The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 300 WM or 338 WM, Your Thoughts?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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memtb, I don't disagree; however, I wasn't discussing what was better "all around" caliber. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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What load and bbl. length gives a 225TTSX 2950 from a .338WM case? My best to date is 2780 from the 23" Shilen on my early Dakota 76 factory chambered .338WM. Would appreciate the recipe? | |||
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It is the same between the .300WM and the .338WM. Bullet trajectories is somewhat similar when bullet construction and weight are the same for both calibers. For example, about three years ago Federal loaded the 180-grain Nosler Partition for both the .338 and .300 (two different bullet calibers, but in 180 grains). In this case the .33-caliber 180 grainer hit the mark about 1-1/2" lower than the .30-caliber 180 grainer out at 500 yards. However, while the .33-caliber bullet had a similar trajectory as the .30, the latter was moving faster and penetrating deeper than the former because it was more aerodynamically efficient. The narrower bullet has the potential for traveling further. Also, it does not mean that using a lighter weight bullet on the .375 or .338 will lesser the killing power. All depends on what is being hunted. For example, the .338 Federal ammo I mentioned above was for long shots on smaller game such as deer and pronghorn. But for such long shots the 180 grainer out of the .300WM is just about perfect. In this case, if I didn't have a .300 but had a .338, or even a .375, I could use a lightweight bullet as a compromise. My point is that there is a certain range of bullet performance that the .300WM, .338WM, and the .375H&H has, and that while the lower ballistics range is overlapped from one to the next, this can only be possible up to a point, but not totally. | |||
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SNAP, A bit of quick research suggests that max loads of I4350 or Hunter provides the most velocity with a 225 grain bullet but nothing exceeds 2880 fps. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The Federal HE load with the 225-grain TBBC was pretty hot (about four years ago), but it's not longer loaded. Hornady has one, but under 2900 fps. I still have some of the Federal HE loads with the 225 grainer, and also with the 250-grain NOS HE. This one was loaded around 2700 fps at the muzzle of a 24" barrel, but there are still around some factory barrels the are 26" instead of 24". To me it makes no sense whatsoever to load the .375 with anything lighter than 270-grain bullets since I can just use the standard .338WM load with 250-grain bullets. Well, if I din't have a .338WM, then I would maybe do that, since the 300 grainers on the .375 tree just perfect. I have two .338WM rifles and one .375H&H, the .338's one with a 24" barrel, and the other with a 22" one. The latter is a Ruger African version that does not have a muzzle brake, and this is quite a good-looking rifle, plus accurate. One of the things I like about the .338WM, at least for hunting in Alaska, is that one can choose bullet weights from 185 to 300 grains, leaving the weights over 250-grains for close shots, and the lighter weights down to 225 grains for anything else in Alaska-if that is what you want. I have settle on the 225-grain 3-Shock Tipped as an all around bullet for the game I hunt. | |||
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Snap, I guess that I should qualify....according to my chronograph! I do not have a method to prove or disprove the chrno. I will say I was working with a .308 Win.and the numbers were lower than expected...so I’m hoping that it’s close! Data points: 24” SS Winchester Barrel, Federal Safari brass (nickel), Fed. 215 primer, RL 22 - 78.5 grains. The load does not show any evidence of excess pressure. It is not an exceptionally accurate load (1”to 11/4” @ 100 yrds), but is representative of the rifles norm. memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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Ray, I really didn’t want to go lighter than a 270 grain in my AI. But, I’m unapologetically addicted to Barnes Bullets. My rifle shoots the 270 TSX’s outstandingly. But...the 270 has a BC similar to that of a brick. I begged Barnes for many years to make a TTSX at around 290 to 300 grains. That bullet should have an excellent BC, but, Barnes didn’t help me out! So... went to the 250, which does pretty good beyond 500...where the 270’s “hit the wall”! