We don't need a darn thing, but actions are look down from the shelf and saying, "when's it my turn"?
Classic 70 Mag, thinking of a .280 Dubiel, just to be different using .284 bullets. (already have .276 Dubiel and 7 STW availble)Then after i'm gone somebody can run a reamer in and have an STW
or
.334 OKH Mag with .338 bullets then somebody can punch it out to .340 Weatherby. (agsain just to be different
or
.350 Rigby rimless, just to be different

Any thoughts

How about a .256 Newton? When you're gone some one is sure to punch it out to 6.5/'06

303 Brit left 280 Ross Right
280 Ross
Use 7 rum brass
7 mm bullets
Yes it will be slightly rebated.
By Chuck Hawks


The .280 Ross, introduced in 1906, was one of the early high intensity cartridges. Charles Ross and F.W. Jones created it for use in the Ross straight-pull bolt action rifle.

A military version of the Ross rifle was adopted by the Canadian government and used by Canadian troops in the First World War. The Ross rifle had serious design problems, some of which were never eliminated, and proved both dangerous and unreliable in combat.

The most famous of these defects was its bolt design, which allowed the bolt to be assembled incorrectly. If fired in that condition a catastrophic failure occurred, injuring and often killing the shooter. (For more on the story of the Ross rifle, read "The .280 Ross Rifle, A Fast Shady Lady" by Erin Boyd, which can be found on the Collector's Corner.)

For a time the sporting version of the Ross rifle and its high velocity .280 cartridge became reasonably popular with sportsmen in North America, Europe, and Africa. It gave spectacularly quick kills on cleanly hit CXP2 game animals, much like the later .270 Winchester.

Any cartridge designed for a rifle with fatal flaws is born under a cloud. As one of the very first high intensity cartridges, the .280 Ross was doubly cursed, as bullet technology had lagged behind smokeless powder technology.

Given a large capacity, magnum size case--which the .280 Ross had--even with the relatively fast burning smokeless powders available in 1906 it was possible to drive bullets at speeds beyond their ability to provide reliable terminal performance. In other words, hunting bullets fired at high velocity from .280 Ross rifles would sometimes fragment and fail to penetrate into a vital area.

This was not much of a problem on pronghorn antelope and whitetail deer, but on larger, tougher animals it could be. Particularly if the bullet had to break large bones on its way to the animal's vitals. And particularly if the quarry were a large, dangerous beast such as a grizzly bear, lion, or tiger that might take out its rage on the hunter who had hurt (but not disabled) him.

The .280 Ross was based on a large case of semi-rimmed design. This case measures 2.59" long, which is slightly longer than a .280 Remington case. It has a rim diameter of .556" and a base diameter of .534" (slightly larger than a typical belted magnum case). The diameter at the shoulder is .404", smaller than the .444" of the .280 Rem. This is due to the considerable body taper of the Ross cartridge. The cartridge overall length is 3.50". The .280 Ross used .287-289" diameter bullets, as did the British .275 H&H Magnum, rather than the .284" bullets of German and American 7mm cartridges.

The original factory loads included a 180 grain FMJ spitzer bullet at a claimed muzzle velocity (MV) of 2800 fps, and a 146 grain spitzer hunting bullet at a claimed MV of 3100 fps. I say "claimed," as I understand that these loads actually delivered less velocity than specified. They still traveled right along, however, particularly the 146 grain bullet that may have delivered MVs of 3000 fps. Later factory loads advertised a MV of 2550 fps for a 180 grain bullet, and a MV of 2900 fps for a 140 grain bullet.

The .280 Ross became popular enough to be picked up by both Remington and Winchester, who offered factory loaded ammunition until 1935. These included, I believe, a 150 grain SP bullet at a MV of 2800 fps and muzzle energy (ME) of 2610 ft. lbs. Contemporary British factory loads gave a 160 grain bullet a MV of 2700 fps and ME of 2600 ft. lbs.

The 146 grain hunting bullet used a bronze point, somewhat on the order of the later Remington Bronze Point bullet. Like the Remington Bronze Point and today's plastic tipped bullets, the 146 grain Ross bullet expanded very quickly against light resistance, but unlike modern hunting bullets it did not have a heavy, tapered jacket or bonded core to control that rapid expansion and prevent the bullet from "blowing-up" against heavier resistance.

