What do you guys think of the 7mm Rem Mag as a long range cartridge (i.e. 800+ yds)? I have a M70 300 Win Mag action that I want to build a custom tactical rifle on. I was thinking of keeping it as a 300 Win Mag, but don't want the recoil. My 300 RUM already beats the snot out of me off the bench. I want this gun to be fun to shoot off a bench (800-1000 yds), as well as hunt with (up to 800 yds). The gun will weigh about 12 lbs. Is there anyone out there that has experience at these ranges with the 7mm RM? Would love to hear your experiences.

I don't have any experience with it, but I do know that it could definitely be done. I know of a guy who uses his 7 Mag for elk up to about 650 yards or so. So stretching it another 150 doesn't seem to unreal, especially if you are hunting smaller game.

shot my 7mm out to 800 this summer. i did ok with the set up that i had. i could do better with a 162A-max or simalar but the 139 hornady blew up a few jugs at that didstance.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jethro:
Is there anyone out there that has experience at these ranges with the 7mm RM?

---

www.longrangehunting.com

You should get plenty of info there.

Jethro-

I just noticed that you're from Connellsville.

A good many of the LRH forum members are from PA.

In addition to reading about it, you may be able to hook up with somebody in the area & do some LR shooting together...

Thanks guys.

Cold Bore, I actually did post and search at LRH. Great website with allot of info on that type of shooting. Didn't get a whole lot back, so I decided to post here as well. Guess there aren't too many folks shooting the long distances with the 7mm RM. I think the majority of guys have moved up to the 30's for this, and for good reason. However, I'm trying to avoid the heavy recoil of the 30 cal magnums. They aren't bad in the field, but shooting numerous rounds off a bench gets grueling. That's the way my 300 RUM is anyway. A muzzle brake would help significantly, but I don't care for them. Too much noise and concussion. There's allot of info on the 7 STW, but again, the the recoil goes up.

So, that is the reason I'm asking this question specific to the 7 Rem Mag. Just to get some real life experience. The rifle I'm having built will be garuanteed to 1/2 MOA or better, so the accuracy is there. It's just the performance I'm questioning.

Cold Bore, I'll have to check out LRH for some members in the SW PA area. It would be fun to get together with some others who enjoy that type of shooting. I'm sure I could learn allot too.

Jethro,

The 7mmRM have about the same ballistic curve as the 30 magnums with bullets that are slightly heavier. You can push a 175gr bullet to about 2850fps realisticallly in 7mmRM, and that has an excellent ballistic coefficient. It will shoot with a 200gr 308 bullet. The 160 grain would be similar to the 180grain 308 bullets.

With a slow powder, the 160 in 7mmRM would be less punishing than a 30 magnum, but not by much. There is no such thing as a free lunch in ballistics or economics. The 7mmRM has a reputation for accuracy and the 160gr bullets have a good BC, so you could improve on your 300 RUM.

The really long range shooter would be the 338 with one of the new extra heavy, super slick bullets. One of these at relatively low velocity from a rifle with a brake would be wonderous to see! Kudude

Hello,
I as well as several others in my area shoot long range matches. (long range NRA matches are identified by starting at 600 yards to 1000 yards and shot in prone position, no bench.) Using a bench is another shooting discipline and regulated by I believe the Bench Rest group??
There are several people who use the Rem. 7Mag. at matches. A nationally ranked shooter, Mr. Maxberry, used a 7Mag to great success at the 1000 yard line and he has won many matches at Camp Perry over the years. Whether he used the 7Mag at Perry or not, I am not sure, but have shot other places with him and he used that caliber. (usually won as well!!)

Barrel twist suitable for the heavier match bullets, as in Sierra, are desired for best results. You can check with Sierra for they are always quite helpfull and have great deal experience with match/long range shooters regardless of caliber.

Recoil can be a detrement to the shooter, but usually the magnum rifles have a bit more weight than say my 308 match rifle. Have heard that the 7 Mag. is a "barrel eater..." compared to say the 308 or '06 and it would be for it is a high performance cartridge. I am not sure what a typical barrel life is for the 7Mag, but have heard that some 1200-1500 rounds you will drop off in accuracy. (308 will normally get twice that amount) That seems like a lot of rounds and it is for a hunting rifle, but most serious match shooters will shoot far more than that in a year and the price of barrel replacing, set backs, etc. does enter into the equation of what makes good economic planning.

Not sure what the rules are for Bench Rest, but muzzle brakes are frowned on at NRA long range matches. We are shooting prone w/ sling and lined up reasonably close to each other and the muzzle blast and noise can be a problem in those situations. Whether it is a rule or not, not sure, but can tell you most club range officers would have you moved from the line of fire or at best, moved to a far away separate firing point so as to not interfere with the other shooters.

