quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I fine it interesting how all these young guys (and a few old guys) cream their pants over the super 7s.

Just a question,,, But why?

I personaly hate most if all magnums mostly because they hurt to shoot!!!

I shoot the best 7 of them all IMO the 7-08

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I myself am interested in long range shooting, and if you aren't that's fine, but 400 yards isn't all that far, and I would like to know I can take an animal every time off a solid rest. Heck, sight in at 300 yards, and you can hold on the animal past 400 yards with the hot 7mms. Not so with other cartridges. Past that, a couple clicks puts you dead on at longer ranges, compared to cranking the elevation dial for slower shells.

You make a strong case, however, what about mother nature? True 400 yards isn't an excessive poke, but what do you think would happen with some wind or a mirage thrown in? Few people have the needed skill to "drive" such a rifle/bullet combination, and the rest, well they'd just be burnin' powder.

On an elk hunt two years ago my buddy took his bull at 460 yards. The limiting factor was wind, not range or power. Every shot that connected passed plumb thru, and the miss, well it went high as the bull tipped over. The rifle used was a plain Jane Sendero in 300 Win mag chucking 180 grain partitions at 3000f/s. Nothing super about it, just good old fashioned skill and marksmanship.

Tyler,

I've got a Savage Tactical in 7mm Remington Magnum. O.K., it's onyl got a 24" barrel on it, and I'd love to have some more length on the tube. Have never needed anything else because it'll plunck-'em accurately a long-g-g way down range.

Go to some of the Sniper websites and see what's being said about Long Range poking. There are plenty of exoctics out there but .308 Win. & 7mm Rem. Mag. are noted as some the vanilla-flavored accurate favorites for this purpose, too.

I'm using VV N-560 in the 7mm Rem. Mag. haven't had time to put the loads over the screens yet since I'm too busy dancing about the firing-line at the 1000 meter range due to the fantastic accuracy.

I'll stick with my lowly "little" 7mm Rem Mag with 175gr Hornady SPs and Partitions. It may be "slow", but it is accurate, especially with Hornady bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
Tyler,

I'm using VV N-560 in the 7mm Rem. Mag. haven't had time to put the loads over the screens yet since I'm too busy dancing about the firing-line at the 1000 meter range due to the fantastic accuracy.

LOL Gerry

How about the 7mm Dakota hows that compared to the 7stw or the 7rum? I know that it should get you pretty close to the others velocities,any thoughts?
Elmer

The 7mm Dakota is basically a twin to the STW, but brass is more expensive, although higher quality. I'm not sure, but I think they require an odd sized bolt face.

I guess when I get the...gulp...STW, I'll try some of the VV560.

Currently, I know I don't have the skills to read the wind well, but I want to improve upon that, and having high BC bullets going fast can only help. I feel confident out to 500 now, but I would like to shoot longer ranges and see what it's like. A farmer near me has some fields that go waaaaaaaay out there, I'm hoping he will let me shoot in them.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
The 7mm Dakota is basically a twin to the STW, but brass is more expensive, although higher quality. I'm not sure, but I think they require an odd sized bolt face.

I guess when I get the...gulp...STW, I'll try some of the VV560.

Currently, I know I don't have the skills to read the wind well, but I want to improve upon that, and having high BC bullets going fast can only help. I feel confident out to 500 now, but I would like to shoot longer ranges and see what it's like. A farmer near me has some fields that go waaaaaaaay out there, I'm hoping he will let me shoot in them.

well you arnt going to get any better at long range shooting by limiting yourself to 300 yards are ya?

only one thing for it, Practice! atleast your having a rifle built to shoot long range. im sure you'll get better at it. stick a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X56 NP-R2 on top of it and your ready to go!

best of luck.

Hahahaha, you send the Nightforce my way and I'll review it for you.

They cost as much as my car...literally.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
Has anyone tried the Vihtavouri High Energy powders? I heard a 10% increase in velocity over other maxes, that would be smoking!

"The Vihtavuori solution for driving heavy bullets
to long range, loading with these powders will provide increases of muzzle velocity
of up to 50 m/sec with outstanding accuracy and no pressure increase."

