I'm looking to buy a tikka hunter next year and I'm down to a 270 win. or wsm. This is to be my new deer rifle( my 300 winny takes care of the big game). Is there a difference(enough) to make it worth while? Extra cost and availabity of the wsm concern me. I'm not a reloader so remove that from the equation. Your expereinces please.

quote:

Originally posted by bc300winguy:
Is there a difference(enough) to make it worth while? Extra cost and availabity of the wsm concern me. I'm not a reloader so remove that from the equation.

The choice is simple... the 270 Winchester.

if you like the lighter gun and dont mind parting with a lot of dough with a cart that has not withstood the test of time...why not. better yet get a 280 rem. the 270 is the conservative choice but the 270wsm does have a few advantages but more disadvantages. i say buy the 300 rum and have you will never need another rifle unless you get into some serious big game. the only reason to get the 270 is for either flatter shooting or lighter recoil otherwise the 30-06 is the king of do it all. if recoil is not an issue and you like the flattest shooting with the ability to give brown bears incurable heartburn...300 rum 270 wsm

Since the Tikka's are all made on the one action length, there will be no weight saving to be had, in going with the 270WSM.
BUT, if you don't reload, the 270WSM offers a real advantage over the 270Win. The typical velocities of 270Win are overstated (some by as much as 400fps!) where the WSM's stated velocity is usually about right.
I don't recall seeing a Tikka in 270WSM, so it would pay to make sure you don't lose a round in the mag, if that is important.
If all you are going to do is use it as a deer rifle, then either will do fine.
If you do go with the 270Win, stick to the premium loads, they are usually close to their advertised velocity. Plus you can get 270Win pretty well much anywhere in the world, the WSM's can be a little harder to find (and a bit more expensive), but in a couple of years, who knows? They may then be as common as the 30-06.

Merry Christmas.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

The typical velocities of 270Win are overstated

No they aren't! The only 270 win factory ammo that hasn't made published velocity in my guns is Remington. With the new Hi Energy rounds the .270 virtually matches the WSM round.

Gentlemen
6,8X64(270) Winchester would be my choice

Cheers
/JOHAN

bc300winguy ----- I never owned a .270, but loaded several for buddies and it is a very fine cartridge indeed, and always will be. The .270 WSM fascinated me from the time it was announced, simply because as good as the .270 was, it was advertised to be better ballistically. I shoot many large bores and wanted something smaller to keep my trigger pull honest, therefore a good excuse to buy the WSM. I bought the WSM in the Model 70 Winchester and is this thing awesome. I chrony 98% of all my shots with an Oehler 35P and load all my own stuff, so I know exactly what it does with all loads. A 130 grain North Fork at 3455 fps is my fastest with no pressure signs with averages around 3400 fps. My accuracy loads is 140 grain Barnes TSX at 3300 fps and 150 grain North Forks at 3250 fps. The .270 Win cannot do that folks. I am
not saying get rid of the .270's, they will always be a great cartridge and have their place in your vault, but they are not what the WSM is. The WSM has the same great .277 caliber bullet, with a lot more UMPHH. The new buyer just has to decide what he or she wants, and go for it. Good shooting.

It depends what you're looking for. The WSM will give you more velocity, without a doubt. Physics hasn't repealed any action-reaction laws, though, and the greater velocity will mean greater recoil.

Also, if you, like me, have ever left your deer-hunting handloads on the reloading table, the ability to buy the "old 270" at almost any store could save you a long search for replacements.

Jaywalker

If you are definately going with the Tikka, then it really does not matter because action length is the same.

I bought 270 WSM in a lightweight/short action gun and it shoots great. I look forward to working up a Barnes MRX load this spring. The recoil in a light weight 270 WSM gun is managable. However, the 300 WSM shooting a 180 gr bullet in a light weight configuration does thump.

Although I don't own a 270 WSM, I am sure it will work fine; however, of the two, the 270 Win. would be my choice. I rather trade the extra magazine capacity for the increase in velocity. To my mind anything that can better 270 Win. velocity with projectiles in the 130-160 grain range is superfluous and the additional recoil is not worth it.

Nothing wrong with the 270 Win. It has been my go to rifle for many years.

It is true that the 280 is a bit better cartridge, but if your choices are limited to just the two 270's, I would take the original.

I just don't know about the WSM's. Aside from the 300 and 325, I just do not see any real interest, neither in the store or on the internet (ie Gunbroker, website).

Who knows which WSM's will have survived 5 or 10 years from now? I do know that the 270 Win will still be around, probably as popular as ever.

-Spencer

Hey Pat what are you using for powder in your 270 wsm? and what tube are you using?

