"The .338 Federal is a rifle cartridge based on the .308 Winchester case necked up to .33 caliber. It was created by Federal Cartridge and Sako in 2006 and intended as a big game cartridge with reasonable recoil for lightweight rifles."

http://www.gunweek.com/2007/feature0220.html

Federal says the 338 Federal will be "the only modern .338-caliber load that isn't a magnum configuration."

"Unlike short magnums, it doesn’t require a wide magazine box, so it’s ideally suited to slim, welter-weight rifles. The relatively fast-burning, compact powder charge and generous bore mean you get efficient acceleration in short barrels. Unlike cartridges that milk all their chart energy from speed and lack the bullet mass for a bone-busting hit or pass-through penetration, the .338 Federal gets a substantial share of its punch from hefty bullets. But these aren’t broad, blunt softpoints that wilt in the face of air friction and arc steeply to earth. These .33s are long spitzers that fly almost as flat as a 180-grain .30-06 bullet..... Wayne van Zwoll"

It sends a 210 gr Nosler Partition off at 2,630 fps (modest velocity) to strike down range at velocities that does not stress bullet out.

It is now 4 years later .... let us hear some stories and/or obsevations of how it is doing?


I have two questions:

a) At what pressure level does it achieve a velocity of 2630 fps with a 210 gr bullet out of a 308 Win case (i.e. small case)?
b) How does the 338-06 compare in the popularity stakes versus the 338 Fed - i.e. are both of them a commercial success?

Warrior

I would much prefer .358 Winchester if I had to pick between these two.

quote:

338 Federal - how is it doing?

It's the single best answer to the "unasked" question!

I don't have one nor do I want one nor do I know anyone that does! It's a cartridge whose time hasn't come.....nor will it nor has it ever in the past.

Someone at Federal had way way too much influence to allow them to tool up for this cartridge and spend money promoting it.

It might have had a chance as an option to the .358 Winchester during the "hay day" of the M-88 and the M-100 Winchester and the M-99 Savage.....as the .358 was a "bust" as well... but all three of those fine rifles are long since out of production~!

The .338 Federal is one of the finest answers to the "proverbial" unasked question!

The .338 Federal is to .41 magnum what .358 Winchester is to .44 magnum. There will be few takers.

vapodog,

So it seems then that you would rather opt to turn the 30-06 case than a 308 case into a .338 caliber, but is the 338-06 selling after A-Square commercialized the caliber into a standard factory offering? In our neck of the woods, both calibers only exist on paper.

Warrior

I have one, but have not had a chance to hunt with it yet. Do I have other guns that would do the job? YEP, But then dont we all.

I think every gun nut has guns just to try out, play with, hunt with, just looking for something different etc.

I say, keep the ideas coming.

I have one and love it. Mine shoots well. i'm going to chroney about 10 different loads this Saturday. I'll post the results. I've been coversing a lot with someone from the campfire that owns one. He is getting 2575 with a 210 Scirraco and 2600 with a 210 TTSX using TAC. One of the bullets I'm testing this weekend is 210 Partition with TAC and the new 2000MR powder from Alliant.

Alliant is claiming 2625 with 225 Fusions using their new 2000MR powder. Not sure I believe that one but I'll have to test when 338 Fusions become available.

I think the 338 Federal will last. It won't be super popular but then again what new cartridge introduced in the last 15 years has been? There are too many options now.

I give it a chance because it's built on a 308 case and uses a caliber that is popular here in the states. Lots of bullet choices.

The 7mm-08 took some time to become popular but it ultimately did because there were plenty of 7mm bullets available and the 7mm mag was popular.

Right now, the 338 Win mag seems to be extremely popular so I think the 338 Fed will have a good chance of surviving.

I think Federal is crazy to offer so many factory loads for it. They should cut their offerings in half. Keep the cheap 200 grain Fusion, add a cheap 225 gr Deep Curl (assuming they can keep velocity above 2500) and offer a one or two premium bullets. I would offer a light 160TTSX at max velocity and a premium 200-210 grain bullet.

I will throw my nickle in here.

I personally think that of all of the recent wizz-bang cartridges developed in the past few years, the best ones, and the ones that will last are the 338 Federal and the 325 WSM.