Don't know that I would advise shooting at such extreme ranges for hunting purposes for a quick kill/ humane kill may not always be possible unless the shooter is highly skilled and even then it would be an iffy affair, just my suggestion.
If you are interested in the approximate "come ups" from 100 yds. to 1000 yds. let me know and can give them to you and a source for such data. Elevation is not the problem, for it really does not vary so much from caliber to caliber. The problem comes when shooting is the wind variance. Anyway, good shooting and Favor Center!!
dsiteman

dsiteman, kudude,

Thanks for the replies. That is exactly what I was looking for. I checked out the BC of the new 175gr SMKs and it was around .608. It's nice to know this cartridge is definitely capable of reaching out there. I think I'm ready to order.

What kind of velocity do you expect at 800 yards? Hunting bullets are barely adequate at 1800 fps and most will not expand at less than 2000 fps.

Ulfhere
According to Boddington in a recent article Federal might have figured a way around that with their NEW Fusion bullet.
Heres a quote from his article. (Data was taken with 06 180 gr bullet)
At 520 yd weight retention was 99% and the bullet dia. was .73" it penetrated 21" of ballistic gelatin. Velocity would be approx. 1700fps.

That would be the Federal Fusion bullet, right? It does look interesting, design-wise. There are conventional round noses that can expand down to 1400 fps, but that is rare (and such bullets would be going a lot less than that at 800 yards).

A 150 gr Sierra SBT at that range would be going only about 1600 fps and most bullets aren't quite that good in the BC department. The Sierras won't open at those speeds either. A 175 gr SBT would be going maybe 1700 fps - again no hope of proper expansion. Put in a good quality bonded core bullet that might open at those velocities but with a true BC of roughly 0.35 to 0.38 and you are looking at more like 1400 fps. Any way you slice it, that is really too far.

Having hunted more than most, I abhore the idea of shooting game at beyound 400 yards max..It simply isn't sporting....

The problem as I have seen it is an excellent shot will always come close enough to wound the animal more times than he will kill it...A lousy shot will miss every time so he is the better of the two IMO....

I couldn't agree more and I have seen the results of long range sniping at Elk, Moose and Mule Deer by guys with .300 Weatherby Mags. only too often. When I was a young buck, 40 years ago, in the B.C.F.S., we would frequently find the decomposing bodies of wounded animals which had been shot at and later died in agony in the Elk and Flathead Valleys of S.E. B.C. After some checking around, we could often find the high points on logging roads where the shooting had come from, empty brass and, often, beer bottles told an ugly tale........

I will NOT shoot over 300 yds. because that is the maximum length of my club range that I can practice on and I do not think that anyone should shoot at game over 400 yds., period. BTW, one of my mentors in learning about shooting was the former Bisley-Palma World Champion and another of my shooting buddies is the current coach of one of the RCMP sniper teams; both of these men had the same opinion on this issue.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Having hunted more than most, I abhore the idea of shooting game at beyound 400 yards max..It simply isn't sporting....

The problem as I have seen it is an excellent shot will always come close enough to wound the animal more times than he will kill it...A lousy shot will miss every time so he is the better of the two IMO....

---

Just cause *YOU* can't do it, don't preach to me and tell me that *I* can't do it.

And knock off the "ethics" crap about what is and isn't sporting.

Ulfhere
Thanx for the correction, I was looking at a Hornady article just before I posted and mixed them up.

Years ago I saw an article in a shooting magazine about some fellas in the states who were long range hunters.
Well the thing about these guys was that they all had handicaps moblity wise and so had evolved this method of spotting across valleys and shooting Whitetails.
They had some pretty sophisticated equipment for the time... huge Binos off a Sub or destroyer, and one of those artillery range finders. I think they were shootin .300 Wby mags. But.... they all practised regularly shooting and spotting for each other and seemed to have it down pretty good.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kutenay:
I couldn't agree more and I have seen the results of long range sniping at Elk, Moose and Mule Deer by guys with .300 Weatherby Mags. only too often. When I was a young buck, 40 years ago, in the B.C.F.S., we would frequently find the decomposing bodies of wounded animals which had been shot at and later died in agony in the Elk and Flathead Valleys of S.E. B.C. After some checking around, we could often find the high points on logging roads where the shooting had come from, empty brass and, often, beer bottles told an ugly tale.......

---

Well, there you go folks, undisputed "facts(?)" that if you find a dead Elk with a bullet hole in it, it had to be killed at a l-o-n-g distance by a drunk 300WbyMag shooter.