Thx

Mark D

BC300win--I guess the first question I would ask you is about the conditions in which you hunt. Are you talking about shots to 400 yards or more? Or are you primarily gonna be keeping it to 300 or under?

And also how serious are you about practice and do you use a rangefinder?

Lastly my comments about the 2 would be if you were real committed and set to shoot a bunch then the WSM would be worth a look. It is a good round and for the most part day in and day out will provide about 100 to 150 fps more than the typical 270.

So just ask yourself how committed are you?

Good luck

Mark D

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
bc300winguy ----- I never owned a .270, but loaded several for buddies and it is a very fine cartridge indeed, and always will be. The .270 WSM fascinated me from the time it was announced, simply because as good as the .270 was, it was advertised to be better ballistically. I shoot many large bores and wanted something smaller to keep my trigger pull honest, therefore a good excuse to buy the WSM. I bought the WSM in the Model 70 Winchester and is this thing awesome. I chrony 98% of all my shots with an Oehler 35P and load all my own stuff, so I know exactly what it does with all loads. A 130 grain North Fork at 3455 fps is my fastest with no pressure signs with averages around 3400 fps. My accuracy loads is 140 grain Barnes TSX at 3300 fps and 150 grain North Forks at 3250 fps. The .270 Win cannot do that folks. I an not saying get rid of the .270's, they will always be a great and have their place in your vault, but they are not what the WSM is. The WSM has the same great .277 caliber bullet, with a lot more UMPHH. The new buyer just has to decide what he or she wants, and go for it. Good shooting.

Dang, I had no idea they were this fast. My old stand by load with the 270 only hits 3100 with the 130's and the load is warm. I may have to add one of these to the stables.

I fail to see the attraction to the 270 WSM. Unless one really hates the double radius shoulder of the 270 Weatherby and belts, I don't know what, if anything, is gained with the WSM . As for the vaunted extra speed, it comes at the same price as that paid by Weatherby users -blast and recoil. The way I see it, it's hard to improve upon the original.

It is just like the difference between the 06 and the 300 mags. For some people the extra velocity is worth it and to others it is not. To me it would be. Even if the velocity increase is only 150 fps I would choose it. Why? Simply because I enjoy excess,lol.
Cheers.

If you think the .270 WSM recoil is too much, or you don't like more speed or better trajectories, or you have a beautiful .270 that has always done the job, by all means don't get the WSM. I would never disrespect the grand old cartridge. I am simply saying the WSM version is too good to disregard as a flash in the pan. I dare say in 10 years it will command a sizable market for those who like the .277 caliber. I have loaded a .270 Wby for a buddy for years and have great respect for it also, well let me tell you it has very little on the WSM in a much more affordable stick. ----- Mark -- I will check my powder and post later. I want to check my records that are not in front of me, I think I know but want to double check. I put a 4.5 X 14 Ziess Conquest on my rifle and the combo is a "shooting jenny", as my dad used to say. I shoot many much heavier recoiling rifles so the WSM is a soft change of pace that I enjoy shooting very much and helps keep my trigger finger honest. Good shooting.

thanks Pat-I am helping a bud out with his and his speeds are not in this range. I believe he is using R22.

What tube is on yours also?

Lastly I know what you mean about going down to a WSM or something to that effect. When you drop down from some of the big boys we run it is always a interesting change...

Oh and I do totally concur that 10 years from now the 270 and 300 wsm will still be in the tops of sales. The 7 will be around but it is already as good as it is pretty much a dead perro. Too bad, IMO it is the best of the trio.

Mark D

Mark ----- My rifle is the Winchester Ultimate Shadow with the factory barrel. I have never measured it, but I am pretty sure it is 24 inchs. I will check and make sure and get back. Good shooting.

In my .270WBY I was going 3450 with 130s and just over 3200 with 150s, with 26" barrel. I had no idea those stubby things went that fast.I'm impressed.

Mark ----- I have shot RL-25, RL-22, RL-19, and H-1000 for powders thus far. I used Fed 215M and 210M primers, the 210M's being most accurate. I have shot Sierra Gameking and North Fork 130 grain bullets, Barnes TSX and Nosler Ballistic Tips in the 140 grain bullets, and 150 grain North Forks. My fastest three shot groups were with RL-22 and they were 3455, 3376, and 3402 fps respectively with the 130 grain North Fork bullets. My fastest with Barnes 140 grain bullets were with RL-22, also and the three shot groups were 3333, 3327, 3252, 3306,3361,3357 fps respectively. I will not post exact amounts of powder to the world, but if you want to PM me I will be glad to tell you. Hope this info helps. The barrel on my rifle is a 24 inch tube. Good shooting.

Hey thanks Pat-I'll read and decipher and pm you if I need.