These are a good deer and black bear cartridges. I have friends with both. I am a dinosaur and use my 30-06 and 375 H&H, but the 338 Fed and 325 WSM do get my attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
vapodog,

So it seems then that you would rather opt to turn the 30-06 case than a 308 case into a .338 caliber, but is the 338-06 selling after A-Square commercialized the caliber into a standard factory offering? In our neck of the woods, both calibers only exist on paper.

Warrior

I don't think the .338-06 is available in any commercial chambering. However there are a quite a few that have custom chambered it and post on this forum. I have the chamber reamer if you want to use it!

To say that there are 100 times the number of .338-06 rifles to every .338 Federal rifle would be potentially and very roughly accurate but still misleading.....100 times nothing is still nothing.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warrior:
"The .338 Federal is a rifle cartridge based on the .308 Winchester case necked up to .33 caliber. It was created by Federal Cartridge and Sako in 2006 and intended as a big game cartridge with reasonable recoil for lightweight rifles."


It is now 4 years later .... let us hear some stories and/or obsevations of how it is doing?



Here is what I posted a while back. I think you were involved in that thread as well


You can take advice here for what its worth. Some people like to bitch and moan. Others try to piss on or hijack threads.

And some even try to help, even though they know that "no good deed goes unpunished".

More power to you on whatever you choose. I hope your as happy with you decision on which to buy after a season or two with your rifle as you were the day you purchased it. Only time and experience will tell.

Having said that I will add the following

I am a rifle looney. I reload for fifty or so different chamberings from 17 ackley hornet to 458 Lott.

I have owned the 223 wssm. I will never own that again.

Several each of 270wsm, 7mmWSM, 300 WSM and 325WSM, in Kimbers, both classic and Montana as well as in Sako and Winchester have followed me home. I currently have at least one rifle in each of those chamberings. Each has its merits. I will say that you have to be more careful when reloading for these chamberings to be sure they will feed after being resized. Of the four, the 7mmWSM is my least favorite.

I've also owned the whole family of 308 based rounds including the 338federal and 358 winchester. I wouldn't give a tinkers damn for the 338 federal. Most disapointing round I've ever owned. I could not get my reloads within 150fps of what book showed. Maybe I just had a bad set of dies, but I broke three decapping pins while reloading around 100 rounds. Only Sako rifle I could not get to shoot were two model 85 stainless synthetics. The first would not group consistently within four inches and I took it back to the shop where I bought it. They traded it for another and it was about the same.

I don't know what type of hunting/shooting you do, but would definitely check out others experiences with the 308 or 338 RCM, especially if you reload. The manufactures have proprietary powder choices you don't as a reloader. If your shooting factory, I'd still check it out carefully.

I've settled for the 308, 338-06, 35 whelen and 9.3 x 62. In my view they are superior chamberings to the 338 federal, 358 winchester, and the SAUM's and most likely, the RCM's.

That's what I posted then, still am of the same opinion.

I haven't checked lately but I do believe Sako discontinued the 338 federal chambering and one could buy new stainless synthetic Sako's and greywolf's on Gunbroker for about $700 as one of the optic stores had bought a bunch of the discontinued Sako inventory.

As to the 338-06 Weatherby chambered them for a season in their mark v ultralights. Cooper chambers them in their model 52, ER Shaw is producing their Mark vii rifle. Other than that I'm not familiar with any other production rifle chambered in 338-06.
GWB

As is posted, "the perfect answer to a question nobody asked...".

Federal needed to get some love, the boutique cartridge craze was passing them by.

If I had been them then, I would have hooked up with Savage to push the cartridge in rifles. They just said, "here's this wonderful little cartridge, somebody buy it.".

Rich
DRSS

quote:

I personally think that of all of the recent wizz-bang cartridges developed in the past few years, the best ones, and the ones that will last are the 338 Federal and the 325 WSM.

The 325 WSM was introduced in 2005 when Winchester recognized the need for a cartridge capable of launching 200 plus grain bullets for use on the largest North American game. Dimensionally the .325 WSM is identical to the .300 WSM, except that the .325 case is necked-up to accept regular 8mm (.323" diameter) bullets. The shoulder angle is 35 degrees, the rim diameter .535", and the base diameter .555", and the maximum case length remains 2.10".

Who would be the competition of the 325 WSM in 8 mm ..... basically just the dinosaurs - 8x57 mm, 8x64 mm, 8x68S and 8 mm Rem Mag. Very few of which are commercially available today. Perhaps the 325 WSM might revive and give new life to the waning 8 mm calibers.

