out of curiosity what do you think about the 30 06 vs the 300 win mag pros/cons, both

The .300 Winchester and other super .308's project the .30 caliber game killing power further than the .30-06 i.e. they shoot flatter due to higher velocity and thus are easier for the riflemen to hit distant targets with. The .300 does not kill game better than the tried and true .30-06 Springfield. To increase game killing power you increase caliber. You need a 24" or 26" barrel to take advantage of the increased powder capacity of the .300 over the '06.

quote:

Originally posted by HTR30CAL:
out of curiosity what do you think about the 30 06 vs the 300 win mag pros/cons, both

I've never considered the .300 relevant, unless you're moving up to .338 and beyond, the .30-06 will do anything you want on this continent.

both great calibers, with lots of good loads, factory and reloading, available.

interchangable for 250 yards

quote:

Originally posted by HTR30CAL:
out of curiosity what do you think about the 30 06 vs the 300 win mag pros/cons, both

If ya can't do it with a .30-06, then ya really ought to move up in caliber....possibly all the way to .375

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
If ya can't do it with a .30-06, then ya really ought to move up in caliber....possibly all the way to .375

That's pretty much how I see it too, except I'd stop at the 9.3x62.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
If ya can't do it with a .30-06, then ya really ought to move up in caliber....possibly all the way to .375

That's pretty much how I see it too, except I'd stop at the 9.3x62.

+2
A 300 to me is extra muzzle blast and maybe 200 fps extra velocity. Out to 300 yds no animal will know the difference. If you want real objective knockdown power beyond the 30-06 go with a 338, 9.3 or 375.

Both classics. Can't go wrong either way. I prefer the 300 simply because it is a bit less popular.

I currently own a 30.06, but before I owned it, I had a 300WM. Both are, in my opinion, fine calibers. I've never felt undergunned with the .06.

I opted to sell the WM many years ago and when the time came to buy another 300 mag of sorts, I went with the RUM.

You mentioned "pros and cons." I can't think of a "con" for either, unless your getting into trivial stuff like recoil or the extra powder in the mag.

Looking at it from another angle, the 300 Win Mag will outshoot the 30-06 every day of the week - if you're a long range competition shooter, like me.

Ray

Lots look at the 300 mag as a further shooting 30-06, and it is, out where I have no business shooting. (And most don't either, despite the internet.)

The beauty of the 300 mag isn't the extra range, its the extra bullet weight at the same range. Same with the 308 vs. the 30-06. For example, the 165gr 308, the 180gr 30-06 and the 200gr 300wm all shoot at ~2700fps.

2700fps delivers all of the flat rejectory anyone ought to be using, imo. If you (regularly) need the heavier bullet, use the bigger cartridge.

JPK

There is a clear reason why the 300 Win. Mag. ran the '06 off of the Highpower Longrange course. It is superior at that range.

Fun thread...good discussion.....

IMO the single greatest advantage of the .30-06 over the .300 magnum is that lighter weight rifles are available in the .30-06 and that is worth a lot to me.

Dead Kudu is dead Kudu....I've never seen a deader one or a deadest one.

The .30-06 gets you a dead Kudu, the .300 Win mag gets you a deader one, a .300 Weatherby gets you a deadest one and a .300 Rum gets you a more deader one!......and the .30-06 can be had in a lighter weight package.....

Would someone throw another log on the fire!

....yes, another log, forget the .30 caliber in general when tackling kudu bull and take your .375.

I think that a great intermediate round between the -06 and the 300 Win Mag is the 300 Win Short Mag. I like the 300 WSM as I can handle it well, but the 300 Win Mag is a bit much from a recoil point of view. It's a geriatric thing with me.. When I was younger, I could handle the 300 Win Mag. And, I just like the looks of the 300WSM loaded round too.

Don

If I had to choose between one or the other I would keep the 300 win. I can easily download it to the performance of a 308 so I can use it almost anywhere from wis deer hunting to Alaska. BUT I do own both. One reason I love the 30-06 is alot of my buddies shoot that cartridge and keep giving me brass. I think I have a lifetime supply now. The 06 is my tinkering/practice gun.

