I would be happy to use any caliber from the 30-30 Win. on up with a properly constructed bullet. I am not particularly a caliber person, as most get the job done if place properly. Even the big bears..

That said and to answer a persons question such as this I would simple suggest that he shoot as large a caliber as he can shoot comfortably without any thought of flinching.

That, of course would take informative conversation out of the scenario, but the person in question would never regret the decision..

I guess its a do as say not do as I do answer.

.30-06 of course. sheesh!

For me it would be my new custom Rem 700 358 Norma mag, but that's just me any good rifle 30.cal or larger would work if know your limitations.

If the only chambering that existed was a 270 Win (or whatever) there would be no fewer hunters or animals taken.

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
Question:
what is your choice for one cartidge for all North american Big game from Deer to Grizzleys and all inbetween ?

As Grizzleys are on the menu: 375HH. Wide range of bullet weights, ammo everywhere, manageable recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:

One of my favorite rounds is the 308 win.

Funny, two guys who live and hunt in Grizzly Country choose the 308 Win...

Make mine 308.

.338 Win. Mag. would be my first choice, but a close second would be the .30-06.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:

One of my favorite rounds is the 308 win.

Funny, two guys who live and hunt in Grizzly Country choose the 308 Win...

Make mine 308.

No me, Brad

I live in bear country, and that's why I use a .338WM.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:

One of my favorite rounds is the 308 win.

Funny, two guys who live and hunt in Grizzly Country choose the 308 Win...

Make mine 308.

No me, Brad

I live in bear country, and that's why I use a .338WM.

Exactly right.

quote:

quote:

No me, Brad :Smiler:

I live in bear country, and that's why I use a .338WM.

Exactly right.

with an upgrade to 375Ruger

Thirty+ years ago I weighed options on a serious all around rifle and chose the 338 WinMag. Some of the reasons don't apply today. For example, the 338 was the largest Winchester/Ruger/Remmie that was available at standard prices. To move up to a 375 or 458 added 50-60% to the price, while a 338 was the same as a 270, 30-06, or 300WM. There were more bullets available in .338, too, like the Noslers. Today the 338 still has a slightly better bullet selection, but the 375's are close enough. However, the 375 Ruger is a game changer on calibre selection. The 375 Ruger comes as a standard rifle and provides increased diameter and energy. If it were around 30 years ago I probably would have become a 375 Ruger fan to the extent that I'm 338 fan. Today? For all around entry level with big animal capability, I'd recommend the 375 Ruger. The 338 Win Mag might have a slight edge if shots were frequently going to be 250-400 yards. It's sort of a 270 // 30-06 debate, though the Ruger is halfway to a 300 WinMag on that analogy.

PS: For short-range whitetails a 200 grain GSC bullet could be loaded to 2600fps. That is basically a 30-06 in recoil. For elk or mulie, a 250 TTSX could be loaded to 2600-2900fps, according to the rifle's accuracy nodes. You'd be good for anything out to 400 yards. If someone plans to shoot more that 400 yards, then they can consider a specialty 338 calibre or at least a bullet with a BC over .500.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

quote:

No me, Brad :Smiler:

I live in bear country, and that's why I use a .338WM.

Exactly right.

with an upgrade to 375Ruger

Thirty+ years ago I weighed options on a serious all around rifle and chose the 338 WinMag. Some of the reasons don't apply today. For example, the 338 was the largest Winchester/Ruger/Remmie that was available at standard prices. To move up to a 375 or 458 added 50-60% to the price, while a 338 was the same as a 270, 30-06, or 300WM. There were more bullets available in .338, too, like the Noslers. Today the 338 still has a slightly better bullet selection, but the 375's are close enough. However, the 375 Ruger is a game changer on calibre selection. The 375 Ruger comes as a standard rifle and provides increased diameter and energy. If it were around 30 years ago I probably would have become a 375 Ruger fan to the extent that I'm 338 fan. Today? For all around entry level with big animal capability, I'd recommend the 375 Ruger. The 338 Win Mag might have a slight edge if shots were frequently going to be 250-400 yards. It's sort of a 270 // 30-06 debate, though the Ruger is halfway to a 300 WinMag on that analogy.

PS: For short-range whitetails a 200 grain GSC bullet could be loaded to 2600fps. That is basically a 30-06 in recoil. For elk or mulie, a 250 TTSX could be loaded to 2600-2900fps, according to the rifle's accuracy nodes. You'd be good for anything out to 400 yards. If someone plans to shoot more that 400 yards, then they can consider a specialty 338 calibre or at least a bullet with a BC over .500.