Tell me something, you poser, what is your actual experience with real, wilderness living, hunting or even seeing BIG game??? You don't know jackshit about this or any other topic that you post your ignorant, scurrilous and self-aggrandizing bullshit remarks on; a number of the most experienced posters on this forum have shown you up for the halfwitted mouthpiece you are.

Why don't you go and play with your tame Whitetails that you boast about shooting on your plantation, Massa, or maybe go besport yourself down at the "quarters" like the inbred p.o.s. you are, GFY.

Gee, don't hold back now Kute, tell us how you really feel.

http://www.wildcatshooting.com/forum/

Hey DD, By golly, I think we located the "chimera".

Any idea who might have gotten kute all in a dither?

Hey, Massa, I have zero issues with Digital, so, don't try your usual slimey tricks and drag him into it; you remind me of that other snivelling wannabe-neverwas, blue, maybe you could emulate him and get lost!?

Hey DD, I do believe kute "thinks" he either has the Authority or the respect to "Order" folks around. Apparently one of those "chimera" aspects coming to the surface.

---

Bad news for everyone.

I went to the mailbox and saw two Beercans across the road on the ground. Didn't see any spent 300WbyMag cases though, so it might have been a drunken "reloader" that stopped and retrieved his cases. Only "speculation" on my part, cause I feel sure kute knows more about such stuff than me or anyone else alive or dead.

Anyway, according to our resident Beercan Seer kute, there is apparently a dead Elk out there somewhere laying around dead, a long way off. The Beercans open ends were pretty much pointed toward the North, So, perhaps BSer kute would be kind enough to tell us which direction we should begin the search.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kutenay:
...on your plantation, Massa, or maybe go besport yourself down at the "quarters"...

---

kutenay-

Are you a slave?

Have you ever BEEN a slave?

Do you KNOW anybody who ever was a slave?

No?

Well then knock off the patronizing "massa" talk.

Both of you have about as much credibility as John Kerry does and I am not the only poster on this forum to notice this. Your posts NEVER inform anyone about anything to do with guns, shooting, hunting or reloading; you badmouth other guys who actually do the foregoing because you don't know jacksquat, never have and never will.

It's funny that so many people here have exactly the same impression that I have and that these are among the most experienced guys here, so, I think that the real hunters here have pretty much figured you out.This was demonstrated, recently, on the P-64 thread and I am not going to waste any more time on you; to me, you are Massa and that's that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kutenay:
Both of you pathetic dickweeds have about as much credibility as that Kerry asshole does and I am not the only poster on this forum to notice this. Your posts NEVER inform anyone about anything to do with guns, shooting, hunting or reloading; you badmouth other guys who actually do the foregoing because you don't know jacksquat, never have and never will.

It's funny that so many people here have exactly the same impresion that I have and that these are among the most experienced guys here, so, I think that the real hunters here have pretty much figured you out. Now, it seems we have Massa one and two, do you both shoot the same spike buck at your feeder or are you too busy with your Mint Juleps. Bye, Massa 1 &2.

---

Aaaahhh, a very imformed poster here.

I'd like to see this big list of "so many people here have exactly the same impresion that I have".

Yeah, there might be a few, like you, who I've called BS on. But I'd venture to say that I've got more "credible" posters on my side than you ever would on yours.

But then you have obviously not taken much time to research things before you post your hate-filled drivel.

You sound like a very unhappy person, just pissed off at the world. Must be tough living like that...

Ooohhh, kutenay, having a little change of heart there?

I see you edited your post, but not before I had already captured it in quotes...

Having second thoughts about what you wrote?

I'm not.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kutenay:
This was demonstrated, recently, on the P-64 thread and I am not going to waste any more time on you; to me, you are Massa and that's that.

---

Uh, what was it that I said on that thread again? Refresh us please...

Actually, pimple, I thought since it is Sunday morning and I had made an inadvertant typo, I would simplify my message so that your arrogant and foolish mind could more easily grasp it.

But, it seems as though you just can't understand the most obvious statements and want to continue a flame war, a behaviour typical of your buddy hotmouth.

As far as "hate' is concerned, Massa is the guy who consistently attacks other posters here as my reference to the P-64 thread pointed out, so, I think that his new nickname is quite appropriate. As for you, if you don't like the truth, don't read it, I have no interest in your bullshit, period.

