What would be your choice in a brown bear gun? Make, model, caliber,and scope?

Im looking at a hunt in 2009.
Thank you for help..

Weatherby Mark 5 in 338/378 fitted with Leupold 4.5x14x50. 250gr Nosler Partitions.

Go look thru the Alaska section and you'll find this has been hashed over many times..

Mauser action

Laminated stock

Stainless barrel -cut to 23"

338 Win mag, 250 grain Nosler Partitions.

Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x scope with detachable talley rings. SOLID iron sights as back up

The works made to feed properly & be dead nuts reliable.

Mauser action

Laminated stock

Stainless barrel -cut to 23"

.35 Whelen, 250 grain A-Frames

Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x scope with detachable talley rings. SOLID iron sights as back up

The works made to feed properly & be dead nuts reliable.

OK....I edited it a bit!

I go along with VD---- Maybe my .358 x .404 IMP instead of the Wehlen but only because that's what I have. roger

The macho big bore fanatics will disagree, but fact is anything from about .30-06 and up will work fine on the biggest Bear with correct shot placement. The bigger, the harder they hit, and may stop a bear faster IF you are able to place your shots accurately from your two hind feet under stress. Most that find an .06 too small do so because they can not shoot it well enough, so they figure bigger must work better. Then they use a larger caliber shot placement really goes to hell. That said, my rifle of choice would be my Sako L61R .300 WM, it's 1.5-5 Leupold scope, and 180 grain Barnes TSX bullets. If you can't keep 2 magazines of ammo on a 8" paper plate at a given distance while firing them as quickly as possible, then the calibers too big for you. A 500 grain .458 at 2,400 FPS, in a big Bears @$$ will piss it off! While a little bullet through it's heart, will kill it grave yard dead.

Remington 700 in .375 Rem Ultra Mag SS with laminated stock, shooting 270 gr Barnes TSX bullets at 3040 fps. Scope is a Leupold 2-7x.

Today, I would take one of my 9.3x62's loaded with the 286 gr Partition. If I owned nothing I would likely buy a 375 Ruger Alaskan, restock it in a better synthetic and load some 270 gr TSX's.

338 who ever Mag. with Minimum 225 - 250 a partition pill is an excellent choice .

A quality scope of 1-6 power I also agree with Iron Sights if it pops up close and personal all of a sudden like .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

depends on whether you want to just shoot the bear and have your guide kill it for you, or kill it yourself with one good shot. The two overwhelming choices by Alaskans seem to be the 1895 guide gun in 45-70 or the 375 H&H in a bolt rifle. Phil Shoemaker is a guide up there and he carries a 458WM...has some kind of phobia about being mauled/eaten by a bear.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Thank you all for the help! Looks like to me most here like a 250gr bullet. I have a Rem700 in 358STA with a 2.5-8x36 Leupold sitting in a Mcmillan stocks. But I was thinken about a Sako in 375H&H.

I use a M70 SS 338 with Leupold 2.5x8 and use 250gr Noslers.

Don't quite understand the above remark about having to have your guide kill it for you - never saw a bear survive long after a good hit from the 338.

Also, I have never seen a 45-70 anything in the field -- see and hear lots about them on the interenet, though.

Non magnum: .338-06, .35 Whelen

Magnum: .338 WM, .340 Wby

All bolt action (of course). Make doesn't really matter. It's all good. Just make sure you can shoot it right and use 250g bullets.

9,3x62 Mauser with 286 NPTs

What rifle do you shoot now?

Right now I have a 30-06 with some 220 nosler loads worked out. So that is what I would use if I went guided.

Since I am a resident and dont need a guide I will most likely take my 500 S&W handi rifle with some 375 XPB's at 1900.