What with being chambered in rifles that could be assembled incorrectly and kill the shooter, and saddled with early hunting bullets inadequate for the velocity at which they were being fired, the .280 Ross had an understandably checkered career. Many hunters praised the cartridge for its lightning like kills on deer and other light framed game, while some others had bad experiences trying to shoot elk, moose, and heavy African plains game with .280 Ross rifles.

The biggest problems occurred when hunters, impressed by the quick kills on CXP2 game, tried their .280 Ross rifles on dangerous game. Some of these Nimrods ended up bitten, clawed, and occasionally dead when the primitive bullets fired at high velocity failed to get the job done. This, of course, was not the fault of the cartridge, but as word about erratic bullet performance got around, the popularity of the .280 Ross declined.

Probably the last nail in the .280's coffin was the introduction of the .270 Winchester in 1925. The .270 actually delivered velocities in excess of 3100 fps with its 130 grain bullet. That bullet, with the advantage of better technology, was carefully designed to avoid the problems encountered by the .280 Ross. Through research, Winchester was able to develop reliable bullets for their new .270. That bullet evolved into the famous Silvertip, still produced today. It was probably the first good, high velocity hunting bullet to be offered in North American factory loads.

Such bullets were not invented until near end of the .280 Ross' commercial life, when the damage had already been done. It was too late to save the .280 Ross.

There is an interesting little footnote to the history of the .280 Ross cartridge. After World War I a Germany company, Halbe & Gerlich, marketed a cartridge they called the .280 Halger Magnum and provided bolt action, double, and single shot rifles for it.

During the 1930s rifles for the .280 Halger were imported into the U.S. Halbe & Gerlich claimed a MV of 2900 fps with a 180 grain bullet and 3350 fps with a 145 grain bullet, but when .280 Hager cartridges were chronographed in the U.S. the actual velocity was found to be considerably less. The .280 Halger was based on the .280 Ross case but, I believe, used standard 7mm (.284" diameter) bullets.

Boomie -

Who wrote the info you have above on the .280 Ross? Was it you, or someone else?

I wonder, just because it contains mostly documentable facts, but omits some fairly important ones.

For one thing, not all H&H manufactured rifles for the .275 H&H Magnum had .287" or .288" groove diameters. Some, I know from personal experience, had .284" grooves and at least one made by H&H had a .283" groove diameter.

The one I owned with a .283" groove diameter WOULD blow primers with .288" bulleted factory loads. (I did NOT order it with that diameter. I never specified groove diameter in ANY bespoken rifle. That is simply how it was when delivered to me.)

As to the Ross, it was not difficult for Canadian military armourers to modify them so they could NOT be assembled incorrectly, and that was routinely done on the ones in use in the lines during the Great War.

What caused them to fail and be withdrawn was their inability to function reliably under muddy conditions when used with "out of specification" (grossly oversize) British wartime manufactured .303 ammunition. Even the Smellys had to be modified (chambers enlarged & lengthened) to be reliable with that ammo.

The Rosses functioned fine with Canadian made ammo, but the command geniuses in the British War Office grabbed that ammo before the Canadian troops were even in action, and distributed it amongst ALL the units armed with .303s of any type or maker, because they needed it (because their leaders/planners had never envisioned trench warfare, static front lines, and high volume rifle fire for months on end). So, much of that high quality ammo the Rosses required was fired in Smellys instead of the Rosses for which it was shipped.

In the meantime, much of the ammo issued for use in the Rosses was from later (war time) production British manufacture which, frankly, was not even "good" quality and caused grave problems with extraction in the Ross rifle.

Troopers stomping on the straight-pull bolt of the Ross trying to open the action and eject fired out-of-spec cases would cause the action to finally open with great violence. Opening with a 150 pound or heavier human body on top of a boot heel, caused the left rear corners of the multiple locking lugs in the Ross to be battered , and eventually they became sufficiently damaged that both bolt closing and extraction were even more hindered.

Yes, the Ross was a poor choice for war, because designers should count on not having high quality ammo during war conditions.

I know these things because of my readings of official daily dispatches to and from the front and the War Office during my time as V-P of the Canadian Historical Arms Society and the Kings Own Calgary Regiment Military Rifle Association.

BTW, I know this is one of those "dead horse issues" on which there will likely never be universal agreement. But I also know what the historical records of the war show.

Edited to add" Sorry, I missed noticing in your post that Chuck Hawkes wrote that as an article.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
How about a .256 Newton? When you're gone some one is sure to punch it out to 6.5/'06

already in use. good idea however