Really folks, I was just wondering what kind of quality control is in place at the plant when the workers know full well that their jobs will fold at the end of March and they are not happy about it. This question is hypothetical as hell, but it sure crossed my mind. It's not that I am in the market for a Model 70 produced after word got out that the plant is on the chopping block. I was just wondering. If it were me, I'd do the very best job I could do, right up the last second, of the last day, of my job. Tom Purdom

Like I posted before, Ultra Light Arms, Kimber and Charles Daly all came back from the dead. I can't see a company like Winchester being down for long. I agree they should continue to make excellent products to sweeten the pot for investers looking to unload money.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
Like I posted before, Ultra Light Arms, Kimber and Charles Daly all came back from the dead. I can't see a company like Winchester being down for long. I agree they should continue to make excellent products to sweeten the pot for investers looking to unload money.

NOt to mention Savage, and lets not forget... Remington is not swimming in a sea of financial bliss either!

seafire

Winchester is not a company, and Winchester brand firearms will still be made.

The New Haven plant only makes three firearms: Model 70, Model 94, and Model 1300. All other Winchester brand firearms are made in Europe (FN plants in Belgium and Portugal) and Japan (by Miroku Firearms under contract).

I say again, Winchester is not a company. Just a brand.

quote:

I say again, Winchester is not a company. Just a brand.

Been that way for awhile...albeit, Miroku and FN make pretty nice stuff.

I looked at a wholesale company's inventory, only the '06 and 243 were in stock on the SS Featherweight.

The 6.5x55, 7/08, etc all sold out. This was not the case not long ago so I imagine there was some buying out of 'fear' and I agree, just like Colt, there are changes but the 'brand' has to be worth enough to someone for it to continue somewhere.

I would not buy a new Winchester at this time unless the price was very low. First of all the one they made in 2002 had many defects that were fundimental. That rifle was not a good deal and quite a problem. Second is that when they close will you still have a new gun warrantee? I would buy a Ruger now or if your looking upscale then a Kimber.

I talked to one of our dealers up here this morning, they have sold 4 m70's today. I had pretty much given up on M70's, the last two I had were just not accurate rifles, a model 70 carbine made in the late 80's and a supergrade 264 mag made in 2001.
Col Whelan said"only accurate rifles are interesting", these were both worse than boring.

Hard to say what the workers will do after this news, but I understand much of the work has been from subcontractors, anyway.

Contrary to others' reports about bad quality, I found the M70 Featherweight 6.5x55 that I bought in 2003 to be quite good. The metal appears to be straight and finished nicely, the bolt throw is smooth, and the rifle is accurate enough for my purposes, i.e., an inch five-shot groups at 100 yards, with tailored hunting loads. The trigger needed work, of course, but is now excellent.

The one exception to this is the really poor inletting of the factory wooden stock - it's done crookedly. Matt Williams tells me that these came from Italy, FWIW.

It was my first "Winchester," and I'd not hesitate to buy another. If it turned out badly, I'd sell it, but I expect it will be fine.

Jaywalker

Quality control or no, I refuse to pay an exhorbitant premium for a new Winchester M 70 or 94, just because they claim they're going out of business soon! I'll buy a CZ instead - or an old Mannlicher Schoenauer, if the Winchesters get much over 1K!!

I've got one of the often derided push feed, blind magazine, plastic stocked M70s made for Wal-Mart. (Similar to an old 670, in Tupperware.) Got it in January 1999, I believe, or perhaps the previous month. Nice, pretty rifle with a smooth action, great balance and feel, and this 7mm Remington Magnum one will shoot 3/4" groups consistently. Not a thing wrong with it.

I'm sorry to see that plant close down, and those workers get laid off. Maybe someone will buy the plant and put it back in operation. Sounds like it's a tough proposition financially to keep it going, though.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Quality control or no, I refuse to pay an exhorbitant premium for a new Winchester M 70 or 94, just because they claim they're going out of business soon! I'll buy a CZ instead - or an old Mannlicher Schoenauer, if the Winchesters get much over 1K!!