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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I have the same dilemma and rifles. Here is how I'm looking at it. My 375 handles everything a medium bore will, from 200 grains to 300, realistically 270 grains is more than sufficient for North America. The 265 grain GSC is my choice, it has a BC of .386 and will easily do 2800fps. You can also load their 200 grain and it will do 3200 fps. We are pretty well-covered there with the more frontal area than the 338. My 7mm Is a great package, its set up for longer range and smaller animals. I'm running the 175-grain eld-X, it is shooting.58" groups with my starter loads. It handles everything from antelope to moose. I think the 338 is neither fish nor fowl, as a heavy game cartridge it doesn't have the power of the wider bores. If I was going to choose a medium between 7mm and 375 it would most likely be a 35 caliber. Then again the 35 is so close to the 375 I would just use lighter bullets (there are many) in my 375. So the 30 is going to be my choice, it creates some redundancy in my arsenal, for example, say I want to keep a rifle at my father in laws house for the season and he lives far away, makes it easy to go hunting with him. The 30 is more suited for the heavy game than the 7. It can tackle light bodied game easily but is perfect to take moose hunting. I would run 180 to 200-grain bullets. Honestly, in NA i don't really need to shoot bullets over 200 grains it just increases recoil to the detriment of accuracy. It has great long range performance and moderate recoil. | |||
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My bunch including son and grandsons use .300 Winnie, .340 Wby, .338 Lapua, and two .358 STA's for larger game. The STA's in my opinion outdo the .375 H&H with 185 grainers up to 310 grains. The 270 grain Northfork at 2900 fps is awesome for anything out there in North America. Just the way we do it for what it is worth. Good Shooting. phurley | |||
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Hard to argue against the STA or 350 G&H....great round! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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My choice would be the .300.. I simply like the caliber.. Have 7’s , had 338’s, still have a .340 and .375.. But the .300 is my favorite.. Lots of faith in what it has done over the last 47 years.. No flies on the big 7’s or the .338.. | |||
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Then you should not have a dilemma. All you have to do is to use your .375H&H with the lighter weight bullets. If I didn’t have a .338WM, then I would use my .375H&H to do the same. But you have to take into consideration is that you aren’t going to duplicate the entire ballistics range of the .338WM with your .375, at least relating to trajectory, and SD. You can load it quite fast, according to your calculations, but the larger diameter of the bullet makes it less aerodynamic than a smaller diameter .33-caliber bullet of the same design. It’s all about physics. For example, you can’t duplicate the SD of a 250-grain .33-caliber bullet by using a 265-grain .375 bullet. The same if you compare a 180-190-grain .30-caliber bullet to a 180-grain .33-caliber bullet. In this case the .33-caliber 180-grain bullet is loaded approximately 150fps faster than the 180 .30-caliber bullet, but even so the smaller diameter .30-caliber bullet out at 500 yards hits the spot from 1.5 to 2” higher than the .33-caliber 180-grain bullet. The smaller diameter bullet out of the .300WM catches and passes the .33-caliber bullet somewhere before reaching 200 yards. The .338WM, just like the .300WM, and the .375H&H has its place. The issue of having “power” or not is meaningless if you compare it to a larger cartridge that holds more powder in its case, simply because it is designed to drive a smaller diameter bullet. Take for example the .35-Whelen, or any other cartridge that uses a similar case as the .30-06. One may say that the somewhat .30-06-size case is not powerful, but some of these cartridges have been successfully used in Africa to hunt very large and dangerous game using heavy bullets that have good SD, and loaded to produce a little over 2,000 fps. In relation to bullet SD and the reasons why some of the smaller cartridges kill so fast, read what Chuck Haw has to say on a link I posted in one of my previous post. --------- Now, this shows you some of the most popular cartridges in Alaska. By the way, several years ago the NRA posted a similar list of cartridges from one of the shooting ranges in Anchorage, Alaska. The data was collected from the hunters who were sighting their hunting rifles before the hunting season: http://forums.outdoorsdirector...unting-rifle-caliber While I have a .375H&H, as an all around around cartridge I use the .338WM. | |||
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Better explained here, by Chuck Hawks: http://www.chuckhawks.com/want_better_sd.htm
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Common since and what I done seen with my own two eyes cousin tells me the .338 is considerably better killer and shoots as far for all practicle purposes..I can tell the difference, kant you!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My hunting buddy uses his 338 WM for deer, elk, and hogs. I think he likes hunting with a rifle/scope combo he knows inside and out. I have a 358 Win, 300 WM and a 9.3x62 for different hunting situations for the same game. Although the 358 Win is my favorite of the three, my 300 WM and 9.3x62 pretty much has me covered for anything I will ever hunt. My hunting buddy's 338 WM accomplishes the same. I would probably go with the 338. Start young, hunt hard, and enjoy God's bounty. | |||
