The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Battle of the 7mm cartridgesGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Battle of the 7mm cartridges | Login/Join |
One of Us |
I want a new barrel for my Savage. With a 30" barrel, which cartridge will give me the best velocity with high BC bullets such as the 168 and 180 grain Bergers or the 200 grain Wildcat? (BC over .8!) I'm thinking a 7mm STW or RUM...any other fast cartridges that I can get brass for? Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system.  | ||
|
One of Us |
How about the lazzeroni firebird? I know Savage had a short term deal a while ago to chamber their rounds. A 160 grain is pushed to 3550 fps. Not my cup of tea but what ever floats your boat. "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." -- General George S. Patton | |||
|
| One of Us |
Brass for the Lazzeroni calibers are insane. If someone happened to have a large stock of brass for cheap, maybe. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| One of Us |
go with the RUM, no need for a belt in a rifle like this. all it is, is wasted powder space  If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
One of Us |
If it's "scream" that you want, neck down the 30-378 Weatherby to 7mm... Dies are easy to order... Or of course you can just leave it as a 30-378 and shoot pills from 120 grains up to 250 grains, all at speeds that are IMPRESSIVE... Ken.... "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so. " - Ronald Reagan | |||
|
| One of Us |
What velocities could I get from a 7mm-378 Wby? Any pictures or diagrams of a case? Brass is sort of an issue with that caliber, but not near like a Lazzeroni. What do I gain over a RUM in this? I see no need for a 30 caliber, more recoil and muzzleblast with bullets of a lower BC until you get to extreme weights. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wish I could give you more info here but I've only heard of folks wildcatting this cartridge to 7mm... Make no mistake, when you are looking at 104 - 120 grains of powder you will be getting some SERIOUS speed from this setup.. However it is substantially overbore and I suspect a fairly short lived throat... If I find some details for this cartridge I'll certainly let you know... Ken.... "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so. " - Ronald Reagan | |||
|
one of us |
7mm RUM brass is easy to come by, it is a popular caliber now, and it will kill whatever you want I cannot think of a more reasonable 7mm on the high end However, fwiw, this cal and the stw can be picky on many bullets. "fussy" is the word I've seen used to describe them in some forums. Folks like John Burns have gone back to the plain jane 7mm Rem Mag and 168 Berger VLDs You can also talk to Kirby Allen and check into his 7mm Allen Mag. He frequents Longrangehunting.com I do not know specs on his design for 7mm. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
|
| one of us |
I have the remington 7mm Mag with a 26" barrel It is a great rifle. | |||
|
| one of us |
i'm in process of building a 7mm stw DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR | |||
|
one of us |
Savage chambered their guns in RUM by modifying the action cuts. Try to find one if those, so you don't have to open up the ejection and magazine areas. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have talked to Kirby about his Allen Mag, but dies are expensive, and he has the reamers to do the barrel. Brass is very expensive for the 338 Lapua, although high quality. I hear he does excellent work, but with me not even being old enough to buy a rifle, I don't have the kind of funds needed. Someday I would like one of his rifles in 338 Allen Mag, 300 grainers well past 3300 fps. What would the difference in a 7mm RUM, 7mm STW and 7mm Rem Mag be in a 30" barrel with bullet weights 160+? Add the 7mm-378 Wby in there if anyone has ballistics or loads on it. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
One of Us |
7 RUM for the speed...it realy shoots fast! 7 RUM for the cost...it is the cheapest ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
|
| one of us |
The RUM and STW will be almost like twins. Either one will do what the other will on game. If you are going to use a 30" barrel, I'd certainly go with the regular ol 7mm Rem Mag. I have one and will NEVER part with it. It is easiest on the wallet and is a very accurate caliber. Very accurate. The 7 rem mag will also be the slowest in terms of velocity, but my gut tells me that it will be the least fussy. Your call, easiest and cheapest vs. more velocity, maybe more finicky and more expensive. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
|
| One of Us |
I already have the 7mm Rem in 24" barrel, I like the cartridge, but I would like something more suited to heavier bullets. A 200 grain bullet with a BC over .8, going 3000 fps is amazing. A 180 grain Berger could meet 3100-3200 fps with a BC of .698. The 7mm Rem just can't achieve these velocities. EDIT-And according to all the reloading data I see, neither can any other hot 7mms. How much do you guys go over maxes to achieve the 3500 fps from a 140 grainer? Is the STW like the 45-70 in that it is safe to go over listed maxes?(in certain cases) The RUM looks slower than I originally thought also, ammoguide lists 104 grain capacity, but it's velocities aren't that impressive for using so much powder. Is the STW really equal to the RUM with 10 grains less powder? Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