If a guide is trigger happy it wont matter what caliber rifle is in your hands as it is shot placement that drops bears. The only bears that I have heard not get up from the first shot were hit with 300 winny's and 200 partitions. ( https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8521043/m/161101138 -Alaska forum "reaction to brown bears being hit)

Not an experienced bear hunter,
But I would take the most powerfull rifle I could shoot well, provided it was, as another poster said," dead nutz reliable".
If the shot is likly to be close, I can't think of much I would prefer over my marlin 45/70. But frankly I would prefer a shot in the 150 yard range and then I think we revert to my 1st comment.
I have thought of building a 416 taylor as a bear rifle.
But you STA if you trust the push feed action would certainly be enough cartridge.
...tj3006

9.3x62 Mauser

Lots of good options, for shorter ranges I'd take .338-06, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62mm. They'll all work a treat when loaded with their heavy bullet weights.

For longer ranges I'd step up to a .338 Winchester Magnum as the minimum, it is pretty much ideal for mixed terrain hunting. Stepping up to a .358 STA or a 9.3x64mm is also not a bad thing, those rounds will put the hurt on the biggest bears out there.

For any kind of hunting involving pushing heavy bush and thick alders where shots can come at 10 feet, the .375 H&H with 300 grain pills would be a good place to start, I'd even go up to a .416 or a .458 if I had the money to build a rifle specifically for the hunt. Thomas Jones is on the right track with the .416 Taylor suggestion for that kind of hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
Not an experienced bear hunter,
".
If the shot is likly to be close, I can't think of much I would prefer over my marlin 45/70.

FYI! It took 5 shots from a 45-70 to dispatch 3 toes, the last known Grizzily killed in Colorado. roger

When I hunt the Big Brown Bears again I will be armed with one of my two .358 STA's. I will have a 270 grain North Fork loaded (I managed to have seven boxs when Mike closed shop) at 2900 fps. If I take a son or grandson they will be armed with one of the following, .340 Wby or .338 Lapua loaded with 240 grain North Forks at 3000 fps. Good shooting.

I think you should start at 338 caliber and go up from there.

I know some people will debate this, but the simple fact is bigger diameter kills better and higher velocity kills farther.

If I was going this spring, I would take my 338-06. But there are lots of cartridges that will work.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by phurley5:
When I hunt the Big Brown Bears again I will be armed with one of my two .358 STA's. I will have a 270 grain North Fork loaded (I managed to have seven boxs when Mike closed shop) at 2900 fps. If I take a son or grandson they will be armed with one of the following, .340 Wby or .338 Lapua loaded with 240 grain North Forks at 3000 fps. Good shooting.[/QUOTE
Isn't that way overkill? You must be a bad shot if you're useing a big gun. Any Deer gun will do. What dribble. If I'm going strickly Browny hunting my .416 Rem with 350 TSXs is going.

I am hoping Vapodog is right on as I will be taking my 35 Whelen w/250 A Frames. Leave in seven weeks for Sitka and the Islands. With a little luck I will be able to confirm the choice w/pics and a few interesting stories early in June.

Muygrande, I would like to hear more about the hunt when you get back. I have a 35 too and hope I'll get there someday soon.

I use a winchester 70 in 470 capstick or if I'm in a nostalgic mood a 50 alaskan lever action.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
depends on whether you want to just shoot the bear and have your guide kill it for you, or kill it yourself with one good shot. The two overwhelming choices by Alaskans seem to be the 1895 guide gun in 45-70 or the 375 H&H in a bolt rifle. Phil Shoemaker is a guide up there and he carries a 458WM...has some kind of phobia about being mauled/eaten by a bear.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Excuse me but a minor quibble on semantics...

First a statement of fact: a Phobia is by definition an "unreasonable fear"

Now with that as a given if you say... lived in Manhattan or Miami in a hi-rise apartment having a "phobia" about getting mauled and eaten by a bear would be "unreasonable"

but living in alaska, much less being a bear hunting guide in alaska makes that fear a very reasonable one, thus making your use of the
adjective "phobia" incorrect...

