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With the availability of premium bullets, what if any advantage does one have with a 30/06 over a 308? Not sure what a 30/06 with a 150/165 tsx or partition can do that a 308 with the same can't. It seems that there is becoming less and less of a difference betweeen the cartridges as the bullet construction improves. | ||
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There isn't much difference if you are buying factory ammunition. I prefer the 06 for hunting and I reload for the best performance I can get from it. The 06 works better with the heavier bullets as well, which makes it more versatile IMO. | |||
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that's the thing!!!!!....for really big game hunting when one wants to throw the 200 grain bullets the old '06 shines! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Hello Powerguy, Some may not consider it an adavantage, but one can load and shoot well the heavier bullets in the '06 as in 220grain. Somewhat common in parts of Canada and Alaska of course. Heaviest bullets I have ever shot in the 308 were the Sierra MK's in 190 weight, but that is for long range match shooting, not hunting. From my personal experience would say the 308 has a slight edge on accuracy, but again, that is my experience and others may find it the other way. In short, other than the heaviest bullet aspect, I would see no advantage of the 06 over the 308. For Eastern Whitetail, the Sierra Game King, 165 works very well indeed. | |||
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Though 308win seems boring and dumpy, its a fantastic little cartridge. I would not hesitate to load 308win 150-165mrx and confidently get to doin what many folk have done with 30/06-180NP. Likewise, you can load 3o-o6 165tsx/mrx@2900 and confidently get to doin what many have done with 300mag/180cupcore@2960. Etc,etc,etc. Its all Good! Truth is, 308win with those monometals, will successfully do many things that many people do at the ranges they mostly do it at..Now thats alot of hunting. Personally,I dont have the need for much more performance a vast majority of the time. Conley catridge 308win. has 150-165tsx bullets moving...anyone who underestimates the game taking capablity of those load combos, is being foolish. | |||
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100-150 fps I'm sure that it will not make a bit of difference at the normal hunting distances that 99.9% of the hunters shoot at. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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I have to beg a slight difference here, and very slight one at that. The advantage is not so much found in either cartridge, but rather the package they are found within. Short light fast going to the .308 for the most part, and traditional long action attributes to the '06. A good way to explain this might be found in the form of a question: If the Ruger 1A was your rifle of choice which would you have it chambered in, .308 Win or .30-06 Gov't. Well just my opinions...   Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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Both are outstanding cartridges. If I were really picky, I would pick the 30-06 chambering for hunting due to ability to handle a slightly wider range of bullet weights better (versitility) and the 308 as a target/sniper/military MBR chambering due to it's edge in "inherent accuracy" (so it's claimed) and number of MBRs chambered for it. Oh.....excuse me I've already done that. BH1 There are no flies on 6.5s! | |||
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You mean fast going like the Rem. Mod 760 in 30-06 with a factory 18" barrel.Or perhaps one of my Mauser scouts with a light 19" barrel. IMHO the necessity of the .308 was Nil. Didn't even need it in the Savage Mod 99 as they already had the .300 Savage. It was an ill conceived military venture that marketeers glomed onto to perpetuate something warm and wonderful in the commercial field. Just a new toy to play with guys.It's here to stay but the 06 and 8X57 loaded to their potential beat it hands down.Anything it can do they can do better with Hand loaded ammo.  Why is it that folks are always trying to justify the existance of the .308 and its spawn? Why compare or contrast? just enjoy them if you got em.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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The 308 came about with the advent of the M14, they couldn't get full auto fire reliably at the specified rate of fire with the 63mm case. With the advent of ball powders, they were able to duplicate the balistics of the '06 case in a shorter round. And truly, nothing in the 308 lineage needs justification. John | |||