I don't do any longer range shooting, especially when hunting, and I have not noticed the .300 killing any faster than the .30-06. Mine's a WSM, though, so maybe that has something to do with it! I might have to get a .300 Win. just to try it for giggles...more rifles, ooo...

The .300 Winny gives you both chamberings. You simply load the .300 down or up. Good shooting.

If you were a one rilfe hunter,
the 300 win might be the better choice , But not for the longer range.
I think a 300 mag with say a 200 or 220 grain partition, is a better round for a grizlly than a .30,06, but I say it would be better to have an 06 and a .338 or a whelen.
If in africa an 06 and a .375 H&H.
...tj3006

quote:

out of curiosity what do you think about the 30 06 vs the 300 win mag pros/cons, both

For a given bullet and zero, the .300 gives about 75-85 yards more range. At the expense of a much more flinch producing recoil. The added range and power mean little if the shooter loses accuracy.

Nice thing about .308 cal. bullets is that they're available from about 80 gr. to 220 gr. or more. And there's seemingly an endless selection of brass you can put behind these bullets.

"God packs a 30-06. Moses runs w/ .308 Win."

quote:

For a given bullet and zero, the .300 gives about 75-85 yards more range.

When one loads the .30-06 180 grainers to 2,800 FPS the amount of margin is even less than that. I'd say the number is quite generous at least.

However you're hitting the real performance difference between the '06 and the .300 Mags..... it's a bit of distance......and of value only to those whose shooting skills can use the margin.

A prudently loaded .30-06 is already such a good performer with ranges realistically at 350+ yards and frankly few hunters I know are fully capable of shooting that well.....the value of more range becomes meaningless.

This is true of many of the fast small caliber magnums....they deliver more range but only for a very few folks that can shoot that well.... and most of the time....that's not me!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
For a given bullet and zero, the .300 gives about 75-85 yards more range. At the expense of a much more flinch producing recoil. The added range and power mean little if the shooter loses accuracy.

The advantage is more like 170 yards. If you take the 180 gr Accubond which the 30-06 will push at 2800 fps in most rifles without getting pressure signs and in the 300 win mag at 3100 fps without much trouble, the 30-06 drops below 2000 fpe at ~340 yards and the 300 drops below 2000 fpe at ~510 yards.

It is a substantial increase. Is it necessary? That decision is up to each individual shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
If you were a one rilfe hunter,
the 300 win might be the better choice , But not for the longer range.
I think a 300 mag with say a 200 or 220 grain partition, is a better round for a grizlly than a .30,06, but I say it would be better to have an 06 and a .338 or a whelen.
If in africa an 06 and a .375 H&H.
...tj3006

I disagree and have carried an '06 quite often for protection while working alone in remote Grizzly country. I consider it a BETTER choice than any .300 Mag. as you have one more shot and it is easier to shoot well and quickly.

I do not see much REAL improvement over a 200 NP in the .06 until you get to the 9.3-286NP and .375-300 NP and even then, the difference is far less than most seem to think. I hasten to add that this is my subjective impression based on about a dozen Grizzlies I have seen shot.

I will probably be going to northern BC later this month to back my buddy on his Grizzly hunt and will take my .375H&H rifles, both P-64 Mod. 70s and WOULD NOT feel bad if I were to use a .30-06 with 200 NPs.

Thanks, Dewey!
I have considered for a while (about 5 years, actually) on getting a .338 Win. for bears, and elk, and moose, and deer, and coyotes, etc. but am thinking that I will just load a bigger bullet in my -06, and try that. I am familiar with the rifle, and don't have to adjust to huge increases in recoil. I am working on a 200 gr. Accubond load right now.

Good hunting,
Graham

I LOVE the .338WM, have had a dozen rifles so chambered and still have five. The 250 gr. premium bullets DO have somehat more "oomph" than anything in an .06, although I do not think the 210, etc. really do, BUT, even after 41+ years with this round, if, I do not shoot it regularly, the recoil will get to me.

Far better to use a 200NP at pushing 2700 in an .06 that has five rounds on tap and you are totally familiar with, I never felt under-gunned when in the bush with any .06 and still have four .06 rifles on hand, just in case.

But, you really should get that .338 anyway, a guy "needs" one.......

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:
There is a clear reason why the 300 Win. Mag. ran the '06 off of the Highpower Longrange course. It is superior at that range.