"Although these new powders have a higher energy content, they do not
cause greater wear to the gun. This is because the surface of the powder has been
treated with an agent designed to reduce barrel wear."

I can't find their 560 powder anywhere, it is for high capacity overbore magnums, and is supposed to give increased barrel life.

Tyler,

I've just been working with N570 in a 300RUM.....it put the 200 Naturalis into .4 with 94 grains and a 215M. But with an almighty BANG Retumbo will work in both the 300 and 7mmRUM's as well.

I have a 7mmRUM and have not found it at all fussy to load for, those necked down/over bore rounds tend to shoot all bullet weights into the group..........I found that with a 7mmSTW as well..........

Does the special powder produce extra velocity? Obviously it is capable of good accuracy which is more important.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
Currently, I know I don't have the skills to read the wind well, but I want to improve upon that...

Well, just so you know, it is impossible to "read wind" the entire distance between you and your game. The best you can do is read it where you are. The rest is a guessing game.

You can have a 5mph wind at the end of your muzzle and a 20mph wind 400 yards away gusting in a different direction, or at least not identical to where you are.

I'll have to second the above listed Nightforce scope and reticle. I have that exact scope on my 270 AM.

Hey Tyler, good choice. I went thru all these considerations (energy, trajectory, recoil; and 7s vs. 30s vs. 338s), and decided on the 7STW for my next African plains game rifle.

Trust me, don't get any of these magnum calibers without a good muzzle brake, or you will regret it (sooner rather than later).

BTW I've used VV560 in my 243AI when I couldn't find 160. It works just as well, but is a tad faster as I recall. They have a similar burn rate to H414, but are all too fast for best results in the 7STW.

Right on Blackhawk! My exact choice also. Must be a Nebraska thing! I have never had my 7 mag fail to kill anything for lack of velocity. (deer, elk, gemsbok)

What's wrong with being a better hunter and getting closer instead of just being a shooter? If you can't learn the bullet drop at 400 yards, then get closer!

quote:

Trust me, don't get any of these magnum calibers without a good muzzle brake, or you will regret it (sooner rather than later).

I have never found the 7mmstw to produce recoil that isn't easily manageable for someone that does a lot of shooting.I will never own a brake on any rifle.

I WILL have a brake on for practice and for spotting my own hits, but I will only shoot it with muffs and plugs. It will come off for hunting, and recoil shouldn't be as bad as my 45-70 anyways. This gun will be heavy, since I am going for a 30" barrel, this gun will be a cheapo long range setup. Sometime in January a Boyds target/varmint stock should arrive, I might add weight to it to balance the gun, plus I have a heavy scope to go on it. A 13+ lb STW should have less recoil than my 7mm Rem now.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
I have never found the 7mmstw to produce recoil that isn't easily manageable for someone that does a lot of shooting.I will never own a brake on any rifle.

Felt recoil is different for all shooters. But I agree with you. I have found that the more shooting I do, recoil is managed better. Unfortunately many shooters need muzzle suppression with calibers much lighter than the magnums. I advise that each hunter shoot a rifle to their tolerance. If they choose to shoot a caliber that exceeds their comfort zone, get a brake, thus increasing their tolerance. It's not a big deal to tote ear protection.

On Longrangehunting.com the 338 Allen Mag is a common cartridge. 300 grains well past 3000 fps is just too much to shoot precisely without a brake. I have no problems with brakes as long as it isn't the guy next to me.

quote:

A 13+ lb STW should have less recoil than my 7mm Rem now.

According to my recoil calculator,a 13 lb 7mmstw driving a 140gr bullet at 3600fps will have the exact same recoil as a 9 lb 7mmremmag driving a 140gr bullet at 3200fps.

I shoot a 160 at 2900, how does that compare?

Here you go.

http://huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

Sweet, I found the Eskimo site too. It's pretty awesome.

Another link someone may find useful.

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html

Well I think I will go with an accuracy arms prefit Shilen, match grade, 30" (+$40) in 7mm STW. I hope going with a high intensity caliber doesn't hurt the barrel nut...
http://accuracyarms.com/Shelin_Savage.htm

I'll probably go with the Vaporizer brake from straightshotgunsmithing.com, only $80 and it looks nice.

I would try the gun without the brake first.It can always be added later.

