Do I need one? I have a line on a USRA Winchester Ultimate Classic. I love the rifle itself, but never had warm feelings for the Whelen. If the rifle was a 338 you would be seeing it.

The 250 grain loads seem to be going by the wayside. I would have loved the cartridge with 270 grain bullets at 2400-2500 fps.

What say the congregation? I know deer hunting it does not mater 225 grain bullets rule. I agree no elk is going to catch a quality 225 grain bullet. We all have our issues.

Well, the 35 Whelen has a large following of supporters but then that can be said of a lot of calibers. If you are after performance using a 270 G. bullet at the M.V. you wanted then go with a .375 H+H. You would get it + also have a larger variety of uses. Obviously I'm a 375 fan.

You are right NormanConquest. I have 3, 375s.

I have always been of the mind the 35 Whelen needed more bullet weight to be what it should be the American 375 HH class. The light bullet option should have been the 250 grain load partnerd with a 270-275 grain load.

Somehow, probably bc of Elmer Keith, that honor fell to the 338 Bore. 338 for me is for 250 grain bullets.

Man, the rifle is so nice. The only “problem” it is not a 338WM, or even a 338/06.

A good point for he Whelen is it holds one more down than the 338 WM. It would have been awesome on those Bulgarian stags I was chasing. No, that is not a vote against my 7mm STW. Just trying to think what would be picture perfect for the Whelen.

I think the 35 Whelen is an interesting cartridge. I just can't convince myself to buy one because the 338 Win Mag and 30-06 work so well for me.

Some folks will argue there isn't a very big selection of 35 caliber bullets to choose from as compared to either the 338 or 30 calibers. I wouldn't disagree with that sentiment. However, from a practical standpoint, you really only "need" one bullet weight in the 35 Whelen anyway. If the 225 or 250 grain bullets don't give you what you need. Then you might as well choose another caliber. I use 225 grain TTSXs out of my 338s and 168 grain TTSXs out of my 30-06s. I don't really "need" any other bullet weights for either of those calibers either.

Here's an article about the Whelen and a little about Elmer's use of it too.
https://www.gunsandammo.com/ed...-whelen-story/248446

Right now, I feel convinced that all I need is a 257 Bob or a 25-06 and a 35 Whelen in NA and a 400 Whelen if I want Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Do I need one? I have a line on a USRA Winchester Ultimate Classic. I love the rifle itself, but never had warm feelings for the Whelen. If the rifle was a 338 you would be seeing it.

The 250 grain loads seem to be going by the wayside. I would have loved the cartridge with 270 grain bullets at 2400-2500 fps.

What say the congregation? I know deer hunting it does not mater 225 grain bullets rule. I agree no elk is going to catch a quality 225 grain bullet. We all have our issues.

You should easily be able to get those velocities with a 270-280 grain bullet. The latest Speer data is showing velocities at or near 2700 fps with 250 grain bullets.

That being said, I am a big fan of the Whelen, and I have 2 Ackley versions, my latest built on a Model 70 Featherweight.

I vote for "buy".

Take a look at the Sierra data for 225 grain bullets anent 35 whelen and 338wm. They are showing 2900 in the whelen.
Cfe223 and power pro 2000

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

Do I need one? I have a line on a USRA Winchester Ultimate Classic. I love the rifle itself, but never had warm feelings for the Whelen. If the rifle was a 338 you would be seeing it.

My experience has been if you don't like or warm to a calibre (or rifle) then no matter how logical the choice is, unhappiness will arrive in time.

If you are talking shooting big animals then you shoot so few that 338, 35 Whelen and the 375 would be the same, just the luck of the draw. You only have to look at the AR African forum and buffalo. One bloke shoots a buffalo with a 375 and the animal go 10 steps then another bloke almost wears the barrel out on his 458 Lott or 500 A Square getting an animal down. Of course shoot a lot of buffalo then a 500 A Square or 458 Lott will show up over a 375.

My problem with the 35 Whelen is simply one of mathematicians and outdated thinking.

I like the idea of a heavy 35 caliber magnum such as the 358 GH, 358 STW, and 358 Norma Magnum. I think one of the reasons the 35 has not been a success is bc it is twisted by the 338 in one side being more balanced and the 375 on the other. The 30-27 calibers being “better” deer cartidges.

The above cases are what the 35 should have been the equal to and answer to 375 HH.

The 35 Whelen just does not make the grade. But I think when Remington brought it to the masses they were looking at the deer market hence the 225, and 250 grain loads. 35 Whelen loads have only gotten lighter.