So the pro of the 300WM over the 30-'06 would be longer range.

The con is more muzzle blast, more recoil, more powder burned, more expensive to shoot at ranges that 99% + of people are going to hunt.

Wait, that's one pro to FOUR cons...

OOPS!

The 30-06 is one of the best balanced rounds ever devised and any cartridge that is an improvement over the 30-06 (no matter how slight) is a cartridge worth owning.

A 200grain Nosler Partition moving 2950fps destroys internals like an atom bomb yet destroys very little meat. I find this load just as effective as the 338Win.
In every rifle I have owned is this load has been unbelievably accurate out to 500 yards or so.....An average of just under 1.25 inches at 350 yards in my box stock Rem Sendero.

As far as recoil goes I realize that everyone has differing comfort levels, but I have a hard time describing the recoil generated as sever or difficult to master for an experienced rifleman? I do not personally know one experienced local rifleman that wouldn't feel comfortable with a 300.....My 12 year old son shoots my 12 pound (target) 300?

I own a stupid quantity of custom hunting and tactical rifles in dozens of calibers and I find the 300Win to perhaps be the most perfectly balanced "do all" round available.

If the recoil of a 9 pound 300 Win bothers you you might be well served by a 270, because a 30-06 in an 8 pound mountain rifle isn't coming back any easier....Something to think about.

I think you need to go with the .300 Win Mag and have a good muzzle brake installed.

My buddy has an old 30-06 on which he had a muzzle brake installed; it tamed the recoil while shooting 180 gr. bullets to that of a .243. His 12 year old shoots it for hunting as well and just killed his first big game animal with it, an antelope doe.

I recently got a Mod. 70 Classic Sharpshooter in .300 Win Mag. I took it to Score High Gunsmithing here in Albuquerque and had some work done to it. One of the features is a tactical muzzle brake. I hadn't even shot it before having the work done.






I took it out to do some load development and when I fired the first shot was braced for the worst.....I have a Browning A-Bolt in .300 WM that will knock your hat off..... . To my happy suprise, the Mod 70 while shooting a 190 gr. bullet at 3000 fps had the recoil of my 22-250. No exaggeration.

I know that the weight of the gun has a lot to do with it, but the brake really works. You could shoot 1000 rounds a day and never feel any discomfort.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by DocEd:
There is a clear reason why the 300 Win. Mag. ran the '06 off of the Highpower Longrange course. It is superior at that range.

So the pro of the 300WM over the 30-'06 would be longer range.

The con is more muzzle blast, more recoil, more powder burned, more expensive to shoot at ranges that 99% + of people are going to hunt.

Wait, that's one pro to FOUR cons...

OOPS!

Basically yes.
That said, I have now substituted a .300RUM for the .300Win for long range work.
Same issues, but even yet ,longer range.
The '06 is plenty of gun for 99% of most (not all)non-dangerous game hunting that 75% of most hunters engage in ; 200 yds and less.
It still is for the average "Joe Hunter" of the world the only thing they need, even if they won't admit it.

quote:

Originally posted by x-man:
If the recoil of a 9 pound 300 Win bothers you you might be well served by a 270, because a 30-06 in an 8 pound mountain rifle isn't coming back any easier....Something to think about.

The .270Win and the 30-'06 have virtually the same recoil with a 150g bullet in the same weight rifle (0.6 lbs difference).

Here is a chart that lists recoil energy and velocity for many popular cartridges.

Rifle Recoil Table

No doubt.

I was thinking 270 with 130grain bullets.

I ran some recoil calculations for comparison...

8 pound 270Win -130grain@3100fps-56 grain load .....19fpe
8 pound 30-06 -180grain@2800fps-56 grain load .....25fpe
9 pound 300Win -180grain@3000fps-75 grain load .....28fpe
9 pound 300Ultra-180grain@3400fps-95grain load .....40fpe

Chuck Hawks rated the 30-06 180grain bullet at 2700fps not the 2800 it is usually capable of.

The 308 and the 300 Mag are two of my favorite hunting calibres.

I have used both the 300 WBY and the 300 Win Mag.

The 300 Mag gives you @ 100 yards "more" than the 308 or the 30/06.

