The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Is the short magnum fad over yet?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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What are the opinions from the field now that they've been out a few years? Did they meet expectations? Was the weight savings from the short action worth it? Has ammo been an issue? ___________________________________________________________________________________________ | ||
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I don't think the "fad" is over and may never be completely, but it is for me. | |||
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I never really payed attention to it. I'm just a little to old school for it I think? Extreme Custom Gunsmithing LLC, ecg@wheatstate.com | |||
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The answer is no, since Ruger just came out with their short mags, and Winchester is coming back with rifles offered in the WSM cartridges. | |||
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No, I don't think the fad is over and Ruger is releasing their own now that are supposed to be the latest and greatest. Honestly, Remington's SAUM rounds haven't been nearly as successful as Winchesters WSMs. The .270 and .300 WSMs have been fairly successful and I think they'll be staying, all the local shops carry rifles and ammo around here so they're accessible, they perform well, and there is no major downside to them. ________  "...And on the 8th day, God created beer so those crazy Canadians wouldn't take over the world..." | |||
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Nah there hear to stay for a bit I'd say. The wildcats being created by necking up and down is really just getting in swing where I am. I see more hunters using them all the time as seasons go by. Lot of 270 and 300wsm's in use, and 6.5, 338, 375, and 450wsms being chambered in my local gunshop. The 450's are a real woodshammer.... Dave If Accurate Rifles are Interesting.........I've Got Some Savage Rifles That Are Getting Mighty Interesting..... | |||
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Its not a fad it is a very good improvement If you own a long action mag you don't need it...but if you don't Let see I can have a shorter, stiffer action that consumes less powder and get the same than a longer heavier rifle... Hey keep your 300 win mag.... If I was going to own 1 rifle for NA including the big bears it would be a 300 WSM Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My buddy's and my WSM wildcats in 6.5 and .338 have become our staple rifle for use in the Rockies and on the plains. I think that the WSMs will be around just because the case does so much for the short action. .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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I sold my 300wsm and got a 280 ackley built. I love the look of the 280s case but i grabbed one of the loaded 300wsm rounds i kept and i like it more now then when i had it. I'll deffinatley be getting another WSM, not a 300 though. | |||
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Weight savings worth it?? Never considered it myself, and I own several. Ammo an 'issue'? Never Ever, more available than some of my old classics some times. As far as expectations, yeah they defintitely have for me. I think they lend themselves better to lighter weight for caliber pills, just me, but they have been very accurate for me, and easy to load for. Brass lasts very well IME, and they generate great velocities for me, in line with my expectations. If you look at brass from others than the innovators of a particular cartridge, in this case Winchester, I feel that is a good indication of how a cartridge is being received, and there are several aftermarket brass sources for the WSM's. Just another thing I suppose, but I like em, and think they are here for a good while. | |||
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I agree, I don't think it is completely over, but it is for me...Owned a 300 WSM and a 270 WSM that did nothing for me...Went back to a 257 Weatherby and a 280 AI. | |||
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DEFINE SHORT MAGNUM.... do you mean shorter than 2.85" cases, 2.5", 2.2"? 2.1" or 2.00? all the "short" cases .. 300win, 7rem, 338 win, 458 win, 264 win... yeah, that "fad" is over... or the 2.1" like the 350 or 6.5 rem... or 284?yeah, that "fad" is over or those shorter cases that duplicate an older, and adequate round? like the 500 jeffe vs 505 gibbs.. or the 30-06 vs 308 ... yeah, that "fad" is over or, perhaps, the beltless and shorter case? like the 284, the 30 newton, the 500 jeffe, yeah, that "fad" is over .. 308, or even 270? perhaps you meant specifically the wsm and saum? or smokeless powder, or those pesky brass cases, when front stuffers worked just fine... yeah, the 458winmag, leader of the short mags, certainly is "over" when compared to the 450 ne..no wait... over? not as long as there are marketing men #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Nope.. it can't be over yet. Ruger has the 30 and 338 RCM..so how far behind can the smaller bores be? Likely a 270 and a 25 and maybe a 284. | |||
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I was a short magnum curmudgeon until one day I came across a beautiful Kimber with a Zeiss scope at a very reasonable price. The only problem was that it was chambered in the dreaded, useless 300 WSM. I had to have it anyway, and have been pleasantly surprised by the accuracy and efficacy of the cartridge. I won't say I'm a short mag convert, but I view them with a much more open mind than I did initially. It's getting to the point that for any particular usage there is a wide range of cartridges available to the user. There are short versions, long versions, high velocity magnum versions and traditional versions. My own philosophy is to narrow my search to a range of suitable and closely similar cartridges, and then buy the rifle I like in any one of the chamberings. I think its great that the hunter/shooter has so many options open to him today, both in rifles and cartridges. I don't see how anyone could think that was a bad thing. If the day ever comes when the only 30 calibre cartridge available to us is the 30-06, then we will know that is the day our sport died. | |||
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Fad Schmad, who cares. I have a couple of 270WSM's and a 25WSSM, and having them has increased my enjoyment. Isn't that what it's all about? Have any of them killed a game animal that my first deer rifle couldn't (270 M70 bought in 1952)? No, but I've had fun with them. this is a hobby, it's for fun. If you don't want to buy something don't buy it. Why do we have to continually hear: "They're an answer to a problem that didn't exist". Well, gosh, is the 2008 Chevy pickup different from the 2007 because there was a problem with the 2007? | |||
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WPN ----- The short fat fad is certainly not over for me and mine. My 270 WSM is amazing and my .243 and 25 WSSM's are real Whitetail killers for my grandson's. My son, a 20 year .300 Winny shooter even packed the 25 WSSM this year for Deer, stating that it was a real pleasure to shoot and packed a wallop besides. I encounter more and more in the field, so they must appeal to more than me. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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I don't think the .270, and 300 WSMs are going obsolete anytime soon and considering Ruger's new Shorties, I'd say the fad is alive and well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the 270 won't do it the .338 will, if the 338 won't I can't afford the hunt! | |||
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What I don't understand is why Thompson came up with their own .308 round and is selling it as a 3000+ fps round with 150 grn. bullets. I think the .308 win already does that and cheaper! ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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They both get the job done. But with whom would you prefer to sleep? The tall, slim, sexy looking one that needs a belt around her waist to hold in all that pent up engery------or the short fat dumpy one? 114-R10David | |||
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Understand, I have never owned any of the short magnums but I have managed to shoot numerous rifles so chambered that were owned by friends. In fact most were very accurate. I do note that none of my friends seem to have them anymore. There seem to have been numerous feeding problems - the rifles were Winchesters and Remingtons. No one is very clear about why they don't still own the rifles but there it is. Now these guys are like me in that they are always trading and experimenting and that may be all there is to it. Still all of us have a core of rifles that stick and become real pets and out of the group above none of the short mags have yet made the cut. | |||
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I have a Rem 7 in 7mmRSAUM. I love it! Ammo is available, but you wouldn't want to wait till the last minute to pick up your season's ammo supply. I am always amazed at the people who are so negative against the short mags  | |||
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TWL, Interesting analogy, however, totally irrelevant!  Don't you know that "sleeping" with fat girls is a lot of fun..........until your friends find out your doing it! | |||
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my question is, how long do they have to be around before its not considered a fad anymore? with more and more rifles being chambered, and more and more and more ammo manufacturers offering more choices of bullets/weights, no, its not over. people fear change, but the short mags aren't trying to change anything! its just another option. it is amazing how far people will go to talk negatively about a cartridge desing however. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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I think it's far from over. I have no use for them as I am 100% happy with the rounds that have been around for a long time, 22lr, 223, 303 Brit, 30-06, 375 H&H etc. I wish manufacturers would put more time into making better rifles out of the box versus trying to reinvent the wheel as far as new chamberings go. I would be much more impressed with tight metal to wood fits, triggers, slick actions, bedding etc, than a new whiz-bang round of any designation. I tihnk maybe though the level of product is simply a reflection of the capability of those who make the guns, since so many have to be produced, the quality suffers. Like tract housing, they are really built to the lowest common denominator which is why quality inspections must be done, if everyone knew when the hell they were doing and did the BEST job possible, inspections would be nearly worthless. Another thing that has irked me is that it seems we are heading to a proprietary type of existence with the new rounds. I noticed Remington is chambering the WSM's (because the RSUAM was an abortion) but I can;t see how each company chambering rifles in only their own short mag will be of any benefit to the consumer and thus sell more rifles overall. I would think it might give people a 'wait and see' attitude about 'which round will still be around 5 years from now'. Keeping in mind of course, that the average hunter (who is coerced by the ad hype) buys his rounds off the shelf a week before the deer season opens. _Baxter | |||
