.

Its hard to beat a Browning.

Layoffs

Gander collapsing was just the tip-off.

Well let's see...

1) the news article specifically says manufacturing is not being effected

2) You are making a big assumption that the gun shop owner has accurate information.

3) If the "suspension" of the American line is true, what information exists that even warrants speculation of Ruger going back to the 77

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
If this is true and if it is because their market penetration has decreased it is because of one simple fact !

The shooting public has wised up to the fact that Ruger has been producing accuracy inferior products ! The 77 is a fantastic concept but as a whole they are not out the box accurate ! very hit and miss !

There is no excuse for any gun producer to market guns that are not sub MOA capable out of the box !

Savage which for years was seen as a inferior gun suddenly produced highly accurate, really cheap rifles ! Weatherby slapped their brand on a Howa and again, cheap and out the box accurate !

Tikka has exploded on to the gun scene with relatively inexpensive rifles in the T3 series which are very very accurate without having to aftermarket accurize them !

Of the half dozen Ruger 77 rifles I have owned through the years all are sub MOA

My two Ruger Americans stack bullets like no other rifles I own!!!

2017 second highest sales ever.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2...inue-on-path-to.html

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:


Savage which for years was seen as a inferior gun suddenly produced highly accurate, really cheap rifles ! !

Savage invented this whole segment in the 1950s. They survived on accuracy and price point. They designed a rifle that didn't require a lot of hand fitting. They continue evolving the manufacturing process to mimic what is going on with gunsmiths to stay relevant and a value leader. Customer bedding became with the Accustock. Trigger jobs became the user adjustable Accutrigger. Now everyone is copying their designs and offering value rifles.

Both of my M77's are MOA or better. Every year or so, I check the tightness of the action screws with my torque driver. The front screw on my older rifle (a 358 Win) needed tightening only once. If memory serves, it was the second year and the rifle is now 6 years old. The screws are easy to get to and it is not a big deal to check them. I pretty much consider the process part of my normal maintenance.

quote:

Best year ever ? Ok then why lay off people and why stop producing certain lines ? Why this bulletin sent out to retail outlets ?

Alf,

Could be several reasons to reduce the workforce.

Corporations are in the business of maximizing profits. If you have excess staff in certain areas, you reduce them to maximize profits.

As far as stopping producing lines? What factual information do you have?

Your first post says the retailer "informed" you.

Did he just tell you?

Did he have a bulletin? What did the bulletin actually say?

or did the gun shop owner just "hear" this from someone else?

There could be 1/2 dozen reasons to "suspend" production. Maybe Ruger is modifying a minor element of the design? Maybe Ruger is performing line maintenance? Maybe Ruger received a large order for some other product and they need the line capacity for something else?

For someone who borders on pedantic behavior when it comes to the proper use of physics or scientific terms; you seem to have a marked disregard for being judicious when it comes to the extension of logic as you seem to be speculating quite heavily based on a limited set of information, as opposed to facts.

Your previous posts, would seem to indicate some disdain for certain US firearms manufactures.

So why not just come out and say "I hate Ruger?" or "I hate Remington?" as opposed to taking what appears to be a statement by gun shop owner and turning it into unsubstantiated speculation.

I haven't bought a new rifle in several years and probably won't be buying one in the future, but should that change I will be looking at what Ruger has to offer, new or used.

I have owned more Ruger rifles than any other brand and have never had any problems with any of them.

I have found their accuracy acceptable as long as I loaded them with the bullet and powder they liked.

It seems to me that with the temporary reprieve the gun industry has received with Republicans in control of government, gun sales have dropped due to the lack of gun control fears. I can certainly see how production of a lot of model lines could be suspended, as sales are down and the market seems relatively flooded. However, suspending production may only be temporary. The American bolt action center fire rifle line would seem to be to good of a thing to do away with all together. One could look to the rem 788 and Mount a counter argument, but market forces were different when the 788 died. I think the Ruger American still has a bright future. I don’t own one, but I’ve loaded for a friends 308 and it was a good shooter.

ALF:

I couldn't agree more with you on the angle screw of the M77; if it was so great, others would copy it (patent has expired) but in fact, no one has. The story back in the day was that the angled screw would pull the recoil lug into the mortise, which really points out the obvious fact that if it was properly bedded, it wouldn't need the angled screw, and if it wasn't properly bedded, it would flex the action. I never understood why so many gun writers back in the day waxed on about this set up.