I pick the 300 Mag over the 308 when going on a long distance expensive hunt, where one shot at a distance might be the difference between success or not.

I also will use the 300 Mag with a 180/200gr bullet, when I might have to shoot something fairly big up close or far.

If I know I will be shooting something big up close I pick the 9,3x74R or the 375 H&H.

i've killed deer and elk with the 30-06, 300 rum, 300 win mag, and 300 wsm. other than the distance advantage i found in the rum, i just didn't see a difference between the 06' and the other 300's. i've since sold them all and hunt exclusively with my 06'. perhaps age (dislike for recoil) also had something to do with my decision, but i got an elk last year and several deer with no complaints. many like the 300's and i fully understand their preference, but they no longer interest me.

IMHO based upon taking impala, tsessebe, warthog, and whitetails with both, inside of 250-300yds the only difference is the 300 will tear up more meat and leave a larger exit hole.

I would say that the 30/06 is good to kill up to 300yds.
The 300 could kill at 600yds and feather

Uh Oh, here we go into the "the 300 is lightning in a bottle" bullshit that gave the magnums a bad name to begin with.
JPK has the figures pretty right IMO and I've been shooting a 300 for over 30 years. Nothing at 600 yards however. I'm a better hunter than that. Nor has it been my experience that a 300 will give you 170 yards of PBR over a 30-06.

I played with Remington's RemShoot ballistic program tonight. Interesting results. Using the Nosler 180gr Partition, since that was the only hunting bullet that I could find common amoungst all three cartridges, 308w, 30-06 and 300wm, in the Remington line-up here are the results of PBR with a 7" target (using 3.5" up and doen from line of sight as the parameters.)

308: 3.22" high @ 100yds = ~3.5" high @ 128yds, 236yd zero, ~277yds PBR.

30-06: 3.18" high @ 100yds = 3.515" high @ 135yds, 244yd zero, ~287yd PBR.

300wm: 3" high @ 100yds = 3.517" high @ 150yds, 262yd zero, ~308yd PBR.

Not a whole lot of difference at 31yds between 308w and 300wm, 21yds between 30-06 and 300wm.

Now, if planning to use a range finder and dial in or hold over while hunting, and you have 100% recall (or have brought a copy, taped one to the stock, etc.) of your actual - as opposed to theoretical - ballistics, PBR means little.

Using the same bullet and assuming 1000fpe, 1500fpe and 2000fpe as minimums here are the results:

308: 2000fpe @ 215yds, 1500fpe @ 395yds, 1000fpe @ 635yds

30-06" 2000fpe @ 255yds, 1500fpe @ 435yds, 1000fpe @ 675yds

300wm: 2000fpe @ 325yds, 1500fpe @ 480yds, 1000fpe @ 680yds

Again, not a whole lot of difference, especially between the 30-06 and the 300wm, and closing as range increases.

You can check these numbers using RemShoot, availble on Remington's website under Ballistics.

JPK

Hey JPK

What velocities are you using to put into the ballistics programs for the different calibers?

When I put the values into Pointblank as follows

180 gr Accubond
Ballistic coefficient of .507
30-06 muzzle velocity of 2800 fps
300 win mag muzzle velocity of 3100 fps
200 yard zero
Scope height above bore of 1.5"
Temperature of 70 degrees
Altitude of 500 feet

I get that the 30-06 energy is 2002 fpe at 340 yards and the 300 win mag energy is 2000 fpe at ~505 yards. That is a difference of 165 yards.

Where am I going wrong?

Woods,

Rather than input velocities or other data individually, I shortcut and used Remington factory ammo, which you can select in their program.

I selected 180gr Nosler Partitions because that was a common hunting bullet between the three cartridges. (BTW, found it supprising how little overlap there was between bullets, I would have chosen the 165gr or 180gr Sirroco given the opportunity.)

MV = 2960fps for the 300wm, 2700 for the '06 and 2620 for the 308. Stated BC = .474. The default atmospheric settings, which I used, are 0', 59*F, 78% humidity, 29.53" Hg.

Try the program if you like to see if I've missed or misread something (I did double check because I thought there'd be more difference.) Find it on Remington's website after clicking Ballistics. Or try the info above in PointBlank.

JPK