I'll give that +1

quote:

I'm sorry to see that plant close down, and those workers get laid off. Maybe someone will buy the plant and put it back in operation. Sounds like it's a tough proposition financially to keep it going, though.

SOmeone buying the plant is meaningless. Olin owns the trademarks and Herstal owns the design. Only a fool would pay licenses for both.

Being a lover of the model 70 and left handed I can not decide which is worse losing the mod 70 or losing another left handed rifle..

HP Shooter,

Why do you think Herstal owns the design? It seems unlikely to me - after all the design is, what, 70 years old? They, or USRAC, likely own the CNC tapes USRAC used to run the machines, and that should be worth something, I think (though I've heard from some folks who think not).

The M70 is special to us, but recreating (reverse-engineering) it doesn't sound like rocket science to me. The M76 Dakota and the M99 indicate it can be done in various versions.

Personally, I think someone will do it. I suspect it'll have to be somone who already has a firearms marketing and distribution arm, but without a long arm component.

Can anyone say "Smith & Wesson?"

As you noted, it could be the "Winchester Model 70," or something with neither in the name. There's a market for it. OTOH, it could the "CZ American..."

I'm hoping for Marlin's entry into this. They have a history of good quality and understand the American long arms market.

Jaywalker

I looked at FN-herstal,s web site a few days back, and they were marketing a series of Model 70 based sniper rifles. I have been told that the model 70 actions have been built BY FN in I believe north Carolina, although I am not sure.
I don't like seeing american jobs go over seas, but a model 70 with the FN logo on it would not decipont me to much, evan if they mover broduction to belgum ...tj3006

All this Winchester mania is making me feel better. I bought a NIB .257 Roberts M70 XTR Featherweight, circa 1984 vintage, this past Fall. It has given me nothing but trouble, however, it IS a Winchester M70, so I guess I now have a keeper.
LLS

Amazing, I visit Gunbrokers every day or so looking for unique left hand rifles. Last week there would always be about 50 Winchester offerings. Today I think I seen 3, and one of them was an action I was auctioning. The dealers pushed there prices up a $100 on current inventory. I ordered a LH 30 06 Sporter the day Winchester announced there closing of the plant from Buds Guns. Be interesting to see if they honor there deal now. They havent shipped it yet and it has been a week.

I just decided to buy a Coyote in 223 WSSM. Do they stop this rifle too?

Burkhard

quote:

Originally posted by Burkhard:
I just decided to buy a Coyote in 223 WSSM. Do they stop this rifle too?

Burkhard

Yes

I bought a mod 70 featherweight 300WSM and am going to buy a 270 featherweight,I have a deposit on one.I just wanted to have a couple american made Winchesters before they are gone.I have many rifles to hunt with,these will be safe queens.Drop-Shot

1: "winchester" is not dead
2: the factory that closed does not make model 70s (those are made in SC)
3: should fn herstal decide to no longer make these rifles, they will be in violation of their licensing agreement
4: someone would then pickup that license to make the "winchester model 70"

and, if you doubt any of this, go to
wwww.winchester.com ... "winchester" doesn't "make" guns.. they license that right out


do you mind stopping thet panicly BS?
jeffe

Jeffe, every Model 70 I have seen says "made in New Haven, CT".

And how does being a brands licensee obligate someone to actually make and sell the product? Do you have access to the Olin/USRAC license contract? If you do, we'd all love to be able to read it.

Jeff, I don't know about the lisence agreement but part of the union contract is that the New Haven plant and that local are to be the only ones to build the Model 70.

Not sure if this is splitting hairs but on my recent purchases the barrels are labeled as being made in New Haven but nothing on the action. The box simply says made in the USA.

Let's review...
FN Herstal (USRAC) pays through the noses to winchester to make the model 70

"New haven" is the HQ site, or was, for local operations.

quote:

U.S. Repeating Arms Company is formed and continues manufacturing Winchester brand rifles and shotguns in New Haven, Connecticut, under license from Olin Corporation.