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To fill the gap cartridge wise .338. However if you want a gun for mostly elk/moose the .300 WM may be more practical. For grizz I would go with .338 Life is grand when choosing which caliber for your next rifle is your biggest worry.LOL BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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I just about guarantee that the 300 Weatherby Mag has at one time or another been used to take everything from mosquitoes to mbogo. | |||
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That is so true! I wouldn't put such restrictions on myself I would own them all. | |||
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 Yes, the 338 is the better bridge between the 7mmRM and a 375. For light and fast you already have a 7mm. So you are really looking for a bigger bullet and the 338 provides those over a 300WM. That is what I did 35 years ago and I've been happy with several 338s. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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This was our thought (same as your friend) process, when my wife started using her .338 WM in the early 90’s. One rifle, one load, one scope, for “all” of her big game hunting. Over the years, slight load changes (same bullet weight,changed as Barnes improved their bullets), and one scope change. If you “only” use one rifle...you get very proficient with it! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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Biebs, Don't confuse your winter boredom, with needing another rifle to play with in order to satisfy an itch. Like others have mentioned, your bases are covered. Stick with your original plan. Craig "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." | |||
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Rather than being too concerned about the calibre, think much more about the complete rifle / stock / scope set up. To use an extreme example a 300 Win Mag in an Accuracy International Sniper rifle with a 6-20x56 mm scope is a very good long range rifle. But bloody useless a shorter range hunting rifle. 375's are flat enough shooting, but long range potential may be let down by being fitted with a 1-4x dangerous game type scope. What sort of hunting are you doing / intend to do. The 300 win mag has a bit more thump than the 7mm, but all things being equal no animal is going to notice the difference between bullets of similar construction and ballistic coefficient. If your 375 is set up as a closer range DG rifle, the 300 or 338 set up with a more powerful scope, but with a low enough bottom end may be a more useful all rounder, for when you may have need of a big thump. | |||
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Terry, If he buys both, he will still have to make that horrible decision!!  But the upside is he can't go wrong... As for myself, Im lathered up over the .338 and have been for near a century or however long its been out yonder, I bought the first one that made it to the wholesale house I EL Paso, Tex., and been shooting one ever since..Had to sell both y 338-06 IMP and my 35 Whelen to buy it..It worked out just fine. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The only reason that I can see for a 300WM over a 338WM would be shooting medium game at 400-800 yards. I don't do that. But if I did, I would look into the long range sniper calibers like 338 Lapua and wildcats. The 338 bullets offer marginally better BCs, though one might need to plan ahead for a faster twist than 10" if the real heavy bullets were chosen. Practically, there is not a lot that can't be done with a 225gnTTSX at 2835fps and its .514 BC. That is covered by the 338WinMag. The 185TTSX (BC .432) at 3100fps is also available for someone who insists on flat speed for more explosive results on medium game. Perhaps the new 250gnLRX at 2700 and .600BC would be a better African substitute, but I have too many 225's waiting to be used at an annual trickle rate that I have no pressing need for years to come. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Hello Biebs, Go for the .338 Win Mag - Bullets range from 160g to 300g to cover a wide range of uses. I'm sure you saw my Sako Safari post that shows how flat shooting the 160g load can be. Bullet path for the 160g Barnes is as follows: . 50 yds = +1.6" 100 yds = +4.0" 150 yds = +5.4" 200 yds = +5.7" 250 yds = +5.0" 300 yds = +3.0" 350 yds = - 0.4" 400 yds = - 5.3" and at 400yds you still have almost 1900 ft/lbs of energy " .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... " How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar | |||