I will have to put the gun together anyways to find the true top and bottom of the barrel, I will shoot it while it's together. I want to be able to spot myself, so I brake will most likely be added. I may just get a brake for my 6mm AI, then whenever the 7mm is put together, bore it out to allow the 7mm bullet and use it on both. It wouldn't be as effective on the 6mm anymore, but it should still be good enough to let me spot shots with both.

I really don't think there is enough difference between the Ultra and STW in terms of ballistics to be concerned about. What one can do the other can. My choice would be based upon the rifle not the caliber. When I bought my Sendero in 7mm Ultra I would have been just as happy (maybe more so) with a Model 70 in 7mm STW. I just found the Ultra first and have been very happy with it. In fact, I have become a real fan of the Sendero because of it. Many of my friends have owned Senderos in a variety of calibers and I have yet to see one that wouldn't shoot well.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
Does the special powder produce extra velocity? Obviously it is capable of good accuracy which is more important.

I have not chronographed the load, but Lapua list it at 3160 from a 26" barrel.......mine has a 27incher

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I WILL have a brake on for practice and for spotting my own hits, but I will only shoot it with muffs and plugs. It will come off for hunting, and recoil shouldn't be as bad as my 45-70 anyways. This gun will be heavy, since I am going for a 30" barrel, this gun will be a cheapo long range setup. Sometime in January a Boyds target/varmint stock should arrive, I might add weight to it to balance the gun, plus I have a heavy scope to go on it. A 13+ lb STW should have less recoil than my 7mm Rem now.

Doesn't the POI change after you pull the brake off?

Terry

I have been told it will have a small change. Nothing 5 shots at the range won't take care of. Theoretically it should change the POI the same amount every time I take it on and off, although I wouldn't be brave enough to shoot at an animal without checking zero.

I hear ya. I'm in the same boat with you needing a long range hunting rifle.

I have aquired hunting rights this year to an old soybean field with woods on 2 sides. It's about 1 mile long and 1/2 mile wide and fills up with deer every afternoon. Needless to say you can shoot as far as a good conscience will allow.

What I'm thinking about doing is a heavy barrel rig with light recoil and a good scope with an elevation turret. Then taking a lot of time and figuring out the distance and clicks on the scope with a laser range finder. After I get reasonably comfortable with it I'll write all the info on a piece of paper and tape it on the side of the stock and dial and shoot.

I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. Being a little recoil shy I'm just trying a different approch to the same problem.

Right now I'm thinking a .270win, 6.5X284 or maybe a .260Rem


Best of luck to ya,
Terry

I think it is a mistake to range a rifle with a brake, and hunt without it. It's extra work and time, and can cause confusion when there is a difference in POI.

I have checked a couple of rifles with and without the brake and one had very little variation, while the other was 2" high and 3/4" left.

I prefer the keep it simple method. Modify the rifle the way you want it and leave it alone. JMO. If you need a brake on it at the range, then leave it one when you hunt and carry a simple set of ear plugs. It's really no big deal.

Good luck.

TC1 if you want a long range rig, might as well make it heavy. I know I can shoot a normal weight 270 plenty of times without flinching, if you make a gun you know you will be shooting just long range and always rested, it could be 13 pounds and in a heavier caliber. I am just partial to the 7mm I guess. Folks on longrangehunting.com have taken deer with 1 shot out to 600 yards with 22 calibers. I am not condoning this, but on a calm deer a .243 caliber bullet would do fine out to 500. All the 6mms would have very low recoil in anything reasonable heavy.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I think it is a mistake to range a rifle with a brake, and hunt without it. It's extra work and time, and can cause confusion when there is a difference in POI.

I have checked a couple of rifles with and without the brake and one had very little variation, while the other was 2" high and 3/4" left.

I prefer the keep it simple method. Modify the rifle the way you want it and leave it alone. JMO. If you need a brake on it at the range, then leave it one when you hunt and carry a simple set of ear plugs. It's really no big deal.

Good luck.

I agree.