I have owned two M77s. One was a .338 Win Mag, and while I did shoot a grizzly with it, it was not very accurate. I sold it and bought a Rem 700 which has been very accurate.
Ironically, my other M77 is a full stocked .243; it slings 58 gr VMax bullets at 3800 fps under 1 MOA.

Savage and Browning make super accurate out of the box rifles, with the edge going to Savage in my opinion. The weak link with Savage rifle is that crappy extraction system; any slightly hot load causes the extractor to pop over the rim. Sharp Shooter Supply makes a replacement kit, but their customer service leaves a bit to be desired. Someone needs to fill this gap...

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Best year ever ? Ok then why lay off people and why stop producing certain lines ? Why this bulletin sent out to retail outlets ?

Alfie ...
the sky isn't falling
ruger has ROUTINELY stopped taking orders and shifted production resources since 2008
they are restarting at least some of the m77 lines, due to popular demand...

but WHY do you, the biggest ruger hater in this forum, care? you wouldn't have a ruger/375ruger, you obviously couldn't care less....

but, alfie, have you ever heard of "the google" -- it's amazing .. you just put in the nouns from the sentence you wish to learn more about, and it finds links to places YOU can choose to read ...

I do not really care if a rifle shoots 1 MOA or 1.5 MOA. I will not buy or hunt with a cheap, plastic, inferior, UGLY, push feed rifle.

Life is too short to hunt with a ugly rifle. I have never not missed an animal throwing lead at it with a 375 Ruger African.

Head shot a beaver in the middle of the big pound with the RSM 458 Lott. More than enough accuracy.

All the people bitching about ruger should just pony up the $$$ and buy a blaser. You will get everything desired for much more $$$.

Otherwise expect ruger to supply it core us market that is very competitive and price sensitive.

There is no real demand for higher dollar price crf rifles - cz is one company moving from 550 to 527.

Mauser Sauer $600 price point plastic rifles says it all.

Mike

I would hardly call the discontinuation of 59 (19 of which were stainless) variants of the American line the equivalent of the Ruger brand disappearing given the American line appears to have 54 variations left of which ~25 are new models.

Perhaps Ruger, is running a good business by discontinuing model variants that aren't selling as well as they would like.

I don't know about the American, its not my kind or rifle, but the Ruger 77 African is the best thing out since sliced white bread and Ive owned about half a dozen of them and they have all shot bugholes...Your post relates your personal experiences with one model, not the company as a whole.. I also can only attest to another model and not the company as a whole, I suggest you try the African, its your kind of gun, its the most English of any American gun todate..Give it a try..Everyone Ive talked to has had good luck with it..leave that plastic stainlees steel stuff to the other guys Alfie!!

purposely ignorant?
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RGR?ltr=1

https://finance.yahoo.com/news...y-inc-224500756.html

or just an ax to grind...

alfie, old son ... you hate ruger and are something of a luditte ... why you stirring the pot?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I don't know about the American, its not my kind or rifle, but the Ruger 77 African is the best thing out since sliced white bread and Ive owned about half a dozen of them and they have all shot bugholes...Your post relates your personal experiences with one model, not the company as a whole.. I also can only attest to another model and not the company as a whole, I suggest you try the African, its your kind of gun, its the most English of any American gun todate..Give it a try..Everyone Ive talked to has had good luck with it..leave that plastic stainlees steel stuff to the other guys Alfie!!

I concur with almost you said Ray, but I love SS and never had an issue with them. Never tried out the American and never will.

I've shot rifles that have the front screw perpendicular to the action and one M77 with the diagonal screw. The 77 was made in '77 in 270 win and I would shoot targets with it at 300 yards, 10 shot group 5 of which were within 1" the other five within 2.5", which I didn't consider bad for a sporter of the era. At the time I heard that Ruger was using barrels supplied by Shaw, which were supposed to be economy barrels with suspect variations in barrel to barrel consistency, but mine was fine.

The reason you can’t find one is that they sale so well.

CDNN sold everyone they had. I have no use for the new version with the muzzle brake. But the African without brake has sold well.

Perfect no. I had to have my two bolt actions bedded so that stocks would not split. But I could not be happier with them.

The American series. I can only hope it dies. But, that is what the world wants/needs.

