the Game you are persuing.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I live in Utah as well, and I've used many different calibers on deer. I've had the greatest luck with both the 6.5x55 and the 7x57 loaded with 140 grain bullets. I reload for both calibers, but some of the longest shots were made with factory loads that many consider too anemic for deer. I hunt mostly in the high plateaus and mountains of central utah where shots can be quite long, and I've never felt the need to tote a magnum.

The mags offer more range, if the shooter is capable, & can push heavier bullets faster for larger game. Really though, a 06 is a 300winmag 75yds closer, pretty much true for many fo the mags vs std carts IMO. As noted, if you hunt close, keeping your shots under 350yds, there isn't much need for magnums.

quote:

Originally posted by youngoutdoors:
It just depends on how far you are shooting. In the woods nothing more than a 30-30 is needed. Where I usually hunt you can shoot as far as you dare. I shoot 185 grain Bergers in my 300 RUM and figure most 30-06 users would use a 180 grain bullet. Heres is some figures. My 300 RUM has more energy at 300 yds than the 30-06 at the muzzle. At 500 yds the RUM has more energy than the 30-06 at 100 yds. If I zeroed my RUM at 300 yds it would be 18.8" low at 500 yds. The 30-06 zeroed at 200 yds would be 47.8" low at 500 yds. Wind drift is considerably less with the RUM at longer ranges. Of course you have alot more recoil too!

You have to get the caliber suited to your needs.

Go ahead and let me have it guys.

God Bless, Louis

Not going to let you have it but will ask a question. In how many seasons have you been forced to choose between a shoot at 300 - 500 yards and not taking a shot at all? Meaning you never had deer any closer than 300 yards.

I think the precieved need for extrement high power cartridges comes in part from the thought that we much be able to make shots and 300+ yards. I understand conditions vary but I can't imagine a whitetail hunt anywhere in the country not being capable of producing shots at ranges well under 200 yards. My 270 is more than I really need for where I hunt and I wish I still had my 30/30 from back in college.

quote:

Originally posted by McVik:
I live in Utah as well, and I've used many different calibers on deer. I've had the greatest luck with both the 6.5x55 and the 7x57 loaded with 140 grain bullets. I reload for both calibers, but some of the longest shots were made with factory loads that many consider too anemic for deer. I hunt mostly in the high plateaus and mountains of central utah where shots can be quite long, and I've never felt the need to tote a magnum.

I don't think anyone here has said they "need" a magnum for shooting deer, anywhere. But if they have one and want to use it on a particular hunt, so what? They don't "need" to make excuses for that desire any more than they "need" a magnum.

They have it, and it is deer season, and they feel like carrying the maggie that day. What more is needed?

I mean, heck, I have a 30-year old Toyota 4x4 PU which I bought new in 1979. I also have a Porsche that I just put a Corvette engine into, just on a lark. One is fast as hell, the other plods reliably along. Either will get me 98% of the places I need to go. Whichever I choose to drive on a given day depends more on my impulse of the moment I step into the garage than on what I "need".

My rifles get chosen for deer hunts in much the same way. Adequate is adequate. Beyond adequate is okay too.

Alberta Canuck, Now you can put the Porsche engine in the yota. You could drive right up on game and they would think it was just sightseers.

God Bless, Louis

[FLASH_VIDEO] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ture=player_embedded [/FLASH_VIDEO][IMG:left]



By the gods, why would you consider anything else but a magnum??

quote:

...do people regularly use 300, 338, 375 for deer?

No, not many. Most hunters have a getter grip on reality than that.

But, some do it just for the "kick" of using a big gun; that's cool.

Some do it for fear of being unable to put down them big ol' "tuff to kill" deer with a 30-30, etc.; that's amusing.

Why Ask Why?????????

Why Offer Excuses or Explanations?????

Last time I looked each and every one of us is free to make our own choice of what caliber rifle we want to hunt with, regardless of the game.

Whether it be the bigger magnums or the marginal 224 caliber guns.

Why is there some form of incipient need to draw lines as to anothers abilities or reasoning behind their choice of deer rifle?

I primarily hunt southern whitetails in South Carolina. I shot my first with a 300 RSAUM. The exit hole was the size of a grapefruit. Since then I've switched to 7X57, my favorite, 30-06, and 30-30. They all killed em dead. Use whatever you prefer.