one of us |
Another vote for the 7 RUM. When you need it and don't have it you'll be singing a different tune. | |||
|
One of Us |
I fine it interesting how all these young guys (and a few old guys) cream their pants over the super 7s. Just a question,,, But why? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Easier to shoot long ranges accurately, higher BC, more energy when it gets there, less kick than the 30's, good selection of bullets, good sectional density of bullets, factory rounds available most anywhere, does everything a high BC 338 bullet does with less authority, easily over 1000 ft lbs past 1000 yards, I like new stuff, high velocity is fun, and 7mms are cool! Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| One of Us |
And you believe all that is relevant in the real world? I find that interesting. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would have chosen the 7mm RUM but I bought a 7mmSTW as I did not want a remington rifle, they had one sako 75 ss 7mm STW on special so I chose that.................I accepted a reduction in velocity for what I feel is the better gun over a rem 700 XCR. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Alrighty Mick, say you have your trusty 308 with factory loads. You see a buck at 400 yards. Well, with your 150 grain factory loads from Remington, your bullet will be 33 inches low at 400 yards, and hit with 1117.3 ft lbs of energy when it gets there. Same scenario, but lets say you have a 7mm-08, a better caliber in my opinion. You're still using Remington loads, but this time they are 140 grain. Only 30.4 inches of drop this time, and 1187.7 lbs of energy! Darn those 7mms! But 3 inches isn't relevant in the real world, nor is 80 ft lbs. Lets step it up. This time, we're using a handloaded 7mm RUM or STW with 120 grain BTs at 3700 fps. At 400 yards, only 15.3 inches of drop, and this is assuming a 100 yard zero. You also get almost 2000 ft lbs of energy. Now, lets use those 140 grain bullets, we'll say same calibers, but with a 140 grainer at 3600 fps, something most likely a 30" barrel can achieve. 15.4 inches low, and 2400 ft lbs of energy delivered! Now, where the big 7s really shine, 168 grain VLD bullets at 3250 fps. At 400 yards 19 inches low, and almost 2600 ft lbs. I would prefer this over a smaller caliber any day. And at long ranges, a 180 or 200 grain bullets, that is more aerodynamic than most all 30 caliber projectiles will have better ballistics out to 1000 yards and further, if you care to shoot that far. I myself am interested in long range shooting, and if you aren't that's fine, but 400 yards isn't all that far, and I would like to know I can take an animal every time off a solid rest. Heck, sight in at 300 yards, and you can hold on the animal past 400 yards with the hot 7mms. Not so with other cartridges. Past that, a couple clicks puts you dead on at longer ranges, compared to cranking the elevation dial for slower shells. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I like the 7MM's own a few ;that said a 30/378 is much more impressive at all aspects . Does an animal know if 2000 lb. of energy hit's it or 5500 lb. ? ,if it's dead it's dead . If it's impressive you want build a .264 X 50MM now that's impressive numbers !. Happy New Year. ...  | |||
|
One of Us |
All you've said is true, BUT: You don't get something for nothing - those large-capacity, small-bore cartridges are often very difficult to load to the performance levels you describe and retain anything resembling accuracy. IF you don't burn out your barrel finding a good load, you will burn it out shortly thereafter! I think, in 7mm, it is better to use a round that holds no more powder that the 7mm Remington or 7mm Weatherby Magnums. Roy Weatherby was a real nut for high velocity - ever wonder why his 7mm does not have a bigger case?? "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
|
| one of us |
It is certainly true that the big 7s have advantages and disadvantages and most have been pointed out already. Some years ago I was in the mood for a new rifle and stumbled upon a Sendero in 7mm Ultra. I wasn't really expecting much as I had heard the caliber was touchy to load for and hard on barrels. Anyway, I bought it. I will say that accuracy has just been ok - I have many rifles that shoot better groups. However, the Ultra shoots good groups and continues to hold those groups at very long ranges. Using 160 Accubonds and a scope with target turrets in a long range mount I have been able to make some of the longest shots ever. The rifle is not a general purpose item but for shooting accross canyons or beanfields it will get the job done and I really do like it. | |||
|
| one of us |
As often is the case, good, insightful intel from El Deguello. Well said my man! | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, this is where some folks get themselves into trouble. You may just be fooling yourself. As I said before, look at John Burns. As experienced as he is at LRH/S, even he went back to the 7 rem mag for ACCURACY. More over, you should realize that if you do decide to go with a 168 VLD style bullet, more often than not, (and in fact, closer to 100% of the time), you will now have a single shot rifle due to the nature of this bullet and it's best overall accuracy being achieved from starting very close to, at, or into the lands. Thus, loaded rounds usually will not fit into the magazine. I didn't know if you knew that or not. There is certainly nothing wrong with the STW or RUM, nothing at all. Many are deadly accurate with good hunting bullets. But I disagree that the bigger 7s make it easier to shoot long range more accurately. Flatter maybe, but accuracy is governed by more than powder charge. Regardless, good luck with whatever you choose.  Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