Ruger has always built what people want. Things come and go in the line. Ruger unlike the rest of them have never went bankrupt.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The reason you can’t find one is that they sale so well.

CDNN sold everyone they had. I have no use for the new version with the muzzle brake. But the African without brake has sold well.

Perfect no. I had to have my two bolt actions bedded so that stocks would not split. But I could not be happier with them.

The American series. I can only hope it dies. But, that is what the world wants/needs.

Ruger has always built what people want. Things come and go in the line. Ruger unlike the rest of them have never went bankrupt.

I bought pre muzzle brake paddle stock - 2 Alaskan and an African - best left handed rifle for the money.

Ruger under old man bill ruger was a disfunctional public company. It did not go bankruptcy but old man ruger disliked debt. He also did not care about the stock price and had a fascination with paying a dividend even when liquidity was tight.

There is no mass consumer demand for wood and steel crf bolt guns. It’s now a niche market in a world of ar and pistols.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Well there you go now, try and find a 375 African of 416 in Canada ! Even the importers list them but have none in stock and indicate they dont know when they will get any again!

There are two guide guns in 300 Win sitting in gunshops in my immediate vicinity...... they are not selling, no one will touch them ? Why ?
Also a M77 Hawkeye predator in 6.5 Creed, same story no takers ?

Don't mistake distain with a hate for a brand, far from it ! I just have not any luck with their rifles !

I keep on being drawn to them and each time I come away disappointed. Every time I pull the trigger on one I come away with a bad taste in the mouth.

Over years I have tried both M77's and No 1's with varying success.

I love my Redhawk and Super blackhawk ! The Redhawk is awesome awesome awesome !

Two No 1 RSI's in 7x57 minute of orange ! Very elegant little rifle, but for a 7x57 that's not acceptable !
Model 77 RSI in 30-06 minute of orange ! I traded it to a very good friend for a Brno 8x60 his sons shoot it. Apart from a lack of Sub MOA accuracy it has a nasty kick for a 30-06

Brand new Model 77 guide gun in 338 Win...... minute of orange.

A good friend has a 7mm Rem mag in a old model 77, shoots sub MOA

Another buddy has a 308 on one of those paddle stocked 77's will shoot holes in coins at 100 using Milsurp ammo !

So on to the American, dont have one but the ones I have seen in action at the range do very very well, dont like the cheap stock and magazine setup but they sure shoot straight.

Ruger is a public company - one can pull up its 10k and 10q and get on its quarterly earnings call. Will provide a lot of information on units sold, pipeline ect.

I have 30/06 that is accurate but worked on by Wayne at ahr.

3 375 all accurate

1 Number 1 30/06 that is super accurate

1 Number 1 6.5 that is 2 moa with factory ammo

1 Number 1 300 H&H getting set up

If I wanted a super accurate single shot I should buy a k-95 blaser. Ruger Number 1 are touch and go and it is a risk I knew buying one.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Someone suggested I Google Ruger and that Rugers sales have been best ever ?

Why Sturm, Ruger Stock Sank 13% on Thursday
The second quarter was an earnings misfire.

" Rich Smith (TMFDitty) Aug 3, 2017 at 1:45PM
What happened
Shares of gunsmith Sturm, Ruger (NYSE:RGR) stock are down 10.4% as of 11:40 a.m. EDT, after clawing their way back out of a 13.3% hole earlier in the morning.

So what
Sturm, Ruger released its fiscal second-quarter 2017 earnings news yesterday evening after close of trading. The company reported earning $0.57 per share on sales of $131.9 million. That doesn't sound so bad without context, but here's the thing: Analysts had been looking for Ruger to report $1.11 per share in profits, so the company missed Wall Street's target by nearly 50%.

Even worse, sales were down 22% from last year's $167.9 million, and profits were off by more than 50% from the $1.22 a share that Ruger had earned by this time last year.

So cue the puns about an earnings "misfire."

Now what
Bad as this news was, it could get worse. Sturm, Ruger CEO Christopher J. Killoy blamed "unfavorable de-leveraging of fixed manufacturing costs due to the decline in production volumes" for the declines. In other words, it costs money to buy machines to make guns, and if those machines aren't run at full capacity, it's hard to make back the money spent on them -- that is, earn a profit. With sales down, Ruger wasn't able to operate at full capacity, hence it didn't earn as much profit.