Bruce R, Sure I have plenty of "deer" closer than 300 yds. Not necessarily the deer I am looking for. I try not to shoot any antlered deer less than 3 yr old. Some years I don't even drop the hammer on a buck. The years that I do kill a buck on average 2 out of 3 bucks are over 300 yds. I am often sitting on a ridge looking across a valley to the other side of a mountain, watching the whole other side. Many times if I were on the same side of the valley as the deer I wouldn't even be able to see the deer until I was within spitting distance. The shooting I do is very similar to the type of opportunities you would get out in the Rockies. One plus to the type of hunting I do is that the deer almost never smell you and don't know you exist. They are calm and you have plenty of time to range the distance, check the wind, and settle in for a shot.

I usually get extra meat for the freezer with one of two handguns near my house. Shots are usually less than 200 yds as I am hunting the "deer" for meat as there are too many does near my house.

God Bless, Louis

The only deer I have killed with a magnum was a doe I shot at 35 yd with a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 mag. One shot droped in her tracks dead right their. All the rest of the 100 plus deer I have killed were with 270win, 308win, and 30-06. They did just fine never needed a mag. But this year I will be using the 375 ruger I bought for a Brown Bear hunt just makes sense to warm up on some deer before I head to Alaska.

I have rarely used a magnum on deer. (We will not count the 1800fps cas tbullet load from my 375 H&H).

In fact I can only thinl of twice where i have.

The first was when I knew teh ranges could be long across some fields so I used my 264 Win Mag. Shot ended up being just over 200 yards but the potential was there for longer shots.

The other was last year. I was elk hunting here in Colorado and also had a landowner mulie tag. Had not seen a elk for a couple of days and a very nice mulie wandeers in feeding across a hay field. So we stalked in on him and took him at a lasered 172 yards.

The gun was my Sauer 90 8x68 because that is what I had with me at the time. I could have kille dhim with about anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
I have hunted deer/elk in Utah for over 25 years without a magnum. (I hope to draw and elk tag someday and for that I have a 300WSM) But, do people regularly use 300, 338, 375 for deer? How about whitetail? I have killed deer with many calibers, but nothing larger than a 30-06. last year I used a 25-35 on a southern deer tag, and .30US on a cow elk tag.

I dont reload, but are there other advantages to the larger caliber other than weight, recoil, muzzle blast, flinching, cost ...

I've used everything from a .243 to .416 Weatherby Magnum on whitetail. This year I may try my 600 Overkill or 600 Nitro Express double.

Of course the .243 is just fine on whitetails and even larger game animals. So is the 90 HP engine in a Miata. Would be pretty boring if we didn't play with these "unnecessary" calibers especially for these internet discussions. As for my reasons - among others, practice with the big bores on non-dangerous game is good preparation for DG. PLUS, I like to look on the faces of my hunting camp buddies when I leave a few cartridges on the table.

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
I primarily hunt southern whitetails in South Carolina. I shot my first with a 300 RSAUM. The exit hole was the size of a grapefruit. Since then I've switched to 7X57, my favorite, 30-06, and 30-30. They all killed em dead. Use whatever you prefer.

Poor bullet choice. I bought my dad a Rem 700Ti in 300 RSAUM for a Colorado Elk hunt in 2004. It's the only rifle he has used since and has taken plenty of whitetails with it. I do all of the reloading and his SAUM has only been fed with Nosler Partitions or Swift A-frames. Both mushroom quite nicely and have never left a grapefruit-size hole whether the deer was 200 yards away or 20.
Frangible bullets at lower velocities will perform admirably. Drive the same at high impact velocities and they become grenades. Pick the right tool for the right job. SAUM velocities require more stout construction. But you knew that already.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
I have hunted deer/elk in Utah for over 25 years without a magnum. (I hope to draw and elk tag someday and for that I have a 300WSM) But, do people regularly use 300, 338, 375 for deer? How about whitetail? I have killed deer with many calibers, but nothing larger than a 30-06. last year I used a 25-35 on a southern deer tag, and .30US on a cow elk tag.

I dont reload, but are there other advantages to the larger caliber other than weight, recoil, muzzle blast, flinching, cost ...

Some people like magnums. I don't but too each his own. The only time I get annoyed is if I'm at the range next to a guy with magnum sporting a muzzle brake. Other than that, I could care less what they shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
I dont reload, but are there other advantages to the larger caliber other than weight, recoil, muzzle blast, flinching, cost ...

Yes. They are very good for sending Heavy Bullets over l-o-n-g distances with a reduced Time-of-Flight - much better than lesser Cartridges.