But there is also other competition from close rivals like 35 Whelen and 9.3 x62 mm, shooting bullets that are popular whose owners are very staunch supporters that would never swap for a 325 WSM. Ballistically though, the 325 WSM is positioned very well.

Warrior

quote:

As to the 338-06 Weatherby chambered them for a season in their mark v ultralights. Cooper chambers them in their model 52, ER Shaw is producing their Mark vii rifle. Other than that I'm not familiar with any other production rifle chambered in 338-06.

I take it that it means the 338-06 is also out on a limb.

Warrior

quote:

I take it that it means the 338-06 is also out on a limb.

Warrior

I'd say yes.....but a much stronger limb than the .338 Federal....which is out on a leaf!

Not sure the 338 Fed will have a better run the the 358 Win but I actually like the concept.

It seems to be most popular with the semi-auto crowd. As previously mentioned, for any spcecific purpose, there are other better options avaliavle in bolt guns.

If the .338 Fed. ever has any meaningful following it will be a big surprise.
roger

quote:

Originally posted by Paolo9,5x73:
I would much prefer .358 Winchester if I had to pick between these two.

+1 for the 358 win. The 338 Federal's popularity is anemic, along with the saum, wssm and the like.

quote:

The 338 Federal's popularity is anemic, along with the saum, wssm and the like

This all happened in the last decade .... sound like it could be a mass funeral. The rise and fall of calibers have often nothing to do with ballisitics. [example: 6 mm Rem Mag; 257 Roberts; 6.5x54 mm Manlicher; 7x57 mm; 8x 57 mm; 308 Norma Magnum; 300 H&H; 358 Win and quite a few others]

Warrior

quote:

6 mm Rem Mag;

The 243 Win blasted the 6 mm Rem in oblivion.
That was a twist rate issue that was corrected later on.
But it was too late - it never recovered.
As by then the 243 Win was entrenched.

Warrior

I don't, nor do I know anyone who has one or even whants one.

IMHO It does not matter much how "Well" a cart does commercially if you have the gun and reload.
Same arguments between the 7mm and 30 cal.
Why chose the 338 Fed instead of the 358 Win and 308? Personal preference.
The best part of the 338 Fed is more bullet choice since they are making more bullets to accommodate the 338 fed and making existing 338 carts more versatile and opening up possibilities to new wildcats. A 338-6.5 Grendel is now possible thanks to the new 338 bullets. I applaud the move to make a non magnum 338. Faster is not always better.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
IMHO It does not matter much how "Well" a cart does commercially if you have the gun and reload.

I agree. I have my 338 Federal. Plenty of 308 brass to neck up and plenty of 338 Bullets. I don't care if Federal dumps it tomorrow. It's still a good cartdridge.

IMHO, if you don't show some real world improvement over an existing case, why introduce one? All that hassle and expense of SAAMI certifying it and testing...

On the other hand, as long as you like it, buy it and shoot it. Of course, I have a 22-378Wbee/Ackley Improved version. So what do I know?



Rich
DRSS

quote:

IMHO, if you don't show some real world improvement over an existing case, why introduce one?

Sounds logical to me!


Warrior

What do you consider an 'improvement'? Not all shooters live by the same criteria. I'm sure, to some folks, the 338 fed is an 'improvement'.

I can see a 338 Federal. But myself if I wanted to go shorter, like the 308 platform I'd go 358 Win. Only because I already shoot a 35 Whelen, and have 35 cal. bullets around the loading room.

I bought one of the first Sako 85s in 338 Federal that I came across. It seems to do what it was designed to do, and do it well. I would say it will flounder along for many years, just like the 358 Winchester. I have one of those also, and it is a very decent round.

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:

I will throw my nickle in here.

I personally think that of all of the recent wizz-bang cartridges developed in the past few years, the best ones, and the ones that will last are the 338 Federal and the 325 WSM.

I believe I am wrong about the 338 Fed.

There is a pretty strong following here in my town as the local gunsmith has been making low buck mauser conversions to 338-08 for 15 years or more, and we do a lot of bear hunting up here. His 338-08 reamer is identical to the 338 Fed. Another factor is the recent availability of Yugo 24/48 etc mausers and Boyd's making stocks for them. As I said, low buck mauser conversions. These are essentially replacing the venerable 30-30 lever guns around here.

The 325 WSM has potential in it's own right. Those who have them absolutely love them. Power in a light, accurate package.