For one rifle, I can find no fault in your reasoning. However, if I was starting out today to build a minimal battery, I would start with a 7mm-08 carbine, keep the .338 WM and jump up to .416 Ruger for the nasties.

quote:

For one rifle, I can find no fault in your reasoning. However, if I was starting out today to build a minimal battery, I would start with a 7mm-08 carbine, keep the .338 WM and jump up to .416 Ruger for the nasties.

Well, I can't find fault in your battery, either. THe 7-08 is pretty close to a 270, and the 416 Ruger is pretty close to a 416 Rigby. See my byline, mentioning 270, 338, and 416.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

quote:

No me, Brad :Smiler:

I live in bear country, and that's why I use a .338WM.

Exactly right.

with an upgrade to 375Ruger

Thirty+ years ago I weighed options on a serious all around rifle and chose the 338 WinMag. Some of the reasons don't apply today. For example, the 338 was the largest Winchester/Ruger/Remmie that was available at standard prices. To move up to a 375 or 458 added 50-60% to the price, while a 338 was the same as a 270, 30-06, or 300WM. There were more bullets available in .338, too, like the Noslers. Today the 338 still has a slightly better bullet selection, but the 375's are close enough. However, the 375 Ruger is a game changer on calibre selection. The 375 Ruger comes as a standard rifle and provides increased diameter and energy. If it were around 30 years ago I probably would have become a 375 Ruger fan to the extent that I'm 338 fan. Today? For all around entry level with big animal capability, I'd recommend the 375 Ruger. The 338 Win Mag might have a slight edge if shots were frequently going to be 250-400 yards. It's sort of a 270 // 30-06 debate, though the Ruger is halfway to a 300 WinMag on that analogy.

PS: For short-range whitetails a 200 grain GSC bullet could be loaded to 2600fps. That is basically a 30-06 in recoil. For elk or mulie, a 250 TTSX could be loaded to 2600-2900fps, according to the rifle's accuracy nodes. You'd be good for anything out to 400 yards. If someone plans to shoot more that 400 yards, then they can consider a specialty 338 calibre or at least a bullet with a BC over .500.

The most popular cartridges in Alaska are the .30-06, .300WM, and .338WM. The .375 H&H seems to be more popular by Anchorage and coastal areas. I also see the 7mm Magnum during the moose season, but most hunters carry the .300 and .338WM.

What makes these cartridges popular up here is ammo availability, although in recent months finding any ammo at the local stores has been difficult. Anyway, it's even more difficult to find ammo for newer cartridges such as the .375 Ruger, and maybe that's why such calibers are very rare in Alaska.

Instead of a .375 Ruger, for bears I would choose a .375 H&H with ammo loaded with 300-grain NOS Partition bullets.
--------

That said, I have had one rifle for all my hunting in Alaska since 1992, a stainless Ruger M77 MK-II in .338WM, topped with a matte Leupold Vary-XII 2.5-8x scope. i have shot this rifle with bullet weights from 300 grains to 225, and have settle for the Barnes 225-grain TSX (or the plastic-tip one of the same weight).

If I were going to use this rifle in the lower-48 to hunt deer and such, I would use Federal factory ammo with 180 bullets. But if the game was elk, I would use the same bullet I use for moose (the 225-grain TSX).

My choice back in the 80's when I bought my first custom rifle as an "all around" was the 338 WM and it still would be if I had to do that again.

I'm a big fan of the 30-06 and 300WM and have used them alot but they just don't do what that 250 NP does from the 338 on bigger animals. If you want a litte flatter trajectory try the 340 WBY or 338 Ultra Mag.

Mark

Why??? Why would a person want to shoot varmints with a big (ger) rifle? A 25-06 is preposterously large for even coyotes, depending on range and bullets. Anything bigger just intrude further into the realm of the ridiculous. There's not a doubt in my mind I could drop any North American bear into it's shadow with a .243, but it is as ridiculous as a 340 Weatherby for ground squirrels.

With the bullets available today, almost anything from .257 caliber to 50 caliber can be made to do an admirable job on small deer to huge bears. But WHY???

quote:

Instead of a .375 Ruger, for bears I would choose a .375 H&H with ammo loaded with 300-grain NOS Partition bullets.