But if you Hunt up-close, then the 30-06 and 300WSM you mentioned will do just fine - with the proper Bullets for the Game you are persuing.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

yes, I have noticed a lot better results moving up to a magnum in my 22 Rimfire for deer...

thanks for the suggestion!

When I was 18 I bought my first big game rifle, a Ruger m77 mII 300winmag. I wanted the trajectory of a .270 win, but in .30 cal, so that added up to the 300win. I had shot a lot at that point, had a scholarship to play football, so a thump on the shoulder wasn't the least bit intimidating to me. I also knew that trough college and after that starting a full time job, that I wasn't going to be able to buy a lot of rifles, so I had to get one that would work for everything that I might encounter. For 12yrs I used a .22lr, 12g, or .300winmag for everything I hunted.

My go to load was, and still is, a 180grn Hornady at 2960fps. It has worked great from 7yrds to 370yrds, as long as I don't shoot shoulders, or light/frangible bullets that can wreck a carcass.

Now that I'm more financially capable and have bought some more rifles, I lean toward my .257 Robers for deer, but the 300win still sees action on the long fields from time to time, and I have the utmost confidence in it.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

Some people like magnums. I don't but too each his own. The only time I get annoyed is if I'm at the range next to a guy with magnum sporting a muzzle brake. Other than that, I could care less what they shoot.

I can agree with at least part of that. I don't get ignited by the fact they have a maggie with a brake...but that they are shooting a gun with a brake on a range which has a roof and back walls on it.

Even my own .223 with a BOSS doesn't get shot in those circumstances because I could see the pain on folks faces when it was first fired there.

I know many guys using "magnums" for whitetails, and in every case that I can think of, the shooter/hunter is trying to compensate for an inadequacy in his life.

I have killed deer with calibers ranging from 223 up to 9.3x62, and in every case, the deer died. I have personally never felt that I "needed" a so called magnum caliber to be successful, but whatever floats "your" boat is fine with me.

quote:

Originally posted:
I know many guys using "magnums" for whitetails, and in every case that I can think of, the shooter/hunter is trying to compensate for an inadequacy in his life.

[/IMG]

Oh boy, just what we need: amateur psychology.

A few of you guys still just can't grasp the concept, can you?

Many shooters who use magnums for deer don't use use them because they need them, nor because they are personally inadequate, or any of those other justifications which a few smaller caliber users attribute to them (and apparently like to snidely snear at).

They do it because on a given day they feel like it. Tough concept, guys, but it doesn't need ANY justification.

Why don't you just use what you like in your life, and quit the petty picking at others who select something different?

If you wanna dabble in psychology, maybe you guys should look closer at the kind of people that the textbooks tell us try to enhance their own stature by putting other folks down...

Anyway, enough. I guess you'll never get the picture, so we are wasting our time by explaining it.

Adios for now.

I have taken 4 deer with a 338 RUM. They all dropped at the shot and never moved. The 250 gr PT and AB leaves an exit wound the size of a quarter.

JD338

I'd rather go deer hunting with someone using a 338RUM than a 223 and would think more highly of him as a hunter and a thinking individual. Not wanting to dabble into amateur psychology like AC said, but it seems to me that those using a 223 or any caliber smaller than 243 (for game animals not varmints) are engaging in stunt shooting for their own aggrandizement indicating low self esteem.

Take 2 hunters with the same skills and let them shoot a couple of dozen deer at over the course of 10 or 12 years, give one a 223 and the other a 300 win mag. Some broadside, some quartering and some shots at 200 to 250 yards.

Which one will kill and find more deer? The low self esteem macho acting 223 shooter or the competent adequate caliber shooting 300 win mag shooter?

I stayed out of this until someone accused me of having an inadequacy in my life but that surely pissed me off. If I choose to shoot a deer with my 6.5 rem mag or my 338RUM there is no psychology there but I can guarantee that the deer will die sooner with a 225 gr TTSX at 3100 fps than with a 130 gr Scirrocco at 3100 fps. And probably with less meat damage.

All this politically correct, holier than thou, look at me I only shoot 'em with a bow, you should do what I do, dummycrat BS coming out of some of you is aggravating. Is your purpose to kill a deer cleanly and quickly or to see how little it takes to get the job done???

quote:

Magnum for deer? am i missing something

Up till about five years ago, I managed kill permits for whitetail deer as part of a culling program. Each year from September through the end of May I'd take between ten and twenty deer on the permits which did not include the deer I took on regular hunting licenses.