Now here's where the news turns really bad for Ruger. According to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System, applications to purchase guns declined only 7% in the first half of this year, but Ruger says that its sales were down 22% in Q2, and its "sell-through" of guns from retailers to gun buyers declined 13%. What this seems to imply is that the gun market is bad, but Ruger's share of the gun market is even worse -- and it's losing market share to its rivals.

Accenting the point, Killoy noted that "many of our competitors" appear to be engaged in "aggressive price discounting and lucrative consumer rebates." In so doing, he glossed over the reputational damage done by a big recall of Sturm, Ruger's own Mark IV pistols -- an unforced error on the company's part. Regardless, the conclusion Ruger seems to be drawing is clear: If the company wants to stop shedding market share, it may be forced to cut prices and offer bigger rebates to match its competitors.

And that could be as bad news for Sturm, Ruger stock's future profits as the second quarter was already. "

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/r...index=&drilldown=off


https://finance.yahoo.com/char...bHRpcGxpZXIiOjF9fV19

You either really don't know the firearms industry or you have a personal ax to grind with ruger.

Neither of which reflects on ruger or its products just on you.

Mike

I do believe that Ruger is discontinuing most of the American line. However, they are releasing a lot of new models that now use AI, AR, and Mini 30 style magazines. I just think it was a redesign of the American line in favor for magazines that have less problems overall.

They also released a couple new pistols maybe retooling the lines to make them.

What other firearms mfg. in the U.S. sells more firearms than Ruger?? The 77 action is a modern day manufactured classic American bolt rifle. Obviously the American and similar rifles offered by other mfg.'s is designed to meet the demand for those not able or willing to spend more money. It's called marketing strategy. If it does not work, take another approach, it's not complicated.

With just a moments thought I can think of three US companies that produce what I've considered functional rifles/guns at entry level/reasonable prices: Ruger, Savage, Mossberg. I meet owners of each and each is generally satisfied with their purchase. which one is better? That's a Ford/Chevy/Dodge question if ever was one.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
I do believe that Ruger is discontinuing most of the American line. However, they are releasing a lot of new models that now use AI, AR, and Mini 30 style magazines. I just think it was a redesign of the American line in favor for magazines that have less problems overall.

This, mazazines on RAR rifles will now be able to use AI mags.

Alf,
Rugers brilliant bean counters with money as their soul purpose designed the American, an atrocias bastard of a rifle as Ive ever seen..They assume cheap is the way to sell guns and like Win. if they keep that up they too will be filing bankruptsy from time to time as did Winchester...

The African can be purchased about anywhere in the USA today, Maybe you could have your dealer order one for you..Midway, Grafs, has them Im pretty sure, as does Cabellas...Since they are the latest or near that, they will not have shaw barrels, and their new barrels are real good it seems to me (with the African at least)

Ray:

I believe Wilson is the original barrel supplier to Ruger. Did they then switch to Shaw?

I thought pretty highly of my Ruger American .308 while shooting it at the range. It was pretty accurate (MOA) with the first couple loads I tried. Not bad for a rifle I bought for under $300.,

After my Kodiak Island blacktail hunting experience last thanksgiving week and the following week, I will never own another Ruger American.

The American doesn't have a locking bolt. Going through alders with the gun over my shoulder, an alder branch would occasionally grab the bolt and either partially or completely open it. That problem could have been easily solved with a little bungee cord, rubber band or something similar, but why bother. Other hunters without locking bolts were experiencing the same issue.

That was only part of the problem. I had a great opportunity at the best buck I saw the entire trip, it was under 150 yards when I first saw him. I set my backpack down for a solid rest, quickly ranged the deer and set up for a shot.

I don't hunt with a bullet in the chamber under normal hunting conditions, so I quickly opened the bolt and racked it back to chamber a round. Surprisingly, my bolt went flying out from the back of the action approximately 3 feet into the snow(what the hell?). Quickly digging into the snow I found the bolt and cleaned the snow off it. Meanwhile this buck has been on the move, higher up the mountain.