|
One of Us |
A local shop has a couple of brandnew Savage 116s without the accutrigger, chambered in 300 Rem Ultra Mag, for $299.00... They can't seem to move them.. Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wow, $299...wish I lived near you, do they have a website? I understand the gun being a single shot, unless I get the magazine well lengthened, but if I am shooting long ranges, I shouldn't need a quick second shot anyways. I also like the fact that there wouldn't be a chance of recoil messing up the seating of the bullets. I was actually thinking of a 180 or 200 grain bullet too, and as I burn out the throat on the rifle it would allow me to seat the extra long bullets further. With a 30" barrel I could probaly get 1000 shots of 1 MOA accuracy, then I could cut it back to 28" and do the same thing getting at least 500 more shots at MOA and slightly reduced velocity. I am just getting into my shooting and reloading life, I have a looong time to experiment with different cartridges and barrels, I'm glad I got into this site so early and you guys helped me start reloading. I planned on using whichever hot 7mm I chose for hunting and little practice, then putting on a milder caliber, maybe the 7mm Rem barrel I already have, or the 6mm Ackley barrel I already have, or picking up a used .308, 7mm-08, 260 Rem, 223, anything with long barrel life to practice. I do not plan on going with a 30-378, I think the 7mms can do anything a 30 can with less recoil. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| one of us |
I have owned three 7mmstw rifles and one 7mm ultramag.Not one of them was "fussy".All four rifles will easily do 3/4 moa with several loads and my two remaining 7mmstws will do 1/2 moa with their favorite loads. My 7mmstws will produce about 3500fps with 140gr bullets,with 80gr of imr 7828 which is the maximum load in my hodgdons manual.Coincidently both also produce almost exactly the velocity listed in the manual. My 7mmultramag adds 50fps to 75fps depending on the bullet weight. If I had to pick one,it would be the 7mmstw since it gives up very little velocity but barrel life is better. | |||
|
| One of Us |
How much better barrel life? I recall you saying you do these velocities in a 26" barrel? How much should I gain with a 30" barrel? Also, where do you find these loads in manuals that are so fast? All I have seen is pretty anemic stuff. If you could, please send me some of the load data. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| One of Us |
299 for a RUM Savage??? Dang, wish I lived by you too! I'd snatch one up in a heartbeat for a 404 Jeff conversion like the one on the classified forum!! If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
|
| one of us |
Try the Hodgdons 26th edition manual for 7mmstw loads.My case life is good,and my velocities match the listed velocities.I also have the Nosler number 4 manual,but the 7mmstw loads are pathetic.Then again that same Nosler manual has the 300win mag with a 24" barrel producing more maximum velocity with a 165gr bullet than the 300wby with a 26" barrel.Go figure.As for barrel life,I have put 1500 rounds through my first 7mmstw and the accuracy was still good.From what I have seen,most people don't see that with the 7mmRUM.With the 7mmx378,I wouldn't expect more than 800 rounds max before the throat is on the way out. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ok, it's down to STW or RUM...tough decision, they seem pretty close, and except for the people who post their own loads, I haven't seen the RUM beat the STW yet. I do not have the 26th manual, do you have a scanner so I could see some of the loads they have? Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| one of us |
 | |||
|
Moderator |
speed? 7 rum, without a doubt for me? 280 rem, not ai, or 708 opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| one of us |
more data  | |||
|
| one of us |
last one  | |||
|
| new member |
i shoot 140 game kings in my stw it will shoot .5 moa all day long using h4831, h1000, retumbo, and imr7828ssc all over 3400 fps. thats out of a 28 inch shilen select match barrel | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes, the 7828ssc is supposed to let you go a couple grains more, I think 3600 fps is achievable. Thanks alot stubblejumper! Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Has anyone tried the Vihtavouri High Energy powders? I heard a 10% increase in velocity over other maxes, that would be smoking! "The Vihtavuori solution for driving heavy bullets to long range, loading with these powders will provide increases of muzzle velocity of up to 50 m/sec with outstanding accuracy and no pressure increase." "Although these new powders have a higher energy content, they do not cause greater wear to the gun. This is because the surface of the powder has been treated with an agent designed to reduce barrel wear." I can't find their 560 powder anywhere, it is for high capacity overbore magnums, and is supposed to give increased barrel life. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Battle of the 7mm cartridges
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia