The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Why is the 350 Griffin & Howe Magnum a dead cartridge?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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According to the given sources the 350 G&H is the 375 H&H Magnum full length case necked down to - 357? or 358? diameter. Due to the case characteristics a smooth fed should be ensured. I would bet it would give far better trajectory and killing power than 35 Whelen (or even 9.3x62) especially with 280 gr bullets. I assume the recoil should be lower than 375 H&H. It would be right along the 350 Rigby another classics that might have a sense for someone that is intending to use it strictly for the African larger plains game not having a desire “pushing” anything else larger. What is your opinion? CZ | ||
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I'd imagine that one of the reasons is that in the 52 years that I have been shooting, and the last 5 years or running a gun shop; I have yet to see a loaded cartridge much less a piece of brass for that round. The .375 is every where. I have nothing against the round, and should be a good one. But, that's the first issue that comes to my mind. | |||
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You can buy the brass from Midway made by Qual Cart. This rifle is the stuff of dreams. Look at all the pics including the book ones. Drool time. http://www.schwandtclassicarms..._serial_number_2.htm 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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The cartridge is well covered in Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges available from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Bore-Rif...arious/dp/1879356007 Often thought it would be a great rebore for a shot out 30 Super (300 H&H) if I could ever find one. Probably a cordite fed classic British magazine rifle would be ideal. But it would still be an expensive rifle, even with a poor bore. Us poor folk could build one on an early (26" bbl), 721 300 H&H, with a rebore and fitted with a 700 Classic stock. Total cost < $1500. It would be unique, but really do nothing a 375 H&H cannot with today's super bullets like the 235 Barnes. | |||
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I guess for the same reason that the 358 Norma Magnum is pretty much comatose. That the 338 Winchester does it as well up to 250 grains and that because it isn't a .375 bore it is therefore illegal in thse parts of the world, Africa, where it might otherwise be useful. | |||
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I have several original 350 Griffin & Howe Magnum loaded cartridges in my gunroom. | |||
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I have a 350G&H Improved. I make brass from 340 weatherby. Love It! Mine will never die  " If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand which feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countryman " Samuel Adams, 1772 | |||
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Because it doesn't qualify for DG in any Africa country...recoils is probably very similar to a 375hhmag...so what am I really getting in? Nothing... Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike D., do you think its inventors intended to qualify it for DG purposes? I hardly think so, look at today’s 9.3x62 which in my opinion is very good general plains game caliber. At least the 35 G&H should bring the same... Apropos a wise hunter will qualify himself for DG with at least .410 diameter. CZ | |||
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of the .35 Remington, the .35 Whelen, and the .358 Winchester, I can't think of any really commercially successful .35 caliber high-powered cartridge. (I'm not counting the .357 Magnum, which might even be more commercially successful than the 3 I mentioned.) And I've always been mystified by this lack of wide popularity. _________________________ Glenn | |||
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CZ, It's not that simple ... there are 3 variants at least. Anyone can build one easily, just need to determine which one you want, buy the reamer and then buy the custom dies that match. Send Dave Manson an email and he'll send the reamer prints he has under 350G&H. Cheers... Con | |||
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Well, I luv the 358 Winchester and think the 35 Whelen is a great cartridge, I don't think I would call them commercially successful. CZ - I don't think they were trying to make it a DG round...my point is anything that needs a 350 Griffin Howe to kill it...you might as well be using a 375 HH. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I was giving those two a little credit at least. Maybe I should have said "minimally commercially successful."  Some years back I was going to look into a Browning BLR in .358 Win, but it had walked out the door of my local gunshop only about an hour before. Oh, fudge! _________________________ Glenn | |||
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The popularity even of the .35 Remington is shades of the past.  roger  Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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True dat, Bartsche. I'm showing my age! _________________________ Glenn | |||
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I have a friend who shoots a 350 Rigby and it is a great cartridge for plains game. I think the other posters have pretty much identified the problem. There is little that a smaller bore diameter won't do for plains game and it's not DG legal in most places. That said, I'd rather shoot an Eland with a 350 Rigby than a 338 Win Mag. I also think that the trend towards velocity and trajectory has put many people off. Not that these big .35 cartridges are a slouch by any means! The cartridges that didn't survive the 70's and 80's magnum era simply did not survive I guess. Maybe there is a new thread lurking in here somewhere: "How many moderate velocity cartridges have been released in the last 20 years?" I can think only of the 338 Federal offhand. It's the same reason why people shoot 210gr bullets (and even lighter) in a .338 Win and the 338-06 etc. | |||
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I think one problem is the availability of proper bullets for a big .35 magnum. There are plenty of .358 caliber 180gr, 200gr, 225gr, and 250gr bullets to be had for milder .35 calibers. Only esoteric bullet manufacturers have suitable 270gr or heavier bullets with special order the norm. . | |||
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I have shot two .358 STA's extensively for several years and have no trouble getting the heavier bullets. North Fork makes by far the best at 270 grains, then Swift A-Frame at 280 brains, then Woodleigh at 310 grains. I used the North Forks in the Selous on plains game and they performed with perfection on Zebra, Kongoni and Impala. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Always was intrigued by this cartridge. Looks to be quite a thumper. What is the recoil like? | |||
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Both of my rifles are Model 70 Customs with Muzzle Brakes and the recoil with the heavier bullets are about like my unbraked .300 Winny. I also shoot a .340 Wby and .338 Lapua both braked and the recoil is about the same. It is necessary to wear hearing protection, which I have found is not so hard, even in the field. I use these larger chamberings in Alaska, Canada and Africa, where I stand a chance of meeting a mad and agressive animal that can bite back. If you are sensitive to a little recoil and noise, stay on the porch. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Phurley, I'm having a 358RUM built using the 300RUM as parent brass. Simply necked up. A 225gr AccuBond seats at 3.75" so a Wyatt box is being fitted to the Rem700 donor. At that length, a Woodleigh 275grPP seats in the neck only, allowing all the space behind to be filled with lovely powder. Cheers... Con | |||
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Sounds like a real interesting chambering. I find the .358 bullet real tough and accurate and I tried them all, testing extensively with boxs filled with wet paper files and Bison bones (my brother-in-law raises Bison). Let us know how it turns out. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Sorry, not wanting to highjack this thread, Phurley what type of hearing protection did you use in the field in Africa? | |||
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I use ear plugs on a string around my neck, they are always where you can reach them when the shot presents itself. Shooting from the bench I use plugs and muffs. I do a lot of shooting and my hearing is fine. I hunted for years with a shotgun without hearing protection, that was dumb. I have since learned when you pull the trigger on a gun, you need hearing protection. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Thank you. I'm still working this out. I don't seem to have enough hands for most of this (rifle, binos, sometimes range finder, sticks etc). I've seen some headband style plugs that allow some hearing too and I am considering those. | |||
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The 175 grain 358 ESP Raptor can take the highest velocities and penetrate quite deep. I have a special place in my heart for the 35 as you can see by the 358 Gremlin in my sigline. I would love a 350 Rigby, 35 Newton and think the 350GH would be sweet but it's hard not to take the similar result easy path of the 375HH. I like the idea of a 35-300HH for the longer neck of about a tad over .4" in length. Rebore a 300 HH and have something quite unique. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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The 350G&H sure is a proportionately beautiful cartridge. I have two boxes myself and always thought building one would be a fun project. They also made a .333 G&H Super Magnum based on the H&H case. I think I have the only one of those but no original cartridges. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Why is the 350 Griffin & Howe Magnum a dead cartridge?
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