Think about a 7 Rem throated to seat 160's/175's flush with the base of the neck. The factory setup doesn'do that, and thus doesn't use all the case. I'll bet you can get those heavier bullets up to 3200 maybe more with a good 30 inch barrel. Cheaper route for brass and dies. Save your money on brass and dies and get the best barrel you can buy. If you want guaranteed hyper velocity, go the 7 STW or 7 RUM, but both calibers are well overbore capacity. I believe the 7 STW would be a good compromise, in the long barrel with appropriate powders.

What about the 7mm STW with 160/175 seated flush with the base of the neck? Same advantage, as the factory uses anemic loads with 140's seated deep. If the 7mm Rem could do 3200 with 160s, the STW could do 3400+ with 168s, although I wouldn't push them that fast. Being a new reloader I err on the side of absolute safety, I'm glad stubblejumper had those reload recipes that were better than the online ones, they weren't any more then the Rem Mag.

Though it is possible under ideal conditions it makes me cringe when I hear about these across the canyon shots.

How good are you at estimating what is 400 yards? How much drift is associated with a 10 or 20 mph crosswind? How many deer/elk at 400 yards have you shot in the leg? Or the ass? Have you walked across the canyon or bean field to see if there was any blood?

I've seen guys make these long range shots. The deer didn't drop in their tracks. "Must have missed." Move onto the next one. Hmmmm.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:


All you've said is true, BUT: You don't get something for nothing - those large-capacity, small-bore cartridges are often very difficult to load to the performance levels you describe and retain anything resembling accuracy. IF you don't burn out your barrel finding a good load, you will burn it out shortly thereafter!

I think, in 7mm, it is better to use a round that holds no more powder that the 7mm Remington or 7mm Weatherby Magnums. Roy Weatherby was a real nut for high velocity - ever wonder why his 7mm does not have a bigger case??

As often is the case, good, insightful intel from El Deguello.

Well said my man!

Thanks for ther kind words, Fish!

I have several 7X57mm's and one EARLY (four-figure SN) Ruger No. 1B in 7mm Remington Magnum with the early 26" Douglas Premium Grade barrel on it. I hae never fired any more than 3-shot groups with it, but it will give slightly more that 3350 FPS @ 10', with 140-grain Nosler Partition bullets shooting these into a little over .5" @ 100 yards using 71.5 grains of H4831. And it delivers 3050 FPS @ 10' with the 175-grain Nosler Partition and 70 grains of IMR 7828. This 175-grain load shoots into 1" @ 200 yards. I have never tried this load for target grouping at any greater distance than 200. If I zero the 175-grain load dead on @ 300 yards, the bullet has a maximum ordinate of 4.5", and will be -9" @ 400 yards and -25" @ 500 yards ( not that I would ever shoot at a game animal much over 350 with it). It is still carrying 1900 foot pounds at 500 yards. To me, this appears adequate for anything in North America....... I stopped using the 140-grain bullet. It is too destructive on edible game!

El Duguello, why not use something like a 160 grain Accubond? With the velocities you are getting, 3100 or 3150 would be flatter shooting and the bullet has a better BC. Or a 168 grain Berger, VLDs perform well on game.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
I hear ya. I'm in the same boat with you needing a long range hunting rifle.

I have aquired hunting rights this year to an old soybean field with woods on 2 sides. It's about 1 mile long and 1/2 mile wide and fills up with deer every afternoon. Needless to say you can shoot as far as a good conscience will allow.

What I'm thinking about doing is a heavy barrel rig with light recoil and a good scope with an elevation turret. Then taking a lot of time and figuring out the distance and clicks on the scope with a laser range finder. After I get reasonably comfortable with it I'll write all the info on a piece of paper and tape it on the side of the stock and dial and shoot.

I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. Being a little recoil shy I'm just trying a different approch to the same problem.

Right now I'm thinking a .270win, 6.5X284 or maybe a .260Rem


Best of luck to ya,
Terry

In the last 15 years I have had built 4 big firld rifles: 300 win mag, 300/378,25'06 & 270win. The current 270 is a m70 action in a custom laminated stock weighing 9.75# with a Leupold 3.5x10 ill scope. I doubt I'll build another because this works really well. My longest 375yds because that's the far corner of my food plot. 99% of my shots are in low light conditions where adjusting the crosshairs is not possible. I strongly recommend using an illuminated scope because it'll give you an extra 10-15 minutes of shooting time.