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Agree mostly with your train of thought... BUT, the argument could then be made 300 Savage vs 308, then 30-30 vs, 300 Savage, then... The 30-06 sits as King and for good reason. It's a wonderfully balanced cartridge with plenty of power for most NA game yet it can be housed in a relatively light and small package while remaining shootable by most folks. After all, as stated above, the 308's reason for existing was as an approximation of the 30-06 for military weapons. I like the 308 a lot having owned six of them... However, I LOVE the 30-06. My 30-06 moves 165's at 2,925 and 180's at 2,800 fps... that's a solid 150 fps more than the 308. On the other hand, it's probably absolutely true one cartridge could be substituted for the other and a hunter could never see the difference in the field over a lifetime of BG hunting. For a deer-only sized round in the Midwest and East I'd always rather have a 308 carbine. With elk on the menu I prefer the 30-06.  | |||
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Brad, spot on as usual my friend. I always seem to forget that I have killed more stuff with a 308 than probably anything else. That said, I'll probably never hunt with one again. The 06 family of cartridges have always been my favorite from a practical and mechanical standpoint. Their easy to load for, easy to find actions for, and IMO, there isn't another family of cartridges that feeds better from most any action. Especially the Model 70. Chuck | |||
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I really like both cartridges. The 30,06 has a slight advantage in power, but that advantage increases as bullet weight goes up. The .308 has the advantgae of less recoil. and often lighter rifles. For deer hunting, there is really no practicle difference betwwen the 2. And really you can throw about a dozen other cartridges from the 250 savage up to the .338 06. as long as you put your bullet where you want it, they all work great. But For Elk hunting I think I would prefer the 06. the .308 will kill elk fine but a 180 grain bullet from an 06 is moving 150 to 200 Fps faster and that adds up to a fair amount of energy and flattens things out a bit too. ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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If you're among those that love to hunt with the Savage 99, the Winchester 88, the Winchester 100 and other such firearms.....the .308 wins easily.....they were never made in 30-06! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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If your hunting then the 308 is great and my prefered calibre. If your shooting and need a little more range then the 30-06 my buy a little extra velocity. Mark Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible. | |||
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Just remember any "advantages" you give to the .308 due to the modern bullets and factory ammo offerings the same has to be given to the 30/06 shooting those same bullets. The difference between the two remains constant. The .308 has many uses and does well but it is not and never will be a 30/06! | |||
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Same advantage one has with a 300WM vs a 30-06 or a 300RUM vs a 300WM etc. The 30-06 is much better for hunting than the 308 in my expereince but, both are adequate for the job and both great rounds. Good Luck Reloader | |||
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I used to LOVE to HATE the .308. Then I actually got one....then two, then three.... The .30-06 is my hands down favortie cartridge yet I find myself grabbing my .308 very often. What was said about the package not the cartridge is very true. But I have .308's built on full length actions too. There is very little difference balistically speaking but the edge does got to the -06 especially when using the heaviest bullets. If I were forced to use only a .308 I doubt I'd lose a minute's sleep.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Thomas Jones said,
Quite true, but only if you are using handloads. In a recent test I did, comparing Winchester 180 gr. Silvertip ammo in both the .308 Win. and the 30-06, there was for all practical purposes NO DIFFERENCE in velocity. Now I'm sure someone will jump in and tell me I'm full of it, but rather than do that, do a test yourself and compare the results. From 22" barrels, the 30-06 was only 20 FPS faster than the .308 using the same weight bullets. I also ran the 06 ammo through 24" and 26" barrels and the only time the 06 came even close to advertised velocity was from the 26" barreled Ruger #1. Regarding the 06 being better with heavier bullets, I wonder? I'd like to find a box of 220 gr. loads in the 30-06. While it would not be cheating fair, i would compare it to my 220 gr. handload in the .308 Win. which does deliver an honest 2300 FPS from a 22" barrel. I'd like to see if the 30-06 with the same bullet even comes close to the advertised 2400 FPS. My point being, the 30-06 woll outdo the .308, but only with handloads, not in factory ammo. I base this on personal testing, granted only using one bullet weight, but a popular weight in the .308 and 30-06. Several gun writers have also noted not getting much more that 2600 FPS from several brands of 30-06. For those interested in experiment, try 44.0 gr. of W-760 with the 220 gr. Sierra round nose. Start from two grains below and work up as it's a max load. My Winchester M70 push feed will put three of thse bullets into .375" Two more shots opens the group to .50". Doesn't sound two much like a weak load to me considering the 30-40 Krag with 220 gr. bullet at 2000 was considered a good elk round. I ask no one to take my word on this. Just do the tests and decide for yourself. My conclusions are this; in factory ammo, they're the same. With proper handloads, the 30-06 will beat the .308. And yes, the .308 will handle the heavier bullets, at least in my rifle. YMMV. Paul B. | |||
