Valid points that a custom 338F might be designed in a 'light weight' or mountain type set up, but after owning a 23" 338-06 that miked .730 at muzzle, gun w/syn stock was 8lbs even, I'd build another if I did......at about 7.5lbs. .675-.70 max muzzle. I would NOT change the contour if doing a 338Fed. What I would do is 22-23 in any 338-06 or Win Mag, and 20-21 would be my ideal in a 338F, but I DO prefer a stiff tube and enough gun weight for steady holding, but again all things equal the Fed will kick less.

On the 358 comment, IF I owned a good shooting 358, I would not trade or sell it to get a 338F, but there have been no 358 bolts available in factory form lately, Ruger is coming.

What I DO expect to get from a 338F is 'slightly less recoil' with same SD bullet vs 358. I don't expect it to kill any better, but I DO expect it to kill VERY well, about as well on deer and hogs as the 358. Nothing wrong with 358.

When choosing an airgun, I picked an R9 beeman .20 cal. I shoot the same pellet weight-14.3 gr Crosman Premiers, as .22, but have a flatter trajectory, greater penetration, and much more stopping power than .177. I also shoot 41 mag pistol for same reason, tolerable recoil.

I see the 338F as a balanced mid size cartridge for large non-dangerous north american game up to 300 yds. Did we NEED another cartridge? Not since the '06, 6.5x55, and 7x57 was invented!

Perhaps not alot of potential users on the forum here at AR, but I think the average Joe that buys/uses them will be pleased with the results. Will it 'kill the 358?' Doubt it, those interested will continue, those that don't know and understand it, won't bother trying it, if more guns/ammo are not introduced and I doubt much will change.

I'm in the process of having a 338 federal built as we speek. The reason I'm doing this is that I'm left handed and wanted a little more punch then the 308 win. but keep the same rifle.

I'm using a Rem 700VS LH in 308 win. I'm keeping the varmint contour and also the 26" barrel. It will be stainless with a teflon coating. I don't mind carrying heavy rifles and I shoot them better. Having the longer tube, I'm also hoping to up the velocity a little as well. I elected to go with Lilja for the barrel. This cartridge does show great promise for 300 yds and under for moose/bear hunters. As one writer put it, it's like shooting the 30-06 but with 20% more frontal area in a short action.

I have about 1000 Norma match 308 cases to neck up so life expectancy is not an issue. Same powder, same primers and same cases. I can't go wrong!

My only question is that with all this talk about terminal performance, nobody has mentioned "inherent" accuracy. Does anyone know how accurate this round should/could be?

Mike

Has Kimber bought out the 338Federal yet?

Found this.
http://www.nrafoundation.org/friends/f0721131.asp

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976825054.aspx

I agree with Beretta's posts, as to accuracy, Kimber, the man who did the test firing said that 'INITIAL' factory ammo failed to impress. Federal since informed him that the problem was fixed.......but the Kimber employee since just necked up 308 Lapua and had very good accuracy, could not remember bullet/loads, .....or perhaps did not want to go their, but it seems he mentioned groups well under 1/2 moa.

Remind you, a Kimber is a very light gun and one of the biggest factors in accuracy is many shooters cannot 'shoot them with finesse' to get potential accuracy.

They are not 'bench guns' and thin barrels are hot after 2-3 rounds, but if your first and if needed second shot are reliably consistent, given the trigger pull and the ranges likely used (light guns will make it much harder to hit far targets vs heavy ones as we know), this combo, a montana 338F would make a very practical and usable deer-moose gun.

Interestingly, the man that test fires, prefers the 308, loves the accuracy, and knocked an elk down with a complete pass through with a 'premium' bullet at about 400 yds, double lunged broadside, I believe either a Barnes, or an Accubond, seems like the latter, and it was a 150gr.

It was all he needed. So, that throws a kink in the decision process now doesn't it. He said, it's either the 'Elmer Keith' philosophy, or the 'high tech bullets' to choose in a smaller round.....that is the decision. It is a valid point I do admit.

When you go to handgun forums, you see so many die hard large bore fans, that like .40 and larger bores, vs say 357 for deer and large game, and the field reports often bear out better results, quicker kills with larger heavier bullets. I think some of the same results are seen with rifles, but more variables at play.