"For bears" is a reason against the 375 Ruger?!

People usually want the biggest for bears. The 375 Ruger has a 5 grain capacity advantage over the H&H, it can handle the 300 NP even better than the H&H, and it can be found in lots of 20" stainless rifles for inclement weather and fast handling. The 375H&H is a great round. The 375 Ruger is the same or better, and it comes in a more modern package. Anyway, my wife just bought 375 Ruger so we'll have one in the family.

A fella can wear himself out worrying about shit that doesn't matter for situations that won't happen with guns that won't make a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Instead of a .375 Ruger, for bears I would choose a .375 H&H with ammo loaded with 300-grain NOS Partition bullets.

"For bears" is a reason against the 375 Ruger?!

People usually want the biggest for bears. The 375 Ruger has a 5 grain capacity advantage over the H&H, it can handle the 300 NP even better than the H&H, and it can be found in lots of 20" stainless rifles for inclement weather and fast handling. The 375H&H is a great round. The 375 Ruger is the same or better, and it comes in a more modern package. Anyway, my wife just bought 375 Ruger so we'll have one in the family.

Most hunters up here use all kinds of gun calibers to kill bears, although the .375H&H is more popular with hunters by coastal areas where bears grow larger.

In reality, hunters who are specifically hunting bears tend to pick the most powerful guns, but most hunters are not hunting bears, just moose, caribou, bison, and so on. What happens is that some see a bear while moose hunting, for example, and kill it with whichever rifle at hand.

And there is not reason against using any gun one is comfortable with for bears. But my preference a proven cartridge I am familiar with, one I can readily find ammo for at the local stores. In the case of the .375H&H versus the .375 Ruger, at least in Alaska finding ammo for the later is almost impossible.

If I seas to hunt bear alone, I still would take my trusty .338WM loaded with ammo that include 250-300 grain bullets. But since I usually hunting moose, the rifle is loaded with 225-Grain TSX ammo, just because I have become used to this rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:
Why??? Why would a person want to shoot varmints with a big (ger) rifle? A 25-06 is preposterously large for even coyotes, depending on range and bullets. Anything bigger just intrude further into the realm of the ridiculous. There's not a doubt in my mind I could drop any North American bear into it's shadow with a .243, but it is as ridiculous as a 340 Weatherby for ground squirrels.

With the bullets available today, almost anything from .257 caliber to 50 caliber can be made to do an admirable job on small deer to huge bears. But WHY???

Well, all depends. If I am going to hunt only varmints, I would use the right caliber and bullet, not a gun loaded with with ammo for bison, bear, or elephant (for example). But lets say that I am hunting varmint with a very small gun using the right ammo for varmint. I would be hard pressed to shoot a bear that happens to come by. There is a pretty good chance that when I shoot the bear will either run or charge, in which case I sure don't want to injure it.

I don't hunt bears, but I hunt with people who do, and you won't see any of these guys and girls using anything smaller than a .30-06 with heavy per caliber ammo. One of my hunting partners killed an interior grizzly three years ago. He hit the bear though the chest three times with his .375 H&H, and his son two times with his .338 before the bear dropped. A grizzly on a full charge can move a distance of 14 or more feet per stride, and most people don't have enough time to aim and shoot by the time they see the bear.

Now, long ago while checking a trapline, I saw a marmot caught in a trap, still much alive on a high point by the trail. I was about 100 yards from it. I shot it with a 230-grain FS, right through the lungs, and the bullet hole through it was maybe 1/4" in diameter. The reason why, was because a marmot does not have enough body mass to offer any resistance to the bullet. In this case, the bullet had no chance to expand.

It does not mean that I am going to shoot varmint nor very small game with a .338, just that in the event that I have to shoot such, the bullet won't expand.

quote:

Originally posted by mlfguns:
.300 H&H. Nothing will feed and extract as well. You can upload and download to your needs and have all the .30 caliber bullet selection.
If the original question was world wide, then the .375 H&H is my choice.
Reality, when you are a rifle loony like all of us, it is hard to get by with anything less than a half dozen rifles.

Yes, it is hard to just have one rifle if we shoot from deer to polar bear.
But the larger game in North America, such as Bison and Bear, needs a 250 gr pill from a 338 Win Mag just to get the odds on your side.
I am sure when there was only a 30-06 way back in 1906, all was in agreement that it was the new ticket.
With the good bullets we have today, we no longer need the bigger bores.
Buying a 458 Lott to shoot a bear once in your life is a waste of money.
The 338 Win Mag will carry you across the country and back, if you use good bullets.
An equally good choice is the new 375 Ruger.