Gracias

Mark D

I've loaded for several 270 Win's and 270 WSM's. On average the 270 WSM is about 200fps faster. I've loaded the same bullets and powders in each with the same lenth barrels. Sure there may be some odd exceptions to the rule but about 200fps is what you should expect.
So the 270 Win ammo is right now a little more available and may be less expensive. The 270 WSM ammo is more likely to be found with premium bullets and often is extremely accurate with factory ammuntion.
I'd lean to the 270 WSM just because for me it it's newer and more interesting and the 200fps is meaningfull if not critical. But you can't say the old 270 Win isn't a great round too....................DJ

Phurley,
What type of accuracy are you getting with this short cartridge?
Did you have to do any tuning to the rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by MajorCaliber:

quote:

The typical velocities of 270Win are overstated

No they aren't! The only 270 win factory ammo that hasn't made published velocity in my guns is Remington. With the new Hi Energy rounds the .270 virtually matches the WSM round.

Yes, they are. Winchester and Remington are the two worst offenders, in all of my 270Wins. The worst being the Win Super X 130gr PP (chrony'ed at 380fps +/- 25fps) less than the stated velocity.
The best factory round I tested (and used) was the 140gr Accubond, right on it's stated velocity, but showing signs of high pressure.
Sometimes it can depend on batch #s as well, when I sent some of the fired cases to Winchester, along with the batch #, they contacted me and promised to investigate.
It may well be just a problem with that batch.
BTW, the slower loads showed all the signs of a light load (minimal primer flattening, etc), once again, could be just that batch.
In the field though, I really can't tell the difference, and I'm pretty sure none of the critters I've ever shot have been able to tell the difference either.
As I said, either one will do the job. As for me, after playing with it for a year, I sold my 270WSM, and am going to stick with the classic.
You are abolutely right about the High Energy loads. I believe I mentioned using Premium factory loads to get the best out of the classic 270Win.

Merry Christmas.

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by MajorCaliber:

quote:

The typical velocities of 270Win are overstated

No they aren't! The only 270 win factory ammo that hasn't made published velocity in my guns is Remington. With the new Hi Energy rounds the .270 virtually matches the WSM round.

There is no way in hell that a .270 Win will ever throw a 140 grain bullet at 3200-3300 fps like a .270 WSM will!! I own both and can state that as fact.

Now, with that said, if you aren't a reloader, get a good old .270 Win. I t will suit most needs just fine.

The 270win has done so much over the years, I would like the 270wsm owners to tell us what they have done that is exceptional to what the 270win has done and continues to do so well.
Now that we have super performing pills in the 270win ,140tsx@3000, which is capable of doing anything just as well as the nothing to bark about traditional 7mmRemMag160gnNP@2950, The 270win just gets better. I c no substantial merit for the 270wsm. In arecent gun magazine they did the comparo between the 270win and WSM. When they loaded the 270win to the same presures, the difference was minimal.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
I fail to see the attraction to the 270 WSM. Unless one really hates the double radius shoulder of the 270 Weatherby and belts, I don't know what, if anything, is gained with the WSM . As for the vaunted extra speed, it comes at the same price as that paid by Weatherby users -blast and recoil. The way I see it, it's hard to improve upon the original.

Well, I do happen to hate double radius shoulders, and unnecessary belts on cases. But what I really hate is cartridges where the cheapest box of 20 runs over $30, and the brass is $19 for a box of 20. (most recent Midway prices)
I will happily accept a short action beltless cartridge where you can pick up a box of ammo for $20 or less, and pick up a box of brass for $32 for 100 cases. (or 1/3 the price of weatherby for the mathematically challenged). And still get within 100 to 150 fps of the big Weatherby. I probably need another .270 WSM to go with my Winchester Super Shadow, maybe an Ultimate Shadow.

Snowwolfe ----- I use three shot groups for all my Magnum or superfast rifles. So far my best group is .51 with many groups that have two in one hole and the third within .51 to one inch. Still striving for that one holer that I work for with every rifle, it all depends on me pulling the trigger, some days are great, some go from bad to ugly. If I have a bad day and am working with a brand new load or bullet for the first time, the target bears all the evidence all too clearly. I never throw one away, but sometimes I want to bury it in the bottom of the stack. In the end I have found comparing the good, bad and worst are very important in the overall load developement for a particular rifle. If you never see anything but the best targets from a shooter, he or she is hiding some bad one somewhere. ----- I did absolutely nothing to the rifle except mount the scope and bore scope it before I started shooting. If I don't get that one holer soon I will probably look very closely at everything. I did break in the barrel with five single shots between cleaning then three shot groups between cleaning for five more groups. My barrel does require cleaning at least every 30 rounds before I notice an accuracy decline. ----- I hate to hear folks say, "why are they always coming out with this new stuff, what we have was good for grandpa, and it is good enough for us". To that I say, horse feathers. To me happiness is playing with something new and figuring out exactly what it is for myself. Good shooting.