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I only "need" two rifles these days. I have two 30-06s and one .338 win. That's all I really need for this this side for the big creek...I have never been able to tell any difference in the 30-06 and the 300s as a matter of fact, and if I had to hunt the world over I could make do with the 30-06, but I know the .338 is a better elk, moose and big bear rifle, and will do just fine for buffalo and has. I have other guns, but am selling them off as we speak for the most part..Im holding out with a 8x57 Brno mod. 22F that's rare and collectable and just cute and my recently built 7x57 fwt. on a small ring action. they will will be the last to sell..oh hell where is this going it will change tomarrow. read my response only for entertainment!! Its just rambling confusion! every caliber mentioned on this thread is a viable option.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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You only need 2 rifles for everything: - 7mm Magnum for deer, antelope and goats. - 338 Magnum for moose and elk. I agree with Ray Atkinson, sell other rifles and build these 2 custom rifles with premium barrels and scopes. | |||
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Although this MAY make good sense but how boring would that be? Reminds me of my days when every hunting situation was solved with just my 30/06, it worked and still does for everything but it is way too much fun to tinker and fiddle with a rack of different caliber rifles. | |||
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Stretch that to 3 guns, and I think you could cover dang near anything (short of African DG) and do it on the '06 case. 25-06 30-06 35 Whelen Throw in the 400 Whelen as the 4th and Bob's your uncle for anything that walks, all based on a 100+ year old case! Of course now you'd need 2 of each of those, ya know, blue/wood and synthetic of each, just to be safe in all weather conditions If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Took a brief side trip to get a Coyote rifle in 243, but I'm back on the prowl. All good points made above. I'm sure I'll wind up with both a 300 and a 338...I've never been one for compromises :-) | |||
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Reloading relieves boredom. For the price of a third rifle a man can buy the best Reloading dies etc. Guns are boring without Reloading. | |||
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Two rifles, for big game hunting?  memtbYou should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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How does ANY 300 mag make it into the equation? They are still making 30-06's. | |||
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And away we go! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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No, all the other slots are filled already! | |||
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if you reload, how about a 300 H&H? Jim fur, feathers, & meat in the freezer  "Pass it on to your kids" | |||
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Because not everyone shoots small Texas deer from a blind? Ray, you have had this same rant for the last 15 years at least, and that only covers my history of seeing you rant. The 30-06 is great. So are the 300 Mags, and 338s, 375s, 416s, and 458s. That is not even in dispute. It’s time to let it go..... | |||
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I.have hunted with.the 338 win mag.32 years and have had 12 rifles in it .I have taken game from 3 yards to 425 yards .I have taken 180 big game animals with.it .I had one 300 win mag was not.that impressed with.it over the 3006 .The 338 had way more knock down power .A friend in.alaska borrowed my 338 7 years and killed seven moose in.their tracks to 300 yards .He had used the 3006 before always had to.shoot.them five to.seven times .The 338 killed them all one shot in.their tracks .The 3&8 win mag is the best all around big.game rifle for all North America game ! Elmer Keith was very right it's the best choice .All my friends that used my 338s converted quickly to that cAliber .I trust it on big bears ,moose ,elk deer ,hogs pronghorn and all big.game of North America! | |||
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(although the friend who shot moose five to seven times each with a 30-06 needs to work on marksmanship.  )+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Shucks, dgr, I've used a 338 WM since 1980 but only ever the one rifle. Though I went through seven or eight shotguns before finding one that really suited me, I've never felt any urge to trade that old Sako Finnbear. It's heavy and, like all Sakos, has a skimpy bolt shroud - and despite the long magazine, I think it has a short throat. But I can't think of a rifle I'd want to replace it with. There are five others in my cupboard legal for hunting the big deer, including a .30-06 and 35 Whelen, but this will be my favorite until I'm too weak to carry it. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 300 WM or 338 WM, Your Thoughts?
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. Seriously, when it comes down between the 300 and 338 I pick the 338. Much of this has to do with I like 270s and the 30-06 and just don’t want a faster .308”. Infact having a 7mm RM I’d automatically skip the 300 anyways.