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Take two identical 180-grain bullets and load them to their maximum MV in both calibers. Next, shoot identical bull elk in the exact same spot with the two calibers. Then perform an autopsy of each dead elk, in which you give a detailed examination to the wounds made by the two bullets. I guarantee you will NOT be able to tell which caliber made which wound based on the examination of the wound alone! This controversy makes even less sense than the .270 vs .30/'06 debate which has been going on since 1926.......... "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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I find a lot of beleivabilty in what you say. Now lets take identical 220 gr. hand loadeds in 06 and .308.both are loaded to the same max. pressure level only today the game is grizz. Which one would you choose ElD if those were the only 2 choices? No  now. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Roger- Guess I am on your team again. At the moment I have at least eight .308's in the vault. There are also at least six 30-'06's in there too. When I was young, I did a LOT of big game hunting in the Canadian north. Funny thing is, I have NEVER been hunting with a .308 rifle, for anything. Used to take one of my '06s when I wasn't sure I needed a magnum...just felt more comfortable with either 200-gr. Noslers or 250 gr. Barnes bullets up the spout and in the magazine when poking around in the dense brush up in the the Swan Hills area or farther north. In those days northern Alberta was lousy with bears, mostly blacks but certainly not all. And I didn't care to meet even a blackie at 8 or 10 feet in the willows around some pot-hole lake where I was looking for moose, armed with a .308. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I like the 30/06 best of all | |||
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Nice to see you back, AC.  roger  Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Ditto on Vapodog . When exceeding 180 grain projectiles 06 stands up !. 180 and under both are near equal !. I own both , I use both so it's not just an opinion !. Shoot straight know your target . ...  | |||
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I've never gotten that thinking... the 30-06 runs a strong 150+ fps with ALL bullet weights over the 308. I've handloaded for five 30-06's and six 308's so my opinion isn't pulled out of thin air. | |||
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I decided to build a one and onluy North American rfile. I was .308 win and scoped and loaded eith 4 rounds it weoghs 6 5/8 lbs. I am realistic about how far I shoot. In the field I do not shoot over 250 yds. Given my parameters, the 308 with 180 grns does everything I need. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, there's no holes in your reasoning and choice IMO. | |||
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With 200 grain bullets the difference is about 250'/sec difference.....from 2430 to about 2700. When converted to energy this is almost a 24% advantage for the 30-06 over the .308. At 100-150 yards this don't mean much.....but when the shots run longer it is important to many shooters. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I've "heard" all about 22" bbl'd 30-06's that will do 2,700 with a 200 grainer... never seen one myself, nor have my friends. 2,600 or a smidge more is the more realistic velocity for that weight IME. | |||
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06 genarally feed better...  On the other hand, you need a longer action...  | |||
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Bartsche said, "Now lets take identical 220 gr. hand loadeds in 06 and .308.both are loaded to the same max. pressure level only today the game is grizz. Which one would you choose ElD if those were the only 2 choices? No now."Under those conditions, I would have to agree with you. However, as there is no factory 220 gr. load made for the .308, I had to compare a .308 handload vs advertised 30-06 factory data for a 220 gr. bullet. as I have not been able to locate a box of factory Winchester 220 gr. 30-06 ammo to test my theory, my comment that they may be a lot closer in velocity that the ads state, based on my test comparing 180 gr. loads in both cartridges.The point being, at least with 180 gr. bullets, the 30-06 is no better than the .308 using factory ammunition. I'll never argue against the fact that the 30-06 is not loaded to it's full potential by the factories and it's no great deal to surpass factory velocities by a sunstantial margin. hell, I've been doing that for years. Paul B. | |||
