I usually make rifle decisions based on pretty sound logic, but can't seem to get away from the attraction to the 358 Win. I have a Sako in 338 Federal, which is really kind of a modernized 358, but it still doesn't scratch the itch. I prefer bolt rifles or even single-shots to lever guns, so the choices in factory rifles is quite limited. I'm thinking maybe finding a Remington Model 7 Mannlicher from the custom shop and having Jim Kobe convert it to 358.

The unique sound: "Bang-Thump" is what you hear when the song is well directed.

Everytime I see a 358W or even a 350RM in a Ruger Hawkeye for sale, I am tempted to get one. They are hard to find and few companies seem to make them on a factory rifle basis. I love the Ruger Hawkeyes and they are not making these calibers anymore in the wood or syn/SS models.

My hangup is all of the 35 Whelens that I own, and I can't see what I'd gain, other than a shorter action. My Ruger Whelens weigh about 7 lbs. (SS/syn), so I am happy with that weight.

Well, one of these days maybe I just need to take the plunge and see what these short actions are all about.

This is largely speculation on my part but while the 35 Whelen was a popular wildcat it was preceded as a factory round by 33 years in the form of the 358 Winchester.

One of my oldest friends and a mentor had intended to build a custom 35 Whelen when Winchester introduced the 358. He opted to go that route with a model 70 Featherweight rather than commit to the expense of a custom rifle at the time. I think many others may have done the same thing.

He carried that rifle for much of the rest of his life, killing more deer and elk than most of us will ever dream of. His bullet of choice all those years was the Speer 250 grain spitzer and he never wanted for anything else in a bullet. In his estimation it killed like a hammer and in his own words, "you could eat the bullet hole."

My theory is the 358 gained its solid reputation when a few gun writers and enough hunters tried the 358 who might have otherwise built a 35 Whelen during the 33 years prior to the Whelen's adoption as a factory round.

With the desire today for powerful, compact short action rifles, the 358 will always have some devoted followers. And rightfully so. It's doubtful it will ever have the popularity of the 35 Whelen but that is in no way a criticism of its performance. It'll handle anything in North America with ease.

While I am a devoted 35 Whelen shooter I can see the attraction for the 358.

Compact rifle, plenty of power, manageable recoil, good bullet choices, solid record of performance on game. What's not to like?

I seem to recall that " back in the day" the .358 was being suggested as a replacement for the M71 in .348 win. The M88 Lever action was introduced, and the Savage 99. I recall absolutely lusting after the 99F in .358. Didn't happen though..

Yes, I've had Model 71 Winchesters, and Model 88 Winchesters in 358 are WAY overpriced. But I like a bolt rifle. I was looking today at the Cooper website, and they make a sweet little Mannlicher that comes in 358. Hmmmmm...

I have a Ruger Hawkeye Stainless in .358 and love the gun. Low noise and recoil, unlike a magnum. I handload 250gr bullets at ~2300 and the performance is superb. Everything I've shot has dropped dead immediately.

Last year in Burkina I shot a hartebeest at almost 200 yds and a shot on a bushbuck traversed the entire length of the body with a Nosler Partition. The Speer Hot Cor is also a good choice given the low velocity, I've shot several whitetail with it. I think the large diameter and heavy bullets give it an effect that isn't reflected in the paper numbers.

For a long while the Hawkeye stainless were selling for $550-600 and I often considered buying a spare. I regret it now.

That Mannlicher is nice but the stock looks a little chunky, don't know if it's just the photo. I don't care for the big knob on the foreend.

There's a new blued Hawkeye for sale on gunbroker but a little pricey. I see the M77s on sale quite often.

Yes, not sure on that image...I'd have to see one in person. I guess the 358 reminds me of the 9.3x62, just a step down in power. Big bullets at about 2,400 fps seem to be pretty effective.

Jon, I might be sweet-talked out of my circa 1948 Remington Model 141 in the .358's granddad, the .35 Remington. Why put up with all that awful speed and noise?

Bill, that's a cool rifle! The 35 Rem is a similar design...heavy and slow....kind of like most of the guys logged onto this website! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Bill, that's a cool rifle! The 35 Rem is a similar design...heavy and slow....kind of like most of the guys logged onto this website! :-)

Hey! I resemble that remark.

If the shoe fits.... :-)

I think the biggest problem is one of perception and not getting the right press, or rather the wrong press over time.

The 35 Rem lovers go nuts when even the suggestion of re-chambering to 35 Win blows by and it is an excellent woods rifle in its own right.

When hunters want to go to a bigger caliber they ALSO want to go to a bigger case irregardless of the fact of the already excellent ballistics of the 358 Win will handle all N.A. game...IF they want to go bigger, everyone wants to go BIGGER all the way around, and the 358 Win just seems smaller, all the way around.

It's the same deal with all the other excellent cartridges like the 307/356, 338 Fed and Marlin Express, 8mmRM and 325 SWM, and just how many OTHER very good cartridges that have come and ALMOST gone...we humans are NEVER satisfied.