Either way, I think the 338F deserves a place, a chance to prove itself, and I believe it will prove to be very effective in the field when used within it's capable range, 300 yds or less, which is where a lot of killing takes place.

Not to go into too much detail but with regard to the accuracy of the 338F, I just got mine back from IT&D Custom Guns and was able to get to the range this week. To say the least, I ws happy. Best group was with 47.0gr of IMR4895, Hornady 200gr SP (see pic). MV was 2547avg for the 3 shots. Rifle is a REM 600 with a 21" Douglas #2.



RH

Sounds like the right balance of length, and diameter for this bore, and it shoots!

Guns and Ammo Feb 07 issue has an article, and it did sub moa with all loads used according to Chub Eastman in a Kimber with 10x Leu

Whenever you see a cartridges pressures being rated in CUP you can bet it is old data. No one crushed copper anymore. Another note RL 15 gives the Whelen it's highest velocities with 250 grain bullets, 2600 fps being likely. In my opinion the best sell for the 35 calibers is the large number of good standard bullets designed and proven over many years to perform perfectly on game large and small. I can make up loads using the 180-200 grain round noses and flat noses pushing 2400 fps and have perfect performance on game up to 400 pounds out past 200 yards. Most deer and hogs are shot under 250 yards, actually less than 200. With the 250 grain Speer in a 358 Win. then I easily have a round capable of taking elk or moose cleanly out to 250 yards also. Once again most of these are taken at less than 200 yards. If I know that I am going to have a shot that may be over 300 yards none of the standard cased 33's or 35's will be my main gun. The farthes shot I have made on an elk was 450 yards with a 338 Win. mag. and the 250 grain Sierra failed to expand making for the longest, toughest, recovery of any animal I have taken. A few others taken at ranges near 350 yards but all the rest were under 250 yards. What I am getting at is there are limiting factors other than the caliber of your rifle that come into play. We often fool around looking for that rifle that will be perfect for that 1 percent of our shooting and it turns out to be less than great at the other 99 percent.

Btw, read where Nosler now has a 338 Accubond, so IF OAL is ok and it should be in a Tikka, Sako, and Ruger, then a 200gr at 2600 should do even on elk/moose/bear, if its a bonded bullet, but perhaps a 185 x at 2750 is as good or better, pick your poison.

No flys on a 358, just like more factory rifle choices in the 338 Federal.

Also, the 338Fed and the new 30TC are suited well for pistol length barrels ie. Encore.

Alberta Tactical Rifle e-mailed me and told me my Lilja barrel and reamer is in and wold like my rifle. Now to find a box to ship it. I can't wait after seeing those groups! Won't be long now I hope.

Himmelrr,

You mentioned 2547 fps with a 21" barrel and 200gr bullet, would a safe assumption be that I could add 200 fps since I'm going with a 26" barrel?

I hope so, then I'd be even more impressed with this project.

Given the good expansion ratio of this round, I'd venture 60-100fps gain with 5" barrel added.

Certainly not expect 2700, if you need that much more speed, I'd just go 338-06 or Win Mag. You could just build a '06 version and use a 23" and get 2900 plus like I did with 200 gr, this gives you 400 yd plus capability

Just need to ask yourself do you need over 300 yd capability. If not, a shorter barrel will be handier, often more accurate, and plenty to burn the powder in this round, 21-22 would be tops for me. Perhaps you stand hunt a lot, a 24" med heavy, perhaps a heavy varmint contour but fluted would be suitable. Certainly if you hunted out of blind/stands with windows, or similar, getting a 26" out of the windows is much more trouble than shorter tubes, which is one reason I like shorter barrels.

I just saw a recent article on handloading of this cartridge.. while thumbing thru magazines at Walmart, waiting for Mrs. Seafire to finish her 'woman shopping'.....

Of the powders tested, just like I suspected, with a 200 grain bullet ( Hornady and Nosler BT) the best load for both accuracy and velocity was a charge using RL 10.... H 322 is also a great performer according to the data...
Benchmark also was scored very high....sorry that I can't remember the publication...for it has been in the last 30 days or so...