Thanks Phurley. I am with ya on trying new stuff. I recently had my dealer order me a LH M70 Classic in 300 WSM. If I like it I will add the 270 WSM. My motto is to try it and then if I dont like it I can always sell it! Did you ever have any feeding issues with the short mags?

Snowwolfe ----- 9 out of 10 times every cartridge will cycle perfectly, the 1 time it will hangup, seems to be when I don't pay enough attention to what I am doing and get in a big hurry. It may just be me but I will have my smith look at it if there is a problem. ----- I notice you are from Eagle River Alaska. I flew out of Fire Lake with Dennis Harms once on a fantastic Alaska Yukon Moose hunt in the Farewell Burn. It is one of the highlights of my hunting life, particularly when I look in the 24th Edition of the Boone and Crockett Awards book and see my name. Good shooting.

bc300:
Well, guess I'm from the old school & read to many of Uncle Jack's books & articles in my youth. I'm an adrent .270 Win. fan & to this day can't see a practical reason for any of the WSM's, WSSM's, RUM'S, ROAR's, SAUM's and whatever the hell else is out there. My .270 is my "go to" rifle for sheep & caribou here in Ak. In a pinch, I'd use it on moose & grizzlies. I only use premium, 150 gr. bullets . Guess the only reason for the existance of these newer chamberings is for the companies to flamboozle the unknowing public and attempt to increase their profit margins.
Yup! I 'spose a .270 WSM, WSSM, RUM, RIM (or whatever the hell it is), etc. is gonna kill a sheep or caribou deader than the conventional .270. After all, that's the impression I get from the manufacturers.
Get a .270 Win. & don't look back. Just my opinion & not worth a whole lot. Bear in Fairbanks

There is nothing wrong with either "old school" or "new school". It is about having fun! It is a sad addiction that I like to play with new stuff because it costs me a ton of money, haha. Sometimes a better mousetrap does come along and it is worth investigating. Congrats on the big moose Phurley. They are my favorite animal to hunt up here after blacktail deer.

I love my Sako m75 SS 300WM, but wanted a new rifle. I waited the extra year to be able to buy a Tikka T3 Laminate Stainless 270WS with a Leupold VX3 3.5x10x40 BC scope. I wanted a smaller caliber just for deer and that a woman would be comfortable to handle the recoil. I got the rifle October 2005. What a great shooting rifle/caliber. My fiance then, now wife took this rifle over last year, and shot her first mulie buck (160 BC) and her cow elk, all 1 shot kills from 180m to 400m last season. Since she took over this rifle, I bought the same one a month later for me.

Shooting the Winchester Supreme Accubond CT's in 140gr. , the performance is awesome. Shooting under 1" groups with factory loads at the range, and on big game its incredible the perforamnce this bullet does. I was thinking of the new Winchester Supreme Elite ammo with the new XP3 bullet in 150gr.( I prefer a bigger bullet for the elk, for the 270WSM for next year), but will have to see a considerable difference over the 140gr Accubonds.

I have no problem reccommending this rifle and caliber (WSM)to anyone considering a mid size caliber, shooting deer, moose, and elk.

I used this same rifle this morning to harvest my cow elk with a 200m - 1 shot kill. My fatherinlaw used this rifle a few weeks ago to harvest his cow elk also. Complete pass thru shot with a small entrance wound between the ribs, and huge exit wound, taking out the lungs and blowing apart the ribs on the other side. This cow dropped like being hit by a 300WM or bigger caliber.

I reload for my 270WSM rifle, but had no shells made and wantd to hunt with the 270WSM instead of my 300WM for a change. My reloads right now are: 140gr. Accubonds, Winchester Supreme nickel cases, Federal 215 Magnum primers, 71.0gr. Retumbo powder (compressed load). I never chronied mine, but others are getting 3160-3220 ft/s.

With the money saved on the Tikka T3 LS over a Sako SS or Grey Wolf, I put the money into the Scope- Leupolds VX3 3.5x10xx40 and on the other 4.5x14x40, both with the Boone & Crocket reticles. What a great combination.

quote:

My fastest with Barnes 140 grain bullets were with RL-22, also and the three shot groups were 3333, 3327, 3252, 3306,3361,3357 fps respectively.

The load I am using in my Kimber 8400 Montana 270 WSM is making 3175 fps with 140 Accubonds over the Oehler 35P. One grain more of RL 25 and there was a slight bolt lift effort over normal.

I got the 270 WSM over the 270 Win as I wanted the new Kimber 8400 rifle. The rifle weighs only 6.2 lbs the kick and blast are not too bad.