I am trying to decide what to fill the void with between 338 and 416 caliber.

The list started:
9.3x62
9.3 x 64 Brenneke
375 Ruger
375 H&H

As you can see, I have crossed off two. The Brenneke just has more powder than the 62. Ballistics show it to be pretty much the equal of the H&H.

And I can't bring myself to own a 375 H&H again, especially when I can get the job done in a rifle with a standard action thanks to the new cartridge.

The action is going to be a CZ 550 that currently has a 338-06 barrel on it. The action will get a thorough work over by a competent smith.

Here's what I feel it is going come down to. American stock design-375 Ruger.
Hogback- Brenneke

My gun cabinet:
22-250 (1)
270 Win (2)
338-06 (3)
416 Rigby (1)

My 270 and 338-06's have NA covered.

This will go along to Africa behind the 416 Rigby for plains game and DG backup.

Or should I just sell the rifle and put the $$ towards an Africa trip.

Please share your opinions.

well there is the 9.5x64 a classic but not well known cart. that has the 375 bullet that wont have issue in qualification for d.g.
then the 9,5x66
http://www.municion.org/VomHofe/9_5x66SE.htm
then the 375 dakota
the 9,5x64 wont be around in stores so it might as well be a wildcat like the 66 and dakota. in a few years the ruger might be around in alaska and african stores.

the 375 ruger seems the most simple if you dont want the h+h.

I chose the 9.3x64. The Ruger came out after. Won't give up the x64, but the Ruger would have been a good choice.

I'd say go with a 375 Ruger on the Hogback.
If you desire history the x64 is great!

I would opt for a the 9.3x64 out of the ones you mention. My reasoning is......338 and .366 rounds seem to pair up nicely with .416 and .404 J rifles.

.375 cals are best left paired with .458 cals, if your .416 had of been a .458 lott I would have voted .375 Ruger.

I know you don't want to hear it but I would chose the 375 H&H. The required action is not any longer on some actions very little on others. The H&H just exudes class and it just gets the job done. Lou

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
I would opt for a the 9.3x64 out of the ones you mention. My reasoning is......338 and .366 rounds seem to pair up nicely with .416 and .404 J rifles.

.375 cals are best left paired with .458 cals, if your .416 had of been a .458 lott I would have voted .375 Ruger.

Good reasoning!! I unknowingly paired nicely without planning! Good Karma I suppose.

9.3Brenneke

Gee, this seems like no brainer. Where are you going to get 9.3x64 ammo in 'Black Mining Fields of Dakota'? Is that a cute nickname for Black Forest region of Germany?

Well it would not be my first choice, but cases can be had. I think RWS makes them and Huntington carries them. Just buy 300 to 500 of them and you would be all set. If I am not mistaken, you could find your self a machine shop, and have them turn off the belt on a 338 Winchester Case and you can then neck up and fire form. Either way its not going to be cheap. Then again with Hornaday making 9.3 x 72 R cases and loaded ammo, they just may make 9.3 x 64 at some point. Why its not chambered in American rifles, beats me. But like all things Metric, they don't do well in America. I think a plain jane 375 H+H is the way to go. Thou the new 375 Ruger has a lot of merit to it, or you could just neck up the 375 Ruger case to 9.3 and call it the 9.3 x 62 or what ever the mm lenght will be American , Ruger or buckwheat. Its all nothing more than picking nits.

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
I would opt for a the 9.3x64 out of the ones you mention. My reasoning is......338 and .366 rounds seem to pair up nicely with .416 and .404 J rifles.

.375 cals are best left paired with .458 cals, if your .416 had of been a .458 lott I would have voted .375 Ruger.

Plus 1+++++++

I paired my 9.3x64Br (loaded with 286 North fork bullets) with my 500/416 double (410 gr Woodleighs) and soon will compliment my 400 H&H (loaded with 400 gr Swift or Woodleighs) bolt rifle.

GREAT combo.

Brass and bullets are NO problem as sourced from those mentioned above. I reload most all my hunting ammo so over the counter ammo availability has not been a consideration.

quote:

or you could just neck up the 375 Ruger case to 9.3 and call it the 9.3 x 62 or what ever the mm lenght will be American , Ruger or buckwheat. Its all nothing more than picking nits.