Honestly having to deal with a "highly agitated" bear (and if some asshole shot you you'd be ticked off too) and worried about it mauling/killing/eating you is anything but "unreasonable"

My choice in a rifle is the alaskan bear safari fairy granted my nightly wish for collecting my own bearskin rug would be a Remington 700Alaskan wilderness Rifle in either 338WinMag, 338RUM, 375RUM or 416Rem.

what scope? something in a variable with an illuminated reticle.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
Not an experienced bear hunter,
".
If the shot is likly to be close, I can't think of much I would prefer over my marlin 45/70.

FYI! It took 5 shots from a 45-70 to dispatch 3 toes, the last known Grizzily killed in Colorado. roger

Bartsche,

Exactly how long ago was that?

the reason I ask is that there is a world of difference between a factory loaded 45-70 as produced 20-30 years ago (or far, far longer)
and a modern HANDLOADED 45-70...

you don't qualify your statement about "three toes".

AD

Here is what Phil Shoemaker had to say about the 30-06 on the Big Bears.

Posted here; http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...gonew/1#UNREAD



458Win
Campfire Regular


Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Circle Hot Spring, AK

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The bears today are no larger or tougher than the bears of 50 years ago when the 30-06 was by far the most popular rifle carried by Alaskan guides. Andy Simms and Hosea Sarber and a hundred others found nothing wanting with the 30-06 then, and now, with the bullets we have today, the 30-06 is even better.

Contrary to some opinions, guides who recommend 30 calibers for bears do so to insure that they do not have to shoot their client's bears.

ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THE 30-06 IS INNEFFECTIVE HAS EITHER NOT TRIED ONE - OR IS UNINTENTIALLY COMMENTING ON THEIR MARKSMANSHIP. _________________________


Here is a link to a kill in self defense on a Polar Bear with a AR-15 in 223

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Polar bear killed near village in Interior Alaska

By Mary Beth Smetzer
http://newsminer.com/news/2008/mar/2...ed-fort-yukon/



A polar bear wandering around the outskirts of the Interior village of Fort Yukon, 250 miles inland from its normal coastal habitat, was spotted eating lynx carcasses Thursday morning and was killed later in the day because of safety concerns.
The bear was first spotted outside a cabin on the edge of town by Peter John, said Tony Carroll, who had recently been skinning lynx at the cabin.
Most people didn’t believe him, Carroll said, but as word spread around town, more than a half dozen hunters began tracking the bear.
Zeb Cadzow, maintenance director at the Council of Athabascan Tribal Government, took off work after lunch to join in the hunt.
“There’s usually grizzly around this time of year,†he said. “You want to get rid of it because it’s hungry.â€
The men tracked the bear three miles out of town to the Porcupine River, where it moved onto a river island.
At that point, most of the hunters returned to Fort Yukon for a sled dog race, leaving Cadzow, 30, and Paul Herbert, 60, to continue the hunt.
“We assumed we were chasing a grizzly bear,†Herbert said.
Cadzow concurred, thinking the white description meant it was an albino bear or a grizzly covered in frost.
While Herbert waited at one end of the island, Cadzow, on foot, went into the brush tracking the bear.
Suddenly, the bear came out from under a brush pile about 10 yards away. It charged straight at Cadzow, who was carrying an AR-15, a rifle similar to the U.S. Army’s M-16.
The encounter was so close, Cadzow said, he didn’t have time to lift and sight the rifle.
“I shot from the hip, seven or eight times,†he said. “If I had gotten it to my shoulder, it (bear) would have been on top of me. It happened so quick, by the time it was down, it was about 10 feet from my feet.â€
According to the hunters, the young female bear appeared to be in good health and wasn’t starving.
The hunters contacted the Department of Fish and Game in Fairbanks on Thursday and are delivering the hide and head today so biologists can have a closer look at the bear. It will be sent to the Marine Mammal division of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for further study.
After perusing some photographs Thursday evening, Dick Shideler, a Fish and Game wildlife biologist who studies North Slope grizzly bears, is in cautious agreement.
“I’m not 100 percent sure, but it sure looks like a polar bear. The ear set looks right, so does the head profile, and the feet look pretty big which is pretty typical (of polar bears),†Shideler said.
“It’s definitely not a grizzly. The only other possibility is a hybrid. I’m leaning pretty far towards polar bear,†he said. “It’s a super interesting bear no matter what it turns out to be.â€
The Fort Yukon hunters and the village of more than 900 people are still in a state of disbelief that a polar bear wandered so far south.
“I think all 900 people have been by my house today,†said Cadzow, who spent the rest of Thursday skinning the bear hide.
Townspeople in the Yukon River village have been fielding calls from friends and relatives around the state since word about the polar bear has spread.
“It’s quite a shock to our town,†wrote Bonnie Thomas in an e-mail. “Our oldest elder, Rosalie Joseph, 102, passed away. She must have some powerful medicine to bring a polar bear to us.â€


