quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
I would say that the 30/06 is good to kill up to 300yds.
The 300 could kill at 600yds and feather

Errr....No.


Bullet selection is more important than caliber at long range. Chose a 180 grain bullet in your 300 as compared to a slippery 200 grainer out of the 30-06 and the 30-06 will actually outperform the 300.

Plug in a 200gr Accubond at 2700fps and a 180 Nosler Partition at 3050fps and tell me what you see?
This is why I select 200grain bullets when I use my 300.

Most hunters don't have the first clue as to what is important way out there...Flat trajectory doesn't mean chit at long range.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Woods,

Rather than input velocities or other data individually, I shortcut and used Remington factory ammo, which you can select in their program.

I selected 180gr Nosler Partitions because that was a common hunting bullet between the three cartridges. (BTW, found it supprising how little overlap there was between bullets, I would have chosen the 165gr or 180gr Sirroco given the opportunity.)

MV = 2960fps for the 300wm, 2700 for the '06 and 2620 for the 308. Stated BC = .474. The default atmospheric settings, which I used, are 0', 59*F, 78% humidity, 29.53" Hg.

Try the program if you like to see if I've missed or misread something (I did double check because I thought there'd be more difference.) Find it on Remington's website after clicking Ballistics. Or try the info above in PointBlank.

JPK

When I input the above criteria in Pointblank I get that the 300 win mag crosses the 2000 fpe mark at 385 yards rather than 325 yards. That is a 130 yard advantage over the 06.

I reload for 8 different 30-06's and 9 different 300 win mags and own one of each. To me it is realistic to use 2800 fps in the 06 and 3100 fps in the 300 win mag with the 180 gr bullets. I have gotten up to 2850 fps in the 06 but that was pushing real hard and close to 3200 fps in the 300 win mag.

I'm not saying one is better than the other just that there is a significant difference, at least ballistically.

Hmm, wonder why the difference in the models?

My .300 Win Mag seems to hit harder, hence I use it for most animals. I shot some prairie dogs with it and it definitely will splatter them.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

When I input the above criteria in Pointblank I get that the 300 win mag crosses the 2000 fpe mark at 385 yards rather than 325 yards. That is a 130 yard advantage over the 06.

I reload for 8 different 30-06's and 9 different 300 win mags and own one of each. To me it is realistic to use 2800 fps in the 06 and 3100 fps in the 300 win mag with the 180 gr bullets. I have gotten up to 2850 fps in the 06 but that was pushing real hard and close to 3200 fps in the 300 win mag.

I'm not saying one is better than the other just that there is a significant difference, at least ballistically.

Here is a perfect example of why I don't use 180 grain bullets in the 300Win.

Take the 200gr Nosler Accubond and shoot it from the 30-06 at 2700fps and you will maintain you magic 2000fpe all the way to 400 yards (1991 fpe to be exact)!

In other words the 30-06 with slippery 200 grain bullets has more long range power than the 300Win with 180's...

See what I mean?

Hey x-man,

You really and truely get 2700 fps with the 200 gr bullet out of your '06?

My buddy gets that with the 180's in his.

The Hodgdon reloading center shows velocities with the '06 and 200 grainers around 2300 to 2500 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Hey x-man,

You really and truely get 2700 fps with the 200 gr bullet out of your '06?

My buddy gets that with the 180's in his.

The Hodgdon reloading center shows velocities with the '06 and 200 grainers around 2300 to 2500 fps.

No.

2660fps is as good as I can do.
My buddy does see an honest 2700...I'm thinking pressures are getting up there and he can't see it.

The Hodgon data is a bit conservative in defense of old rifles (check the pressure they post).

Don't get me wrong I'm not say the 30-06 is as good as the 300Win. I am saying the wrong bullet hobbles the 30Win at long range.

Food for thought so to speak.

With either Norma or WW brass, CCI 250s, RE-22 and the 200NP, most 24" tubed .06s will just cut 2700 fps-mv.

This load has never given me pressure problems and is a find Elk-Moose-Grizzly option in an .06.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
With either Norma or WW brass, CCI 250s, RE-22 and the 200NP, most 24" tubed .06s will just cut 2700 fps-mv.

This load has never given me pressure problems and is a find Elk-Moose-Grizzly option in an .06.

The Accubond will raise pressure quite a bit.
If find it a bit slower than the Partition.

As much as I like Accubonds and X-bullets (check my name) IMHO the 200gr Partition is the finest hunting 30 cal bullet ever made.

The 300win mag is a second generation and improved version of the 06... Have shot groundhogs out to 600yds with 180gr Horndays' out of a 26 inch barrel... Shoots a long way..

Mike

I don't know about 2700 fps for a 200 gr. NP from an '06. I certainly haven't done it.

That aside, there are few situations where I would choose to live with the inefficiency of a 300 mag. Sheep and goats, maybe, but that is a better 270-280 niche. Caribou, moose, elk? With modern bullets an '06 will do anything necessary for those out to 350 yards, and again a big 338 or 358 is really a better fit. As far as I can tell there isn't much call for a cartridge to fly 200+ gr. .308 bullets out to 300+ yds with authority. I really like 30 cal 200 grain NPs, A-Frames, etc. as short range bear/moose bullets and the '06 is a fine delivery system. Switching from a full mag of 150 CoreLocts to a full mag of 220 gr. Woodleighs or NPs gives peace of mind when bears start following the drag trail and another niche for the '06.

Can you do all of that with a 300 WM, sure. But the cost is more powder, expensive components, heavier rifle, and optics obligated to be set up for something beyond spitting range.

I totally agree about the 200 gr Accubond. It is in a class by itself in the 30 caliber bullets. I shoot it a lot in both the 30-06 and the 300 win mag



but the question was about a comparison between the 30-06 and the 300 win mag. Using that bullet and 2900 fps in the 300 win mag it crosses the 2000 fpe mark at 545 yards which still gives it a 145 yard advantage.

Now granted few will ever have to shoot at 545 yards or even 400 yards but if you ever practice enough, have a rifle capable enough and a perfect opportunity with no wind at a target that you can not get closer to, the 300 win mag still offers a significant advantage.

Here, with the 200gr Accubonds, I don't see the yardage gain between 2000fpe thresholds as any advantage, for me at least. 400 yds is well beyond where I would shoot anything that needs 2000fpe.

Some advantage in either of the models using the 180gr NP though, assuming 2000fps is a reasonable threshold which must be met for some game that will be shot at 250-~350yds. And 350yds remains farther than where I would shoot anything requiring 2000fpe.

I still maintain that the real advantage of the 300wm over the 30-06 is the ability to shoot heavier bullets - for terminal perfomnce, ie greater penetration - at adequate speeds and maintain PBR with more bullet weight.

JPK

I see that Wood's load of 61-RE-22 gives the 200AB some 2691 fps-mv. That is a warmish load and it is as close to 2700 fps. as can be; the #6 Nosler gives about the same with 58-RE-22, a load I use with 200NPs which will just cut 2700 in my Brno-ZG-47 with a 23.6" factory tube in essentially new condition.

With P-64 Mod. 70s in .30-06, of which I have owned several, with their 24" tubes, you will get, as I posted, about 2700 with the Nosler book load. My Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine gives an honest 2725 with 180NPs and I am sure it will do at least 2650 with 200s, although I have not chrono'd that load in it...will try when the spring rains slow up a bit.