I myself see this as a shorter barrel round, like with the max length of 22 inches... If I contemplated building one, I would go with a heavier contour but in a 20 or 22 inch barrel...on a short action... a Ruger 77 MK 2, Stainless would be my first pick of actions..

If I needed the longer barrel, I'd go with a long action, I'd go with my 338/06 on a long action...mine is on a model 70 action with a 24 inch barrel...it will hit 2900 fps with a 200 grain bullet

Why did Federal choose to reinvent the 8x57?

It will sell some guns/ammo, 8x57 doubtfully would as a new round, and short seems to be a niche now. I have nothing against 8x57, but as a reloader, it's nice to have a round you can form from endless 308 supply of brass.

I've been thinking about barrel length, especially after reading these last few posts, and my smith helped convince me to make my barrel 24" instead. He doesn't figure I could load a heavy enough bullet and use slow enough powder to warrant the extra 2 inches especially in a 308 case.

I agree, if you were doing a 338 mag it would be different, let's for giggles take....

.308x26= 8.008

now divide by .338= 23.69

SO, it may not be the exact number, but it seems logical to me looking at expansion ratio, that a 308 with 26" is no different than a 338 bore using 23.7" barrel. That is assuming similar burn rate powder, and actually you might use a faster powder as one tends to do as you increase bore size and keeping same capacity.

I'd say the 23.7" 338 Fed will burn as much or more powder, having similar or less blast, as a 308 in 26".....that said a 22" 338F would approximate a 24" 308 and MANY 308's have 24" barrels, and shorter. Food for thought. Balance/steadiness is the question more than IF you will burn the powder, 20-22 will get you 95-97+ percent efficiency if I placed a bet in a 338Fed.

Make sense? I think it does to me, but I am open to critique since I am no physicist. Let us know what you build and how it turns out, you should not be disappointed despite the small details.

FYI, I do seem to recall the Handloader article, Ken Waters used a 24" with BSA action, achieved good efficiency hitting just at or over 2600fps with 200gr with powders available then.

Mine is going to be:
Rem 600
Rock #3
10tw
22"
McM classic stock
should do well as a pig, bear and slightly bigger to 300 yrds

6.5BR

That explanation makes perfect sense, I have settled on the 24" barrel. I am keeping the varmint contour because I do like heavier guns and all things being equal should expect better accuracy.

If this rifle can shoot groups like himmrl's post, the moose this fall will be in trouble!
I think I'm going to go with the 180gr Accubonds, but I will try 200gr Hornady's also.

The reason I prefer the 180gr Accubonds is that they will be travelling the same speed as my 308 165gr Accubonds so I will still be familiar with their trajectory out to 300yards. I'm too paranoid to shoot at game any further than that so not having a high SD and BC in a bullet is no great loss to me.

FYI, there is now I believe a 200 gr Accubond, might retain more and penetrate better...food for thought, but the 185 tsx would do very well in penetration. That sounds like you will have a very accurate rifle, mild recoil, and you will steer your bullet where it needs to go!

You won't go hungry, let us know how it shoots, and how it brings home the bacon!

Has anyone looked at Hodgdons 338 federal loading data yet. It looks promising.

Just scroll down to 338 federal.
Hodgdons data

Thanks for the link, great info there. I can tell you this, a handgun hunter slinging say 225gr at 1200 is happy and it kills well....now DOUBLE that velocity and you have the 338Federal, which = 4x the energy. Nothing to sneeze at!

My brother wanted a Tikka 'big bore' and got one ordered in 308, but I think Tikka needs to add this ctg. to that rifle, as it would be very appropriate in a gun named 'big bore' more so than a 30cal, and works great in short tubes.
A Tikka 19" would be fine for me, but Ruger scout rifles MUST be god awful loud, and lose some fps. The standard Tikka, Sako, and Ruger I believe all have 22" tubes or right at it.

the reason i'm building a 338 federal is becasue of recent operations I cannot handle the recoil of the large magnums anymore and the 338F offers plenty of grunt to get the job done with great huting projectiles and a larger wound path with less recoil.

I also had a .338 barrel to make use of

later
P

Darn, I like them all until they give me a reason not to.