Guys good bullets is the key and IMHO 30-06 and up is adequate. I have taken an Artic Grizz in self defense with one shot from a 475 Linebaugh revolver...

I just got two boxes of 280gr A-frames from 24hourcampfire.. Thinken if I can get them to shoot out of my 358 STA that it will be my big bear gun..

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
FYI! It took 5 shots from a 45-70 to dispatch 3 toes, the last known Grizzily killed in Colorado. roger

Bartsche,

Exactly how long ago was that?IF MEMORY SERVES< IT WAS IN THE 1930s

the reason I ask is that there is a world of difference between a factory loaded 45-70 as produced 20-30 years ago (or far, far longer)
and a modern HANDLOADED 45-70...ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

you don't qualify your statement about "three toes".THREE TOES WAS A CATTLE KILLING BEAR THAT HAD PART OF A FOOT SHOT AWAY> STORY GOES THA THIS MAY HAVE CAUSED HIM TO PREY ON CATTLE AND SHEEP. HE WAS SHOT ON GRAND MESA BY A TRAPPER I THINK.

AD[/QUOTE]

roger

My ruger MKII stainless in 416 taylor and leupold 1.75 x6

I am going May 8 and will be taking my Montana 1999, Echols-McMillan .375 Weatherby with 2 Leu 1.75-6. Mild loads 270 TSX @ 2730.

I got a buddy that swears by the 375 and the Barnes original 350 grain softpoint. He carried a Mauser actioned rifle with a Leupold 1X5 and it served him very well for many years.

Well once again another wide spread opinion topic .

I called a friend who used to survey ( 20 Years ) in Alaska , now Surveys and resides in Kalispell MT. for his opinion .

He is a life long friend grew up and served in Nam together . Hunted in 7 states with him , best shot off hand I know , Lightening reflexes when it comes to firearms or self defense .

Loves B P shooting and rendezvous , his wife is a better shot than both of us !!!!.

Knowing he had shot more than a few Bears while working up there . I asked him .

He carried a 06 with 220 grain partitions and used that every single time . He then pointed out to me their not armor plated and not generally vicious but more cautious and solitaire .

Surprising one puts the unsuspecting fool at a distinct disadvantage !. He also pointed out he played the fool on more than one occasion !.

In ending our discussion on this subject he also pointed out that 06 was his hunting gun as I should very well remember . I did . Ken I know you remember what magazine wells are for !.

He was implying if at first one doesn't succeed re chamber and go again .

A pre 64 M 70 Winchester 30/06 Super grade . I remember it well , I gave it to him over 40 years ago .

So from somebody who did it more than a couple of times . Draw your own conclusions .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Several Points:

Rebuttal: Phobia by definition in Funk & Wagnalls is: a morbid, compulsive, and persistent fear of any specified type of object, stimulus, or situation. Any strong aversion or dislike. I'd speak for Phil here and state the he has, in fact, a strong aversion to or dislike for...being mauled/killed/eaten by a bear. He carries the ugliest snub-nosed 458WM you ever saw.