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Here is a look from a slightly different perspective involving the killing of moose in Sweden: 308..Number of moose killed 943. Shots fired per moose on average 1.7. Distance traveled from first shot until the moose was down on average..38 meters. 3006..Number of moose killed 1,938..Shots fired per moose on average 1.5. Distance traveled from first shot until the moose was down on average 43 meters. 6.5 x 55..Number of moose killed 1,717. Shots fired per moose on average 1.5. Distance traveled from first shot until the moose was down on average 41 meters. 300 WM..Number of moose killed 25. Shots fired per moose on average 1.9. Distance traveled per moose on average from first shot until the moose was down 24 meters. This data doesn't take bullet weight into consideration but there was little if any difference between the 308 and 3006 in their moose killing abilities on Swedish moose. The minimum bullet diameter and bullet weight for hunting moose in Sweden is a 6.5 bullet weighing 140 grains, so we know the .30 caliber shooters were probably using bullets at least that heavy, and probably heavier. And yet the 6.5 x 55 held its own with the 308 and 3006, equaling the 3006 in the number of shots required to down its moose and falling right in between both of them in the number of meters the moose traveled after they were hit. So I don't know that bullet weight is all that it is cracked up to be in this case either...Rusty. | |||
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Rusty, you are completely correct. Only, the survey doesnt say how many injured or lost moose there were... I guess nobody will know. I will not argue with anyone, the 6,5 can kill any animal with adequate shotplacement. However we cant overlook the laws of physics either;that is, larger diameter, heavier bullets and so on will kill better, or at least as good, IF THE BULLET IS PUT IN THE SAME PLACE. With a bad hit, "the bigger, the better", applies. | |||
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Rusty- Does the survey state at which average distances the animals were shot? Anyway, if I was poking around in the northern bush for moose, but stood a fair chance of meeting old Griz nose-to-nose instead, I'd a heck of a lot rather have something bigger than either a .308 OR a 6.5x55. And I'd be willing to handload the '06 to gain whatever of that extra insurance it could provide, if need be. (These days, I'd probably just carry the 9.3 WSM or a fellow forum member's .416 WSM instead of any of the above.) | |||
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[QUOTE] "...Now lets take identical 220 gr. hand loadeds in 06 and .308.both are loaded to the same max. pressure level only today the game is grizz. Which one would you choose..."[QUOTE] I see no great need to load 220gn bullets in any .30cal these days. A 180tsx/mrx will do anything you care to do with 220gnRN upclose or far but with better downrange numbers. Now if these newer bullets didnt exist, yes most would prefer the o6'220,but the fact is, they do exist. Case in point, 160gnGscHV.300mag combo is a fantastic longe range thumper and proven capable of taking close in frontal brain shot on elephant. Similarly, monometals in 308win/3oo6 give them greater versatility, without the need to hold it back/weigh it down, with old technology 220gncupcores.But if one likes hunting with those old world dogs logs, then yeh, go bigger case. Really, If I can afford to hunt, I dont mind paying for a bullet that offers better over all intelligent versatility. I would not be in a hurry to encourage someone to sell their favourite 308win, without first trying modern bullets. | |||
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AGREED.....in all sincerity a 200 (yes even a 180) that is of a bonded construction is all one needs in any .30 caliber......and this of course favors the .308 as it reduces the advantage of the larger case. This is true across the board too....comparing the .280 to the 7MM mags etc! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Something I've always' thought was funny is a lot of people will tell you there is no difference in a .308 vs .30-06 , 7-08 vs .280Rem etc. But these same people will claim a 300FPS by running an AI reamer in the chamber  Anybody's ear's getting warm Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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....and MORE!!!!! Excellent point.... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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O.K., let's stipulate 180 gr. TSX in both cartridges, both handloaded to max or just below, whichever makes you more comfortable.... Now, you are in the willow bush looking for moose, and you run into old sow griz and a couple of cubs near a stream running into a beaver pond. Which would you rather have in YOUR hands, the .308 or an '06, if you could only have one or the other? My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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