I know you've all heard this before(about MOST other calibers/cartridges), I've had both the 358 Win and 35 Whelan in the past and found them BOTH excellent at their jobs and traded/re-barreled when I found another toy to try...I still have a Marlin 356 Win that travels with me most of the time and a Shilen 35 cal blank from long ago that needs to be kitted out, that didn't quite get to the 358 Norma or 35 RUM stage.

If you want one...just do it...I don't see a limit on receivers or who does it, lots of barrel makers and excellent gunsmiths and, FWIW, using a standard receiver will give you MUCH more latitude in bullet selection and seating or cause too many problems in the OAL length or weight categories.

Always...too many choices, not enough time, not enough money.

LUCK

My favorite round, not sure why...
I have a custom Sako AII action and a short action M70, both chambered for the 358w. Wouldn't trade them for anything. I prefer 225 Sierras and NABs at 2500 fps for coyotes to elk. The 358w just works...and I am always the only one in camp that has one.

Biebs I had a Sav 99F in 358 for a number of years. Best little moose rifle I had ever carried. Kills way out of proportion to the size of the round. I also like bolt actions. I was going to build one in a Rem M7 or a Tikka M55 whichever I could find a donor rifle first. Well I found a Tikka and had Harry McGowan make a barrel for it. The 358 Tikka shoots so nice I finally parted with the old Savage. 225 gr partitions work very well on anything. The 200 gr Hornady is ideal on big whitetails in the bush and the 200 gr Barnes TSX also works on just about anything. A short bolt action with a 20 in barrel in 358 will handle just about any animal in North America. Build it....you will not be sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I'm thinking maybe finding a Remington Model 7 Mannlicher from the custom shop and having Jim Kobe convert it to 358.

You might be able to find one factory chambered in 358 win.

Matt, a Remington Model 7 in 358 Winchester? That would be a new one on me.

well, after the 7x64, this is the best medium game cart invented --

yeah, i like the 358 .. i've had at least 10 of them, built several, and love them

sierra 225gr game kings at 2450-2500 will kill anything big enough to die in north america

and can make from 308 cases ...

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Matt, a Remington Model 7 in 358 Winchester? That would be a new one on me.

I just figured that since the original MS carbine rifles were offered in 9x56 MS (Starting with the 1905 Model, I believe), some folks might have ordered a Model 7MS in a modern equivelant caliber, which would be the 358 Win. Rem has made several in 350 Rem mag. I want an Oberdorf Type M (or a custom clone) in 9x57, 9.3x57, or 9.3x62. A Model 7 MS in 358 Win would be super cool!!!

I've seen one chambered in 35 Reminton, so I think the 358 might be possible.

I like my Browning BLR in 358. It is the second generation which is more compact than the current model. It is very handy to carry in timber while hunting elk. It shoots MOA with Hornady 200 grain spitzers. It has performed well on elk, deer and turkey.

When I was a boy (about 50 years ago) I read that the 358 Win was a minor failure, mainly because it kicked more than the 35 Rem and the recoil-comfort benchmark, the .30'06.

However, after reading an article by Wal Winfer, I wanted to get one in the Savage 99 to use on our big bush deer. I couldn't find one, so bought a 338WM and loaded it back to 358 velocities until someone gave me some factory ammo, which did not seem to kick any more.

The 358 Win is a nice, efficient little cartridge for which you should never have trouble finding cheap brass.

For some reason the .35's just have never had staying power with the average hunter. Too bad because they all seem to do a good job with little fuss.

I really like them though I've only had two, a .35 Whelen long ago and the .350 Rem mag I still have. The .350 is my favorite black bear rifle. I've always lusted for a .358 in a Savage 99 but haven't found one for a decent price.

I think one of the reasons the average hunter hasn't appreciated the .35's more is because velocity seems to be all most folks are after.
Feet per second sells a lot of guns.

I have found bullets in the 2400 to 2700 fps range kill very well.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
For some reason the .35's just have never had staying power with the average hunter. Too bad because they all seem to do a good job with little fuss.

Nah, it's just a US thing -- in Europe and the rest of the world, the 9mm rifle carts have been around for about 100 years and are highly desired

I think it's recoil .. american shooters tend to be much more recoil sensitive -- heck, there's a distinction between 270 and 30-06 recoil, in the same platform ---

quote:

I think it's recoil .. american shooters tend to be much more recoil sensitive

Or could it be we just have millions more shooters in the US there fore we have a lot more opinions.

Love the 358 . I just finished a Mauser 98 in 358 win for a friend , he plans on using lead bullets for practice and turkey ?
It got me to dig out a Remington 600 in 35 Remington . Talk about a light rifle , I wouldn't change a thing on it . I originally purchased it ( 20-25 yrs ago ) for a PPC project . Never happened .
What twist are you all using , I chose a 1-10

If I had to sell all my rifles but one, my Ruger all weather M77 in 358 Win would very likely be the one I'd keep. It has become my favorite. The attributes of this caliber have already been covered but, I will add that it is an easy caliber to reload. There are a number of good performing bullets available and I've not had much of a problem finding brass. I use a good strong charge of Ramshot TAC over 225 gr. NP's which has proven the most accurate load for me.