Which doesn't mention SC..

of course my dodge is "american made"... NOTH american made

the model 70 is the bes selling winchester named gun

FN offers a highly accurized m70 with the US actions.

the model 70 is X% of total revenue, and THE premire brand name recognition.


and FN decides, in a cost saving measure, to stop making them...


You know, GM read teh reviews, and stopped making its LOWEST selling model, the Oldsmobile...

but Chevy and Caddy (and Saturn) keep the brand recognition coming....


Yeah, i think winchester is going to abandon it's premire brand name recognition, and go focus on the "other" things they make under US rac...

and other than the m94, what are those, exactly?


Taken in that light, it's actually ridiculous and rather funny...


jeffe

Jeffe -

It is interesting that the news reports indicate that the plant closing will end production of the Model 70 and USRAC has not contradicted that, if in fact you are correct and they will continue by production in S. Carolina.

I hope you are right and in any event I hope that someone will keep making them, particularly the Classic action, maybe with even better quality control.

Well, I just bought one in a standard caliber, i.e., 270 Winchester, for right at "suggested retail." Admittedly, two weeks ago I wouldn't have paid that much, but it's nowhere near "an exorbitant premium," IMO.

OTOH, a local gunshop or two near me still has some Classic WSM models. USRAC touts the huge success of these models; I wonder how much of that was because folks couldn't find "standard" calibers to buy...

Jaywalker

I had some free time yesterday and visited a few local gun stores. All the stores except the big chains like Wal Mart and Sportsman Warehouse already repriced all current inventory with prices about $150 higher than normal.

A friend has a small local gun shop. He brought in three Model 70s in 325 WSM. They all sold in a morning. Every other Model 70 he had sold within the last week. It reminds me of the people who rush to buy toilet paper around here every time it snows!

Toilet paper when it snows? What!

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by fireman:
Jeff, I don't know about the lisence agreement but part of the union contract is that the New Haven plant and that local are to be the only ones to build the Model 70.

Until 2008.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by fireman:
Jeff, I don't know about the lisence agreement but part of the union contract is that the New Haven plant and that local are to be the only ones to build the Model 70.

Until 2008.

Yep, sorry I didn't completete thought there.

Jeffe, I'm sure you have some good points. This is probably a way for them to cut their overhead costs,pensions,taxes building costs,replacing machines etc. They will move the completet production to SC or all of it willl be done in Japan. Either there is no doubt that this is the end of the New Haven built Winchester.

Bought a left hand Feather Weight in 270 WSM today brand new. The price was less than the last time I looked at them. Not wild about short mags but thought I should get a Feather Weight, they only offer Feather Weights lh in the short mag cals.
I have four M-70's from 06 to 375 H&H they are all accurate, I am sad to think they won't be made anymore.

I purchased a 70 sporter in 300 Remington Ulta Magnum that was unopened in factory carton. I got it for $599.00 +tax. I also put an 1895 winchester on hold, it is .270 winchester. It has been sitting on the shelf for several years, but still new. It is $745.00.

The M70 Actions were made in SC but final assemblywas still performed in the New Haven plant.

HP,

It is standard practice with licensing agreements that a certain number of units will be made at x license dollers per unit. This is why there is no longer a Coleman brand of folding trailers. Fleetwood manufacturing, who made the Coleman brand for the last 15 years, was not producing or paying for the annual production figures agreed to by them and Coleman Licensing. A long protracted legal battle ensued and there probably will never be a Coleman Brand of folding trailers ever again.

I don't think that the future is so bleak for the M70 and M94. These designs are way to valuable too Olin. I would be certain that the design rights to the pre-64 M70 and push feed M70 belong to Olin as they were designed when Olin was still in the Firearms game. Same for the M94. As for the newer M70 incarnets who knows.

This reminds me of the S$W frenzy of the 70's.

Go waste your $$$ on a Winchester, the Herstal Co. only has 1 year left on the Winchester name then it reverts back to OLIN.

There is more to this then just closing a 60 man plant in anti gun CT.

I don't think my $$$ is wasted on a Winchester.

Big Mo.
You didn't.