I already thought about the wildcat, but that isn't an option. I would just go with the 375 then. I sold mine and all the reloading stuff that went with it.

quote:

Gee, this seems like no brainer. Where are you going to get 9.3x64 ammo in 'Black Mining Fields of Dakota'? Is that a cute nickname for Black Forest region of Germany?

The Black Hills lie in Western South Dakota and spill over into Wyoming.

Brass and dies are available. 9.3 caliber bullets are fairly easy to find. Not a huge amount of choices, but more than enough to get the job done. I haven't shot any factory ammo for quite a few years.

The Beatles had a song "Rocky Raccoon" and in the song they reference the Black Mining Hills of Dakota. Appropriate, as I work in the infamous Deadwood, SD. Same place as Saterlee Arms.

Live 20 miles from the Sturgis motorcycle rally, Dakota Arms LLC, Corbon ammo, Superior ammunition, Searcy has a shop here, and Jamison brass.

50 miles from HS Precision, Black Hills Ammo, and Accurate Innovation stocks in Rapid City.

Another 35 miles from Newell, SD. Bill Soverns and Jim Anderson (Gunmaker here on AR).

I am probably missing someone, but there are a few gunnuts around.

I know the H&H has all the history and nostagia, but that one is already crossed off the list.

Just picking some brains and seeing what everyone else's opinion is.

Thanks for the replies.

SD, just do them both and you can argue which is better down the road. timan is doing my 9.3 Brenn and I have a vz24 that is looking for a .375 chambering-Ruger with out the belt and in the ole standard action

Definately the 9.3x64, pick up mine in a couple of days.
Tasso

I'd go for the 9.3x64 if you really wanted another toy.

However, I would recommend you sell the rifle and book a trip to Africa. I'm only guessing, but I'd reckon that you, like most of us at AR, have enough rifles to cover all our needs, but certainly not enough African experiences. Jim

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
I am trying to decide what to fill the void with between 338 and 416 caliber.

The list started:
9.3x62
9.3 x 64 Brenneke
375 Ruger
375 H&H

The Brenneke just has more powder than the 62. Ballistics show it to be pretty much the equal of the H&H.

This will go along to Africa behind the 416 Rigby for plains game and DG backup.

Or should I just sell the rifle and put the $$ towards an Africa trip.

Please share your opinions.

I would still consider 9,3x62. 64 does have more "room"...as well as recoil that comes along...62 will do anything that 64 would in a lighter rifle with shorter barrel with less recoil - that is if you realy want to fill the void that I don't see, so after all I would pick your last option - sell the rifle and spend the bucks downthere.

quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:
I'm only guessing, but I'd reckon that you, like most of us at AR, have enough rifles to cover all our needs. Jim

That is just vomitous talk!

9.3x64 gets my vote....

9.3x64 would be my choice. Excellent heavy bullets are availible that penetrate and get the job done.

well the ruger and 9,5(375)x64 can do light to heavy with weights in range of 200 to 350 grains...

these cheap 200 grainers as well as the 220 grain spire points should be great for everything up to deer. they would move pretty fast and flat.


the new 375 ruger is the do-all gun.

I vote for the 9.3x64. But then I am pretty weird and like to be different.

Also, who knows how well the .375 Ruger will take off. If it is not a dahsing success, ammo and brass will be harder to find. Well, it is already hard to find, but surely it will get better over the next year. The 9.3x64 has been around for a long time and components, though not everywhere or cheap, should be readily available for the forseeable future.

The .375 Ruger got my vote, and I think my rifle is an excellent acquisition. It is lighter than my .375 H&Hs, so makes for easier carrying whether it is Africa or North America.

Ammo availability is already better than 9.3X64, as are reloading components.

I like the various Brenneke cartridges, but on this side of the pond they are not as practical as the local competition.

jim

Here's taste for you. Of the four on your list, the two I own and that interest me are the two you crossed out!

I own two .375 H&Hs and two 9.3x62mms, and if I had to choose all over again, I would choose the same pair.

Not to say that the Brenneke or the Ruger have any flies on them. It's just a matter of what fires your pistons and turns your crankshaft.

i gotta git mees a 375 rooger...