Santa Claus

I think Phil Shoemaker and lots of other Alaskan guides may take issue with your comment that big bores are no longer needed.

Kirkwood? Did you know Roy Weatherby? Was he not fond of marketing his products in the 50s by saying all one needed were his high velocity rounds and shot placement was now in the backseat?

Your comments sound similar.

While the modern sport hunter may not now (or ever) have required a big bore for his hunting forays the guuide is a different story. He is legally and ethically responsible for the safety of the party. Thus, he is required to be able to stop a charge if it is within his power to do so. That means a cool hand, a good shot, and a proper weapon with which to do so.

So, I see there as being a place for a big rifle in North America. I think your point is well taken that new bullets allow the sport hunter to use a lighter for caliber bullet if he wishes and still get excellent on game performance. To me, once above 30 caliber why not got to 375.

Cheers.

Lots of hunters, hunt on their own without a guide/outfitter, in fact most do. That being the case, a larger bore is just as essential for them as for a guide/outfitter... even more so as they have no backup. If only hunting varmints or American antelope, well that's another story.

Such being the case, a .338 WM or 9.3 X 62 is about right for anything, anywhere in N.A.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I am curious to know how the 375 Ruger is doing in the USA, since only Ruger is chambering for the round and only Hornady provides the ammo.

Is it gaining popularity?

Santa Claus

quote:

Originally posted by Santa Claus:
I am curious to know how the 375 Ruger is doing in the USA, since only Ruger is chambering for the round and only Hornady provides the ammo.

Is it gaining popularity?

Santa Claus

My wife just bought one, Ruger Alaskan model. And she just got 100 Hornady cases from MidwayUSA.

Actually, several companies are coming onboard with production. Howa chambers a rifle, and Montana Rifles. Nosler is supposed to be coming out with some brass.

Reasons for purchase: a. husband (me) recommended, b., legal for buffalo in Tanzania, c., available in smaller, lighter rifle (Ruger Alaskan) than typical H&H, d., husband will do all of the handloading, e., can be downloaded in power while maintaining diameter for terminal effects, f. good price ($720).

quote:

Originally posted by ckr:
This never ending attempt to limit us to one or even a few guns makes you all sound like my wife. Bottom line is a guy needs a deer gun, moose gun, elk gun, antelope gun, africa gun or two, groundhog gun, squireel gun, - I think you get the idea. Good news is I haven't even got to shotguns yet. Do you have any idea how mant different criiters there are that need to be taken with a differnet shotgun? Before a guy knows what's happened he's got 50 different guns for the potential array of critters that might need slayed and we haven't yet addressed home and personal defense. This limited battery stuff has got to stop!!

A man after my own heart!

If push came to shove, I would opt for a 30-06 shooting 200 gr. Nosler partitions at 2700 FPS.

I would not be opposed to a 7x57 with a long throat and 06 length magazine shooting 175 gr. Noslers at 2650 FPS or better.

I even include the big bears of Alaska.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:

quote:

Originally posted by ckr:
This never ending attempt to limit us to one or even a few guns makes you all sound like my wife. Bottom line is a guy needs a deer gun, moose gun, elk gun, antelope gun, africa gun or two, groundhog gun, squireel gun, - I think you get the idea. Good news is I haven't even got to shotguns yet. Do you have any idea how mant different criiters there are that need to be taken with a differnet shotgun? Before a guy knows what's happened he's got 50 different guns for the potential array of critters that might need slayed and we haven't yet addressed home and personal defense. This limited battery stuff has got to stop!!

A man after my own heart!

I too agree!
That post is very similar to my own justification to own a pile of firearms.
I must say though that Ray makes a lot of sense that "if push came to shove" I too would hunt anything on our continent and a good bunch of game on other continents with a 30/06, I only differ on the load, a good 180 grain bullet going 2800 fps. I can't see that I'd be under gunned either.

We can all play that game, too. What if you only had ______ or _____ ?

Well, we would go hunting! We would just be more careful with some shots.