I inserted the bolt back into the rifle, it picked up a round and I tried to chamber it. The bolt wouldn't turn down and lock up(again, what the hell?). I pulled the round back, and tried again, no luck. My first thought was, the bolt lugs are iced up. The bolt pulled straight back out again without pressing the bolt release. I inspected it, saw nothing, blew it off and tried again. Same problem. Now I'm thinking my reloads have a problem and must not be sized properly, even though I cycled and chambered every round before I left on the trip. I tried to cycle every round in the magazine once I installed the bolt, same problem and I had to be careful because the bolt stop wasn't doing it's job when I would extract the round. Meanwhile the buck is still moving up and away.

I fiddled with the bolt, reloaded the magazine and this time the bolt closed. The buck had gone over the top by now. Luckily a smaller buck appeared from where the first one came out. I set up, shot and killed it (yay)!

After returning to the lodge that evening, I inspected the rifle. The roll pin in the bolt release button had drifted out far enough to render the bolt stop/release useless. I tapped it back in, problem solved. I continued hunting with it for the remainder of the trip. I did shoot a second deer on the trip, but now my confidence in the gun was no more.

Another issue I have with the American is the cheap, plastic, removable magazine. It felt cheap in normal temperatures at the range. In sub-freezing temperatures it really felt like junk and I had issues locking it into place quite often without just slamming it with my palm.

The thought that haunted me after that day was, if the bolt stop had failed when an alder decided to grab and open the bolt, I would have been left with a useless rifle. I doubt I would have ever recovered the bolt in the snow unless I had felt or heard it fall out at the time.

The two biggest lessons I learned on this hunt are:

1-never own a bolt-action hunting rifle that doesn't have a locking bolt.

2- I am tired of and done with flying to hunting destinations with full sized gun cases. I am now completely sold on take-down rifles as travelling guns. The first one I plan to acquire is the Browning BLR Lightweight stainless, laminate '81.

I hope they will see the light and begin to chamber it in .375 Ruger. (let's all begin a campaign to Browning for them to chamber it in the .375 Ruger). Between that and a takedown blr in a smaller, lighter, short-action chambering would be the perfect 2 gun traveling set.

Another thing I realized is why Alaskans prefer short barrels

If I buy any more budget rifles, it will probably be either a Tikka or Howa.

WALMART TOOK tons of guns out of their stores .Weatherby use to make the vanguard just for Wal-Mart .They finally quit doing that .I.bought one from wally world was terrible bolt stop broke rust bomb sent it back to.weatherby they fixed it .The Ruger American was made for the cheaper gun market when oboma was in power bad the ecomany was crap .Trump goes in gun sales go back down and ecomany is back.up .The Ruger American would make Bill Ruger flip in his grave it's cheap built and not a classy rifle like the Ruger 77.I bought one of the last stainless Ruger 77 338 win mags made .It's coated with some kinda coating.that rough as heck .I had an earlier one smooth as silk .Ruger keeps making cheaper guns and turned into a Wal-Mart gun company but Wal-Mart pulled out of the game for the most part and the gun market for hunting Is flooded .I hope Ruger changes back for the better and quits making cheap guns that are not representative of the Ruger name .I have bought Rugers 45 years but I.don't buy the cheap rugers !

That's a bummer Alf, every given any thought to becoming a smuggler or perhaps moving to Montana? I couldn't live where I wasn't free.

I do have to declare, just another reason to stick with our old standby the Mauser 98, nothing yet compares...

DeadiBob,
A Tika or a Howa, damn son you just jumped out of the skillet into the fire!!

Ray, I've never had a failure with a Tikka or Howa. For a budget NEW rifle, that can be found with a street price under $500, I would like to hear your recommendations. Big green is off the table. I will never buy a new Remington for several reasons.

Alf,
aha, you ran over the moose and claimed a Tika kill! gotcha!

Bob,
All in fun, if you guys like a Tika and they are inexpensive then good for you..I don't like the look or the action, just not my idea of a good rifle, I and inexpensive rife would put my money these days on the Ruger African, and the Ruger Internaionals, but that's what makes a horse race and the reason we have Coors light and Bud light, Fords and chevys.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Alf,
aha, you ran over the moose and claimed a Tika kill! gotcha!

Bob,
All in fun, if you guys like a Tika and they are inexpensive then good for you..I don't like the look or the action, just not my idea of a good rifle, I and inexpensive rife would put my money these days on the Ruger African, and the Ruger Internaionals, but that's what makes a horse race and the reason we have Coors light and Bud light, Fords and chevys.

With all due respect Ray, I have zero Chevys