Trendy, or Old School? Everyone knows just what the X64B will do. Nobody knows what the 375R will actually do, except Hornady has already revised the velocity data once; and pulled all their loaded ammunition and replaced the powder charge. Being on the cutting edge means you may slice your fingers if you are not careful. I am prone to let somebody else blaze the trails and go get mine after all the kinks worked out. Remember the 376 Steyr? The what.......?

Rich
DRSS

IdahoSS,
I dont think were in for any nasty surprises.

There is nothing you cannot kill with your 338-06 that you will with the choices you have.

Well at least for me the time has come to travel to the gunsmith tonight and pick up the 9.3x64.


Tasso

Nice to hear some cheers for The 9.3x64Beereneke
This Is a Lee Helgeland
job I handled at Reno.
ITS REAL Simple!!.....
1.Put that rifle in your hands and
2. Youll find that you stop thinking about any other cartridge and
3.Youll find you just wants to goezahuntn'.

Very nice, Woodjack!!!!!!!!!!!!

depends.. do you shoot A BUNCH and reload? if so, then the 375 ruger is going to be a better friend in the long run...

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
9.3Brenneke

Yepp!

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
Nice to hear some cheers for The 9.3x64Beereneke
This Is a Lee Helgeland
job I handled at Reno.
ITS REAL Simple!!.....
1.Put that rifle in your hands and
2. Youll find that you stop thinking about any other cartridge and
3.Youll find you just wants to goezahuntn'.

How did the open sights fall off this lovely rifle ?

ozhunter

I'd get either of the 9.3's or the .375H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Trendy, or Old School? Everyone knows just what the X64B will do. Nobody knows what the 375R will actually do, except Hornady has already revised the velocity data once; and pulled all their loaded ammunition and replaced the powder charge. Being on the cutting edge means you may slice your fingers if you are not careful. I am prone to let somebody else blaze the trails and go get mine after all the kinks worked out. Remember the 376 Steyr? The what.......?

Rich
DRSS

Rich:

You have hit the nail on the head. The 9.3x62 & 9.3x64 are both well proven rounds. The 376 Steyr was designed to duplicate the 375H&H in a short action and on this one point this it was successful, despite being somewhat of a commercial letdown.

The 375 Ruger appears to only be designed to sell more rifles, that is not always a bad thing.

I remember a lot of people saying the 17HMR and 204 Ruger would be flash in the pan rounds so to speak. Yet they are huge commercial successes.

Ruger should have looked at the field reports on the 375H&H with heavy bullets (330-380gr), and perhaps taken their new round in that direction. Offering to provide factory performance to duplicate handloaders efforts.

Woodjack,
That Helgeland rifle is very easy on the eyes.
If she handles as good as she looks....

quote:

There is nothing you cannot kill with your 338-06 that you will with the choices you have.

It wouldn't be my first choice, nor probably legal but if my 416 went south on me. But a few extra rounds of 338-06 loaded with 275gr A-frames would probably suffice on Buffalo, followed by some solids.

That statement is one of the main reasons I'm having such trouble deciding. Probably why this project will get put on hold.

SDhunter,

If this helps I can tell you, that Lee 9.3x64 had instant appeal.
Ive handled some mighty fine .375hhDropBoxMagnumMausers from some of the best(GMA,H&Weiss,H&H) as nice as they were,that 9.3x64 felt a favorably more lively& desirable long term hunting tool,for Sure.
Maybe the sight of a 9.3x64/286gnNF will sway you..

I owned a CZ in 375 H&H. The rifle shot lights out. But it was a typical CZ, a little clubby, and too heavy for a H&H in my humble opinion.

I ended up buying one in 416 Rigby and having it tweaked here and there. I am absolutely satisfied with the way it turned out.

Thanks for all the replies, it's nice to bounce stuff off other people every once in awhile.

Boomstick,

You're making a valid argument for the Ruger. I should probably just sit down and do a checklist. But nostaglia weighs heavily on my mind.

I know I'm American, but I have all European ancestry (German, French, & English).

Germany does have some pretty good engineering history. It would do well to pay a little homage.