And you know what? Those of us shooting 150 grains at 2900fps in a .270 would do just fine. And if we wanted more weight for the far north, then 180 grain bullets at 2700 fps are available, too. (I would just test the bullets first, to make sure that they stayed together and didn't throw their weight on impact.) Or one might find me shooting a 129 grain monolithic at 3100fps and taking anything that moved on the continent with excellent penetration.

But if I get to choose my weapon, it would either be a 338 Win Mag or a 375 Ruger. I've learned to appeciate diameter and weight while maintaining flat trajectory. And if I ever get too old and distracted by recoil, may the Lord so bless me, then I would reduce the loads a bit, say 75% of max energy, and limit hunting to 300 yards. Not bad, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Santa Claus:
I am curious to know how the 375 Ruger is doing in the USA, since only Ruger is chambering for the round and only Hornady provides the ammo.

Is it gaining popularity?

Santa Claus

Actually, several companies are coming onboard with production. Howa chambers a rifle, and Montana Rifles. Nosler is supposed to be coming out with some brass.

Nosler currently sells their brand ammo in .375 Ruger. CZ is factory chambering the .375 Ruger and .416 Ruger in their 550 Express Rifle.

quote:

Nosler currently sells their brand ammo in .375 Ruger. CZ is factory chambering the .375 Ruger and .416 Ruger in their 550 Express Rifle.

Thanks, Jim.

It looks like Remington and Winchester will be late to the party.

My choice is clearly the 300 H&H with 200 or 220 grainers depending on the terrain.

CZ

Dig a huge hole and toss every caliber mentioned in it starting with the 7x57 and up to the 416 Rem or whatever, then when you want to hunt rabbits to Griz, just dip your hand in there and come out with one, I'm sure it will work..Favorites are such a prejudice subject, every human critter out there that has shot a coyote with his ole betsy has a favorite, good or bad its his betsy...My dad shot everything NA had to offer with his ole wore out Sav. 99 SRC and factory Rem or win. ammo..and it worked..

My favorites differ from his, even though I have shot a number of deer, elk and a bear or two with the 250-3000..I love the 7x57, 30-06 and .338 Win for NA...Also the .270, 9.3x62, 35 Whelen, and 30-30..

It gets really complicated because the 25-35 has never failed me either!.

If it came to one rifle for everything I hunt, I already have a couple that will do that. But it would be a mid-bore somewhere between .338 and .375. Anything less would have to be a .300 magnum, but then I have....

Nah, I agree with Ray... it gets too complicated!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Nice thread. roger

375 H&H vs. 375 Ruger

I have heard the whole "ammo availability" argument to justify the H&H yet how many people have actually lost their ammo during a trip.

The 375 Ruger is a superior round based on case capacity, standard action length and case geometry(angle pressure against bolt)

35 Whelen in a CRF mauser or winchester

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:
375 H&H vs. 375 Ruger

I have heard the whole "ammo availability" argument to justify the H&H yet how many people have actually lost their ammo during a trip.

The 375 Ruger is a superior round based on case capacity, standard action length and case geometry(angle pressure against bolt)

I'm coming around to feel the same way. One day it's 338WinMag, the next day it's 375 Ruger. Things are pretty nice when a person is flipping a coin between those two.
(Yeah, I'd probably be happy with a 35 Whelen or 9.3 or H&H, too, even a 270, but the 338Win and 375Rug magnums have a little more versatility and reach in a light to medium weight rifle.)

The 260 AAR (All Around Rifle) is what the originator/wildcatter proclaimed. It's a 6.5/257 Roberts improved. It's O.K. for deer sized game.

However, the all around rifle takes all of the fun out for us gun nuts if it limits us. We prefer to get a specific rifle for a specific purpose and game and often are guilty of acquiring another rifle without purpose or reason, other than it another rifle.

Geoff

Ai Karumba!! An old thread with a bunch of old calibers!.. Seems like despite what ever good idea I have about being in a commited relationship with one gun, I end up buying guns, and buying brass, and doing more monkeying around with load development, than I ever do actual hunting these days. Which is part of the fun, not complaining..

For my neck of the woods, .270, or even a .243 would probably do the trick. Think I,m goin with 9.3x62, gonna try to settle on one load with 286 Partitions, preferably with Varget, cause I,ve got a pretty decent supply of that.

Goin back over this thread, did,nt make me want to narrow it down to one,but it did remind me that I still want to get my hands on a 6.5x555, and a.264 Win mag. And I,ve still got a strange fascination with the 300 H&H..

OSIX