Funny though, you sure seem to be thinskinned about the term, "Massa", maybe some residual guilt from the past????? I would say that Slavery as practiced down in your neck of the woods constitutes real "hate", so, maybe you should STFU and GFY.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monticello:
I don't have any experience with it, but I do know that it could definitely be done. I know of a guy who uses his 7 Mag for elk up to about 650 yards or so. So stretching it another 150 doesn't seem to unreal, especially if you are hunting smaller game.

---

Said by a guy who I don't think has done much shooting beyond 650 yards.

There is a HUGE difference between 650 yards and 800. At 650 I can put my bullets in a pie plate shooting sitting. At 800 a 1 mph wind blows half my bullets off the plate. You simply cannot estimate the wind within 1 mph; most days when it blows, it blows pretty uniformly, but there are plenty of times in AZ where you can get a 2 mph wind left to right where you are shooting and a different wind at 800 yards. You can't read the mirage, either, because there often isn't any early in the morning.

Now maybe you guys are a better a shot than me, but I have a pile of trophies in my house and only lost two matches when I shot. One I finished second, the other 8th. I had a very bad day that day.

Go to a 1000 yard match and see how many guys put their first shots on a pie plate at 1000 yards.

The other thing I find pretty funny is the number of long range shooters who live east of the big river. You can't shoot that far there without cutting a swath thru the trees, which effectivley blocks the wind.

Come shoot in AZ where the wind blows all over the place. You can do it to 650 or 700, but 800 or farther is no way doable 90% of the time.

If anyone can do it, I will send you a free plane ticket to AZ. I will write a story about your prowess in The VARMINT HUNTER Magazine.

I've got a place here in Mississippi that I can shot 1000yds, but I personally find it too frustrating to do for the reasons you mentioned.

I gotta toot my horn a little though. I took a deer at 403 lazered yards this year with my .300H&H It's the longest game shot I've ever made (or taken)and it was as clean a kill as if I took him at 30ft! You'd of laughed if you heard all the crap I was talking to the two people that saw it We generally take them a lot closer down here.

Terry

Ah, here we return to reality, with AnotherAZ's obviously experienced comments about long distance shooting. The windage error is the really difficult aspect of this and it is essentially unreadable while hunting. In the northern Rockies, here in B.C., it is no great feat to spot trophy Elk at 800+ yds, but, the winds swirl around in weird gusts and breezes constantly and shooting at that sort of distance is impossible, unless one does not care about wounding/losing a magnificent animal.

It seems to me that concern for the animals we hunt and kill should be foremost among our ethical concerns when actually hunting and a lack of this, or treating this topic in a cavalier fashion, is the surest way to increase the number of anti-hunters that I can think of. That is why I take this topic so seriously, as would any real sportsman-hunter, IMHO.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kutenay:
Your posts NEVER inform anyone about anything ...

---

I can tell you there is a picture of a (rag) Pre-64 blown-up with impurities in the steel on page 36 of Volume II Mr. P.O. Ackley's Manuals.

Of course, Mr. Ackley is one of the greatest Wildcatters of our past and "ALL" cartridges released from the mid 1950's on contain design enhancements proven by him as well as his peers.

quote:

---

...I am not going to waste any more time on you; to me, you are Massa and that's that.

---

By golly, I do believe old BSer kute has pulled a Clinton on us. If you look back, he is still spewing in his normal wide open BSer mode after he said that was his last post.

Of course, a man is only as good as his word, so it is obvious his word is worthless.

---

Hey jethro, I fully intended to share a few thoughts with you concerning your question about the 7mmRemMag at l-o-n-g range, but got so caught up in the laughing at our resident BSer kute, that it slipped my mind.

One of the reasons BSer kute doesn't shoot beyond 300yds is that he doesn't have any firearms capable of hitting a barn at that distance. I see he neglected to mention that in his initial spew.

But, it is a seriously valid issue. Not all rifles are capable of delivering (relatively) small groups at extended distances. Same for the scopes and for darn sure the Loads you intend to use.

So, here are my recommendations for you:

1. Either look in a Bullet Manufacturer's Manual at the Exterior Ballistic Tables or use one of the Ballistic Software Programs(one is FREE) to get a real idea of the trajectory out yonder at 800yds. I'm not a proponent of using the Software to just print out a Drop Chart and go "hunting" at all. But, I am a proponent of using it to get you onto the Targets and to see how much the Bullet is "supposedly" dropping at that distance.

Not just a single drop, but a comparison of the drop at say 760yds and 780yds with the Bullet of your choice. It is a very eye-opening experience to see how much difference in drop there is in those 20yds.

2. I would also recommend you do a simple hands-on, real-live, comparison shoot between say a 243Win and the 7mmRemMag at even 500yds which shouldn't be too difficult to find a range that long. Or use a 25cal,or 270Win in place of the 243Win.