JWP475: it's Hosea Farber, and he disappeared while out hunting one fall with his 270 he was so proud of. Probably one of those illiterate Alaskan bears that didn't read Jack O'Connor's scribblings.

I maintain that there are two types of DG rifles: ones you can kill big game with if all goes according to plan, and the ones that people take into the alder thickets. Those are called stopping rifles. For many years Eskimos (generic term) killed everything with M70's in 22 Hornet, including bears. A lot of them ended up as dinner, too. I believe Robert Ruark said "Use Enough Gun".

In closing may I say that people who carry anything under a 35 Whelen or 9,3x62 bear hunting should also cancel their home owners and auto insurance policies...they obviously believe that nothing bad will ever happen to them.

TTFN,

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

If I was going, I would take my M70 in 404jeffery, VXIII 1.5x5. Your shots should be pretty close, under 200yds. A M70 in .375h&h or 416rem/Rigby would also be first rate.
You can hunt a 1000# brown w/ your 06 if you like, but for me, a big bear rifle would start w/ the 338winmag & go up. If you can shoot a big bore, there is no downside to using one.

I've been watchin' this thread for a while.

I must admit that big bear scare me some. I've always been told that the .338 WM is kinda minimum and I'll admit to having slept with a loaded one while elk hunting in Wyoming.

I like the idea of a heavier gun for hunting the bigger bear, but the .375 H&H I have is an M70 SS Classic and it has a pretty hefty bbl that sits really well on sticks but isn't my idea of a quick reaction rifle. My CZ 550 Safari Mag in .416 Rigby is just to damn heavy to hike around a lot of dense woods, and I'm not sure I truly believe a bear takes the kind of killing required by a Cape Buffalo.

Decided to build a rifle in .416 Aagaard to see what would happen with it. The .416 Aagaard is a .376 Steyr case that has been opened up to .416 and improved. Has a case capacity of 84 gr of water. Loaded cartridge length can vary from 3.100 to 3.200".

Quickload and Z-Hat indicate that 2300 fps can be obtained with a 350 gr bullet in a 22" bbl. (I've used the 350 gr X bullet on Cape Buffalo and Bison. They have all the penetration anyone could ask for.) Should certainly be comparable to the original .404 Jeffery load.

The rifle is built on a commercial FN action with a 22" #4 contour Douglas barrel. In a Fajen's synthetic stock it weighs 9 pounds when fitted with a 1.5-5x Leupold IR scope on Leupold QRW rings with steel bases. Weight and handiness seem about right. Mounts quickly and is easy to carry.

Working out the bedding and so forth thus far. Recoil is not bad. Certainly no worse than an 11 pound Rigby pushing the same bullet to 2700 fps.

I'm thinking this fella just might work. Will know more when I hit some piggies, deer and a black bear with it.

Thoughts?

Mike,

I understand the HUGE difference between "want" and "need"......... BUT

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:

....I like the idea of a heavier gun for hunting the bigger bear, but the .375 H&H I have is an M70 SS Classic......

Decided to build a rifle in .416 Aagaard to see what would happen with it......Quickload and Z-Hat indicate that 2300 fps can be obtained with a 350 gr bullet in a 22" bbl.... Thoughts?

Seems like a lot of trouble and $$$ when compared to cutting 2" off the M70 and loading some 350 gr Woodlieghs

But I'm sure you are having lots of FUN

Good on you!

Whackin' 2" of the Winchester barrel off would not correct the nose-heaviness of the rifle nor would it get the additional cross sectional area of the larger diameter bullet.

.416s just do better at energy transfer to the target.

Besides ... it would be too easy and screw up my backup rifle for Africa. It usually goes with the Rigby.

I dont see that you need anything else than your 358 STA, but a 375 Sako is a great idea. Zeiss, Swarowski or Schmidt & Bender before Leopold.