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Baxter, Well, if you're on the wait and see whats around in 5 years side of the fence....the 300wsm has passed that mark! I see your point about the "proprietery" round though. Had the WSM's taken the big fall, I think we'd be seeing model 70 and a-bolts in the SAUM's. You gotta go where the money is. It will be interesting though, to see who else chambers the RCM's! If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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I wonder say a little more than a hundred years ago....two or three men at the town trading post just talking....."I wonder what's with all this smokeless powder nonsence?" ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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The next fad will be SLAM cartridges!! (Super Long Action Magnums) Can't sell new actions unless you have some really long cases!! Say maybe a 4.5" COAL straight walled .375! The "pencil" magnums - hold 12 rounds down! | |||
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The difference is that there was a huge difference in performance of the two. It did soemthing black powder did not do. Just ask, "what does a short mag do that the cartridge it is competing against does not do?' without referring to a ballistics chart. The difference is maybe 2% for some of these new cartidges, is that really as big a difference between black and smokeless powder? | |||
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Not talking about performance here...just people being people...talking ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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why does there have to be a huge difference? lets face it, we're not going to see monumental changes like that ever again most likely. things are going to come not in leaps and bounds, but in fractions and percents. for comparison, when a new model of car comes out with 5 more horse power, people dont ever say whats 5 more gonna do that it didnt do before? If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Yes I'm afraid the short mag will go the same way that other fad did! The automobile..get a horse...Ha HA | |||
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Short Mag FAD??? Didn't know anything about them being a FAD. Have a Great Day and God Bless | |||
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Work and operate in a short action........pretty simple answer..... Focus If Accurate Rifles are Interesting.........I've Got Some Savage Rifles That Are Getting Mighty Interesting..... | |||
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I sure like my M-70 featherweight in the 25 WSSM. It's everything I ever desired in a small caliber hunting rifle....especally when in the mtns. My Ruger M-77 .25-06 is a "pig" to compare. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet III/ii | |||
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It always amazes me how people discount the value of a short action rifle over a long action rifle. I've reached a point in my "rifle evolution" where I don't even care to own a long action rifle. No, I'll never get rid of my .270, .280, or '06., but the only reason I ever shoot them is for nostalgia. I always prefer to hunt with my 7mm-08 or 300 WSM. To me, a short action is a REAL DIFFERENCE. I've been enjoying playing with a 6.5X55 Swede. What a great cartridge. But the fact that it takes a long action kind of ruins it for me. Soon I will be picking up a .260 Rem even though they are not very popular. The short mags are not a fad, so therefore the question posed is flawed. Some of the rounds won't make it. What a shame. I like variety. What I don't like is other people taking variety away from me. | |||
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I got rid of most of my magnums before the shorty's came out. I'm down to a .300H&H and see no need for anything new that has "magnum" at the end of it. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Well If I want to sleep with one it'd be Ginger. If I wanted one to kill a deer, I'd send Maryanne.  | |||
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I just never saw any need for specialized short action bolt rifles. The "short cartridges" (hunting) were originally designed for lever rifles before they made the actions longer. In reality if 1/2 inch of action length impacts your hunting take that half inch off the barrel. Otherwise you need a workout program. Funny also is a short light rifle chambered for a short long range magnum cartridge, I just love muzzle blast and recoil. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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huh .. aint memory a cool thing... the "short fat dumpy one" was a former miss nevada, and brainie.. the "tall slim" one was a nightclub singer, and compared to the "short dumpy one" was actually a bit rubenesque... i prefer to think of them as "sex on heels"(tm) and "sex on hay" jeffe #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I'd say the novelty has worn off, and as maligned as they have been, some good cartridges have come of the movement (300 & 325WSM). Now, they're just regular cartridges instead of the new, hot thing on the block. I'd say the "fad" isn't over, per se because manufacturers are still introducing new cases to keep the fire burning. The 300 and 338 RCM's are proof of that. They're neat ideas that serve engineering and design purposes, but don't have any significant practical impact to the world of sporting arms. Either way, it's still nice to see companies thinking about and introducing new cartridges. _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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