I've only taken one buck so far with the rifle and it was one of the quickest kills I've made. I would be very comfortable taking an animal out to 250 yards or perhaps a bit further. Fury01 is absolutely right; it's that "Bang-"Thump" (hard thump) that is assuring to most hunters.

Found a Sako 358 barreled action courtesy of triple4 here, and a mannlicher stock for the Sako L579. I'll have Jim Kobe turn it into a sweet little mannlicher carbine, with NECG Masterpiece sights, steel grip cap and nosepiece, custom bottom metal, straight shank teardrop 3-panel bolt knob, dark refinished wood, and my usual 1" red recoil pad. Can't wait! :-)

Biebs, looks like your new 9.3x62 will have a new safe mate. Sounds like you've got a nice one! While the 358 Win is a step down from the 9.3, both are hard hitting rounds and would probably work equally well for most NA game. I actually prefer hunting with my 358 Win mainly because it is lighter to carry and shoulders better than my heavier CZ 550 9.3.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Found a Sako 358 barreled action courtesy of triple4 here, and a mannlicher stock for the Sako L579. I'll have Jim Kobe turn it into a sweet little mannlicher carbine, with NECG Masterpiece sights, steel grip cap and nosepiece, custom bottom metal, straight shank teardrop 3-panel bolt knob, dark refinished wood, and my usual 1" red recoil pad. Can't wait! :-)

Jon,
sounds like a really cool project,I know it will soon come up for sale ha ha,I am going to start saving

I have always toyed with the idea of rechambering my Midwest deer rifle (Rem 7) to either .338 Federal or .358 Winchester, but then I get to thinking, when did my .308 Win fail to kill a deer?

That's what confuses many. The 358 is so much more than just a deer rifle. It stops bear, elk moose and hogs with so much more authority than smaller calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I have always toyed with the idea of rechambering my Midwest deer rifle (Rem 7) to either .338 Federal or .358 Winchester, but then I get to thinking, when did my .308 Win fail to kill a deer?

That's been my problem too. I've been sitting on a standard 700 bedded in a mountain rifle stock purchased just for .358 conversion. But its hard mess with a very practical and effective 308.

No doubt that Snowman's comment is absolutely true. But I already have a whelen I think I will always grab that over a .358 for bigger stuff. But somehow my soft spot for .35s will win over.....

Jon, the only reason I can think of as to why the .358 Win never caught on was that it didn't look big and powerful enough for folks who bought into the sizzle and hype of the big belted magnums.
It is a great round.
Even the famous old Alaskan guide Hal Waugh, wrote about how much he liked his M-70 ftw

He wrote " The public let one of the finest little ( big guns) go down the river when they overlooked the .358" Hal claimed it was "a fast, wicked outfit in close" and was one of his favorites " for emergencies such as brown bears wounded in the alders"

This was from a man famous for his love of his .375.

quote:

Originally posted by dean119:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I have always toyed with the idea of rechambering my Midwest deer rifle (Rem 7) to either .338 Federal or .358 Winchester, but then I get to thinking, when did my .308 Win fail to kill a deer?

That's been my problem too. I've been sitting on a standard 700 bedded in a mountain rifle stock purchased just for .358 conversion. But its hard mess with a very practical and effective 308.

No doubt that Snowman's comment is absolutely true. But I already have a whelen I think I will always grab that over a .358 for bigger stuff. But somehow my soft spot for .35s will win over.....

That is my issue: I use a .338 WM for almost everything bigger than deer.

quote:

I know it will soon come up for sale ha ha,I am going to start saving Big Grin

Bal, you can put it in the safe next to my old Dakota African 338 Lapua :-)

Love mine---had it built in the early 70's. Mark X action and Flaigs (Pa) put a Douglas 22" bbl on it. Origionaly had a fancy Bishop or Fajan stock (can't remember) on it but later had a McMillan put on. Shot great with both the Nosler PT or Sierra (practice) 225 gr. Shot a lot of deer with that rifle and a few black bear---always one shot one kill.
Been loading the 250 gr. Speers lately---real accurate and am getting 2426 fps. avg. with ww 748. Brass I just neck up Rem. or Win. .308 brass in one pass. Love that rifle!

Hip

I first read about the 358 Win in the early 70s as a teenager - Col Charles Askins took a Savage 99 to Africa and shot a lot of PG out to 250 meters. https://www.abebooks.com/book-...ins-colonel-charles/ That hard bound book with amazing photos still stays in my memory - in parts.

About 20 years ago I came across a used Mod 88 rebarreled to 358 Win with a SS bull barrel 26 inchs. Terrible job.

I grabbed the rifle as I had a Win M70 push feed shot action youth rifle in 243 Win. I got my gunsmith to swap the barrels & sold the Mod 88 in 243.

I got the M70 done with a slimmer trimmed 20" barrel and added a stock extension. Later I put a synthetic stock (imported from Canada at a bargain!!!)

That rifle shot bug holes with Sierra 225gr GK spitzers and dropped big red deer like a chainsaw on a pine tree.

That rifle carried and handled like a dream. Pointed instinctively and I took snap shots without really thinking.

I sold it about 8 years ago as I was short of funds!