I used just about every form of weapon including longbows, hand guns, shotguns, and most common centerfire rifles over those years. I went through a period of time when I became very active hunting bears all over the map and began to use this time of shooting deer to vet a rifle I built specifically for hunting bear. This rifle was built around the 375H&H Magnum, with which I became very proficient at shooting as well as I could shoot a 30-06. I kept an ongoing journal of the deer I shot over those years using the different combinations. I quickly discovered, with my own eyes, what others had proclaimed since the invent of the 375H&H, being that it was an outstanding performer on most any game. I found the 375H&H to be the single most effective round on whitetail with shots from near point blank out to several hundred yards. Not only did it prove extremely effective at taking deer down, it did so with minimal meat damage. The more common centerfire rounds used that did little meat damage were no way near as effective at putting deer down on the spot. The more common rounds that were as effective at putting deer down would damage a far greater amount of meat. I learned a bunch over those years, while coming to the conclusion, that in the hands of a rifleman who can handle the recoil, you'd be hard pressed finding a cartridge more effective at killing whitetail within several hundred yards while leaving minimal meat damage than a 375H&H Magnum with the proper load.

So in that context, I cannot dismiss the use of certain magnums when it comes to game the size of deer, especially when you wish to maximize edible meat for the freezer.

Best

GaryVA,
What bullet at what vel. did you find best to use on deer?
Also same question for moose and elk..
Thanks

My dad hunted for whitetails when he was young and every other hunter said he was using to much gun with his 30 06.Magnums take down,straight down, whitetails much more often.More ruined meat ,but less tracking, which on public land is a good thing.Shooting long ranges isn t my favorite thing about magnums.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
I'd rather go deer hunting with someone using a 338RUM than a 223 and would think more highly of him as a hunter and a thinking individual. Not wanting to dabble into amateur psychology like AC said, but it seems to me that those using a 223 or any caliber smaller than 243 (for game animals not varmints) are engaging in stunt shooting for their own aggrandizement indicating low self esteem.

Take 2 hunters with the same skills and let them shoot a couple of dozen deer at over the course of 10 or 12 years, give one a 223 and the other a 300 win mag. Some broadside, some quartering and some shots at 200 to 250 yards.

Which one will kill and find more deer? The low self esteem macho acting 223 shooter or the competent adequate caliber shooting 300 win mag shooter?

I stayed out of this until someone accused me of having an inadequacy in my life but that surely pissed me off. If I choose to shoot a deer with my 6.5 rem mag or my 338RUM there is no psychology there but I can guarantee that the deer will die sooner with a 225 gr TTSX at 3100 fps than with a 130 gr Scirrocco at 3100 fps. And probably with less meat damage.

All this politically correct, holier than thou, look at me I only shoot 'em with a bow, you should do what I do, dummycrat BS coming out of some of you is aggravating. Is your purpose to kill a deer cleanly and quickly or to see how little it takes to get the job done???

x2 Looks like you all almost got Mr. Woods wound up. Great post!!!

X3

Seems to me that the fellow shooting the pop gun is the one trying to prove something. (intro to abnormal pych 101)

WEll anyone with any hunting experience knows you need a magnum to take a deer!

I mean a 500 yd load, with 3500 fps MV and 4000 ft/lbs at the Muzzle is needed or you are not going to be able to kill a thing...

My largest deer in Oregon, was probably 250 to 270 lbs on the hoof.. pretty big for a blacktail..

well fed suburban deer, made strong on Costco Muffins fed to him by all the California retirees in the neighborhood...

It took 2 shots for a MAGNUM to drop him...

First shot just had him kicking.. so I gave a second shot just to ensure the first did it's job...

and What Magnum did I use? a 22 Magnum, Marlin MN 25... 40 grain FMJFN right between the eyes at 100 yds, right in the back yard...

My lightweight rifle is a 300WSM and I use it for blacktail to Roosy elk. For deer I load 150 gr SSTs to 2600 fps or 300 Savage territory. No harsh recoil...because I don't load it hot for deer.

Some here cant grasp the concept of matching the load to the game.

Almost all of my rifles are Magnum. only 1 or 2 aren't.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
WEll anyone with any hunting experience knows you need a magnum to take a deer!

I mean a 500 yd load, with 3500 fps MV and 4000 ft/lbs at the Muzzle is needed or you are not going to be able to kill a thing...

My largest deer in Oregon, was probably 250 to 270 lbs on the hoof.. pretty big for a blacktail..

well fed suburban deer, made strong on Costco Muffins fed to him by all the California retirees in the neighborhood...

It took 2 shots for a MAGNUM to drop him...