Here is my take on it.

The rifle killed the cartridge!

Just like Remington killed the 6.5 and 350 Rem Mag but the platform they put it in. Why put an overbore 6.5 in a rifle with an 18" barrel, killing its claimed performance made by 24" barrels? Why put a heavy recoiling (for the average shooter mind you) .35 cal in a super light package? It made more sense with the 18" barrel and it was more efficient, but for the average hunter it was a mule.

Had Federal not selected Sako as the solitary chambered rifle, it would have done better. In todays gun world though you HAVE to come out with a solid bang ×pardon the pun× and be able to push it to the masses to just get a foothold, let alone keep it running.

Yes we all know the strong opinions of the short mags...but, the WSM was available in a LOT of good rifles very quickly for reasonable prices. Heck before Jamison you had Winchester, Browning, Sako, Tika, Benelli, Ruger, Savage, Blaser, Howa and Weatherby Vans....and I am sure I am missing some. And you had instant availability of bolts, semi auto, single shots and levers. They came off the line running and didn't slow down. Remington's SAUM was available only in Remington rifles, and only as a bolt action. Granted rems are popular, but it couldn't compete and even itself admited defeat and chambered WSMs. Ruger pulled out and created its own RCM...I personally have never laid eyes on rifle nor ammo, and WSMs are still at every gun shop and I start to see ammo in small towns and shops. The Ruger will suffer the fate of being late to the party and having a limited selection.

Whoever said Federal should have paired up with Savage was right! That was about the time Savages were REALLY becoming popular and taking a serious foothold in the new rifle market. Sako makes a GREAT rifle, no one doubts that, but a 1200-1800 rifle is just NOT going to start a new non-magnum, niche cartridge off the way it needed. Even offering it in the tika was toolittle too late. I think Kimber chambers it as well, yes? Again, 1200$ rifles.

Shame too, I like the concept of the 338 RCM and Federal. But personally, id rather see the 358 Win make a come back over the 338 Federal.

The .338F, .358W and .35 Whelen are great hunter cartridges. But, we are awash in great hunter cartridges and none of them offer anything effectively different from several others. So, as good as they are, they don't serve any real purpose.

Those of us who like them or, perhaps more correctly, like the rifle/cartrige combonations they come in will enjoy them and that's all that matters to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
The .338F, .358W and .35 Whelen are great hunter cartridges. But, we are awash in great hunter cartridges and none of them offer anything effectively different from several others. So, as good as they are, they don't serve any real purpose.

Those of us who like them or, perhaps more correctly, like the rifle/cartrige combonations they come in will enjoy them and that's all that matters to me.

Absolutely to the point in a minimum of words. roger

Better is...better.

Different is just...different.

The Japanese (IIRC) have a saying "Hanimah". Same-same, only different.

They hold out both hands at you with the thumbs both pointing left. One palm up, the other down. They say "hanimah". Then they turn both hands over so the thumbs point right. Then they say "hanimah" again. Same-same, only different.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

basically just the dinosaurs - 8x57 mm, 8x64 mm, 8x68S and 8 mm Rem Mag. Very few of which are commercially available today. Perhaps the 325 WSM might revive and give new life to the waning 8 mm calibers.

8*57 obsolete? you can have new ones in tikka,sako,merkel,mauser and more. Blaser makes rifles in 8*57, 8*64 and 8*68. 8*57 have a revival in Europe.

quote:

8*57 have a revival in Europe.

I am delighted to hear this.

We have some in SA but that is very old stock, that gets passed down from father to son - none in our shops for the last 30 years that I can remember.

I hunted with a guy once who had a 7.92 x57 mm (commonly called the 8 mm Mauser) had used 196 gr bullets (Sellier and Bellot) and it was a fine hunting rig. Got excellent results. (196 gr bullet @ 2,592 fps MV - striking velocity is moderate at range, hence good bullet performance)

Warrior

The .30-06 and .300WinMag ,.338WinMag did much to erode market for new rifles in 8x57JS and 8x68S. What euro bolt gun calibers are popular? 7x64, 7x57, 6,5x55 and 9,3x62 and the rest represent small percentage of rifle sales.

Here are some old faithful hunting cartridges - if you can't do it it with them, then it is not their fault ...



Warrior

You left two legendary euro rounds out of that lineup the .370 Sako (aka 9,3x66) and 376 Steyr.