What you will quickly see is how much difference the "Higher Ballistic Coefficient" bullets perform at distance than the Lower BC bullets. This needs to be done first-hand instead of on the computer to get the full effect. All the things mentioned by "AZ" will be easy to see.

Now, once you see that difference, there will be a similar difference between the 7mmRemMag and the larger calibers due to the inherently higher BCs on their bullets.

Basically, the smaller the caliber you use at distance, the more effect the environmental conditions will have on your groups.

That doesn't mean some fine groups can't be shot with small calibers way out there. Obviously the little 223Rem does quite well in some Matches. But, it is sure affected by the environment more than a 30cal or larger.

3. I do believe it would be an excellent idea to begin learning to shoot at distance with the 7mmRemMag. It will "highlight" any errors in Form or Load in a large enough detail to make it very obvious to you. Wear out a barrel on it and by then you will have learned enough to know a good many of the limitations.

This is not a situation where you can shoot 400-500 cartridges and have enough Trigger Time to be serious about hunting at distance.

4. Ignore BSer kute and his lack of first-hand knowledge. Plenty of folks can help you get started down the path. And as a seriously wonderful side benefit, it will also help your shots which happen to be up close.

"All" cartridges from the 1950's on showed Ackley's influence, according to the real expert with the real wilderness hunting experience. No shit, Massa, y'all done tol' us'ns a mouthful, jes' to "enlighten" we'uns mebbee y'all kin tell us'ns jes' zacly how in tarnation the .256 Win., the .44 Mag., the .375 Win., the .444 Marlin and the .450 Marlin, among a number of others demonstrated Ackley's influence. Jezuz, you are one sorry crock of bullshit, Massa!

BTW, what is your experience with long range shooting of BIG game, give us the kind of background details that other posters support their opinions with....are you, perhaps, the State Rifle Champion, have hunted in Alaska, B.C. the Yukon or maybe Africa????? C'mon, Massa, let us know the source of your boasting and bullshit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kutenay:
...are you, perhaps, the State Rifle Champion,


C'mon, Massa, let us know the source of your boasting and bullshit.

---

Since you asked... yes.

More than once.

With service rifle as well as sniper rifle.

Have competed (and done very well), on the national as well as international levels.

Have been awarded the Distinguished Rifleman badge.

Hold an NRA Long Range Master classification card. (That's with open sights there my friend, no scopes allowed. It only gets easier with a scope...)

Ok, enough about me.

It's your turn.....

I was not referring to you, but, since you are so eager to boast about your shooting skills and strut your stuff, I will reply. I have never claimed to be a competitive shooter or any sort of crack shot, BUT, I actually have spent more than 40 yrs. living and working in the most remote wilderness areas left in North America; I base my opinions concerning shooting related matters on that, this includes many confrontations with irate Grizzlies at close range.

I have been in at the death of a substantial number of big game animals, some I shot and some shot by partners, guided hunters and wildlife control officers; I have seen animals with wounds from inaccurate, long range shooting by "experts" from the suburban USA and have had to kill them to alleviate their suffering. My comments were solely based on what is ethical and appropriate in hunting situations, as I made clear.

BTW, it is not always easier with a scope, pal, I usually forgo the use of any optical sight when actually working in deep bush due to rain, snow and fog. Maybe, if you had the integrity to post your location, instead of echoing that pathetic loudmouth, Massa, we would be able to determine your actual experience level, as it is, your tremendous feats of marksmanship have buggerall to do with longrange game shooting.

Both of you ought to take this some where else. This on going argument has stepped all over three or four peoples thread's that are trying to gain a little knowledge. This board does has PM function.

Terry

I did not initiate the unpleasant personal exchanges, on this thread, or on others here on AR where I have been maligned, as have others such as Allen Day, because we dare to disagree with "Hot Core". I do not make nasty remarks, unless they are made to me first, then, I will defend myself as I see fit, period.

However, I have no desire to obstruct anyone and shall say nothing further in order not to do so. If, Hot Core and Cold Bore will reciprocate, then this whole matter is over, as far as I am concerned. Sorry I interfered with your enjoyment of the topic at hand.

What power do you guys set your scope on for the long ranges?I have been looking at a 6x18x leupold and just wondered what would the 18 xpower come in handy on?Do the high powers earn there keep on smaller targets like p.dogs or something?14 xpower is as high as i have owned and shot with it on 10x more than 14x.......Another scope long range question,do military snipers use 10x only on there rifles or do they use adjustable powers also,and at what range do they have to qualifiy?