First shot just had him kicking.. so I gave a second shot just to ensure the first did it's job...

and What Magnum did I use? a 22 Magnum, Marlin MN 25... 40 grain FMJFN right between the eyes at 100 yds, right in the back yard...

Gosh, Seafire...and here I didn't even know rimfires were legal for shooting deer in Oregon......did you buy a hunting license and a tag?


....and so far I haven't read anyone here in this thread saying magnums were needed for deer, except you. Some said they use them on deer as well as other things, but no-one is saying that nothing else will kill a deer.

So why does that concept bother you so much?

The year before I take my family on safari with me, I'll hunt everything with either a 404J or a 9.3x62. Otherwise, my 7x57, 308, and 270 will get the bulk of my hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted:
I know many guys using "magnums" for whitetails, and in every case that I can think of, the shooter/hunter is trying to compensate for an inadequacy in his life.

[/IMG]

Oh boy, just what we need: amateur psychology.

A few of you guys still just can't grasp the concept, can you?

Many shooters who use magnums for deer don't use use them because they need them, nor because they are personally inadequate, or any of those other justifications which a few smaller caliber users attribute to them (and apparently like to snidely snear at).

They do it because on a given day they feel like it. Tough concept, guys, but it doesn't need ANY justification.

Why don't you just use what you like in your life, and quit the petty picking at others who select something different?

If you wanna dabble in psychology, maybe you guys should look closer at the kind of people that the textbooks tell us try to enhance their own stature by putting other folks down...

Anyway, enough. I guess you'll never get the picture, so we are wasting our time by explaining it.

Adios for now.

Very true AC. This season I plan on using my 7mm mag (in a bean field, literally), and my new muzzle loader. If the Nebraska early season goes well, I might grab a revolver and have some real fun.

I am using what I'm using because I have it and I want to. If I was only worried about being effective, my old SKS would do the trick in many situations.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
X3

Seems to me that the fellow shooting the pop gun is the one trying to prove something. (intro to abnormal pych 101)

+100

Deer, locally a lot of people just hit them with their truck.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Randell:
Deer, locally a lot of people just hit them with their truck.

Very good response
I have done that 3 times in the last 19 years at this address...twice with my Porsche, and most recently with the Toy 4x4. Nice thing about the old Toy, it is made out of real metal. Hit this buck at 55 mph, dead centering him in the front bumper and then running right over him...dented the bumper a bit , but didn't even break any of the grill or damage ANY of the bodywork. Deer was DRT, needless to say....

Now that's real "knockdown" power for deer. Some folks will doubtless probably hold that I was unsporting because I didn't nail this one with the little Porsche too. But my insurance company (State Farm) likes this way better.

Come to think of it, so do I. About $500 (the Deductable) better.

Although I've owned three Toyota 4x4 trucks and have taken deer with one of them quite succesefully, these days I prefer to take the Dodge Magnum. They don't seem to run as far after being hit by the Magnum.

Your mileage might vary.

quote:

Originally posted by Big-foot:
Although I've owned three Toyota 4x4 trucks and have taken deer with one of them quite succesefully, these days I prefer to take the Dodge Magnum. They don't seem to run as far after being hit by the Magnum.

Your mileage might vary.

Well, I likely just have less miles on my Toy 4x4, which is why I have only owned this one of them...for 31 years. I bought this one new in 1979 in Calgary, Alberta, and it still has only a bit over 100-k miles on it.

Unfortunately I am going to have to sell it because of physical problems with my left leg and foot which are making it very difficult to operate the clutch anymore.

Too bad, too. It's all set up for hunting with a spare 25 gallon fuel tank(with gauge), 1-ton overload springs, a Steel-Stream insulated cab-height camper shell with a full interior carpet kit, double bed, interior cabinets, sturdy built-in steel roof rack (I've carried whole 6x6 bull elk in that rack), halogen lights with steel mesh brush protectors of their own, and more. I even had it upgraded engine-wise to a 22-R, but I also kept the old engine which was running perfectly (as a spare).

Anyway, they are great deer cullers for clearing he bottom of the gene pool of those animals which don't seem to understand that running in front of moving vehicles is a bad decision.

And, though "Magnums" probably work a bit better, a guy should treat them just like any thinking man would choose a rifle....use the legal one he finds most convenient for the job that particular day, magnum or not!

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Randell:
Deer, locally a lot of people just hit them with their truck.

That's why I drive a 3/4 ton dodge diesel. I could drive a toyota but I'm afraid it won't kill them as well as the diesel.