There are not a lot of heavy constructed 250 grain bullets out there even for reloading. If I buy the rifle and hunt with it, then it will only see 250 grain bullets. The game will range from elk size and down.

I would not take even a heavy Whelen buffalo hunting. Mostly, because I have other rifles for that.

I am leaning toward buying the rifle. I think I am going to let the owner cool. If he still wants to move it before Christmas see what we can do. If I do not buy it, I will let all here know.

The rifle itself is perfect. The Winchester and Whelen go way back.

Does anybody just love the Whelen?

Mr. McGurie: I will remember that advice if I ever have a child that gets to marrying age. Sound advice is universal. This rifle is like the perfect 10 you could bring home, but with one personality flaw for me.

In sort, I think I will bring her home. She will be good to look at and use. I can lock her up when I feel miffed at her dimensions.

I do not need the Whelen. I have Rifles up and down that cover anything the Whelen thought to do. I should have asked should I own one.

I have bought shotguns for the gun and not the chamber and enjoyed them. I will let you guys know.

If anyone has any good Whelen stories, please share.

Hmm, can't say I love the Whelen but I do like it enough to have three currently and am tempted to rebarrel an old .30-06 I have as another.

I understand the temptation a "good looking" rifle presents. There's a NIB Model 70 featherweight in the LGS that has been reduced to a ridiculously low price. I keep wanting to take it home with me but it is chambered in .223 WSSM. Problem is, can't for the life of me think what it would do for me. Maybe if it had a fast twist. I thought it might be fun to get and maybe even rebore it, but the barrel is so thin, I'm not sure anyone would rebore it. If it were a 6.5 WSSM, I'd have a use for it.

The 35 Whelen doesn’t make the grade? It’s essentially a 350 Rigby in a 30 06 case. 225gr at a very modest 2625 has killed an awful lot of African game. Is it a long range, turret-twisting hammer? No. But then neither was the 338 until the long range game became popular. Refuse to shoot past 200-250 and a lot of these cartridges start to look alike...

The grade compared to the cases listed. I am not very gooy about the 35 Rigby. At least not with the traditional 225 grain load for the same reason I am not gooy about the Whelen.

Like I said we all have our issues.

If I buy it it will be feed nothing but 250 grain partitions. If I decide to take it up to red stag I may look at the 270 WeldCore.

Baxter said it well. The 350 Rigby Magnum which was factory loaded with 225 gr. bullets was not only extremely popular in Africa, but was considered to be comparable in effectivness to the 375 H&H by many famous African hunters and PH's, including Taylor. The Rigby was loaded to fairly modest velocity that can be duplicated with modern powders in the Whelen. With all the great bullets now made, it is hard to argue that heavier bullets are really necessary to make the Whelen effective for American or African hunting. I have a Whelen and a Rigby, but like you, I just have never warmed up to the 35 caliber and have no valid reason why, other than if I needed a 35, I would instead, use one of my favorite 375's.
Like others said, if you have reservations about the Whelen, they probably won't go away. Good Luck with your decision!

The reason the Remington 35 Whelen didn't sell initially is (1) the cartridge had been around so long that everyone who wanted one already had one and (2) new shooters who might be interested never heard of Townsend Whelen. Add to that the fact that it doesn't have a belt and the magic word "Magnum" attached to it, and it's the kiss of death.

When you compare how efficient the cartridge is to a 30-06 and the 7mm-08 with bullets of a similar sectional density, it becomes a no brainer in my opinion. When 30-06 165 grain loads (SD of .248) and 7mm-08 140 grain loads (also SD of .248) have a muzzle velocity of 2800 FPS, and 35 whelen 225 grain loads (SD of .251) have a muzzle velocity of 2750 FPS, why would you not own a Whelen?

I love the Whelen yes I do. For North American anything, African too. Just don't have any African stories to tell about it. History tells us that a 250, 275 or 300 solid at 24000-2500 is plenty for solid use and a 250 - 275 soft is as well for soft use. 250 Barnes TSX probably works for both.

Mike drop...

quote:

Originally posted by Tex84:
When you compare how efficient the cartridge is to a 30-06 and the 7mm-08 with bullets of a similar sectional density, it becomes a no brainer in my opinion. When 30-06 165 grain loads (SD of .248) and 7mm-08 140 grain loads (also SD of .248) have a muzzle velocity of 2800 FPS, and 35 whelen 225 grain loads (SD of .251) have a muzzle velocity of 2750 FPS, why would you not own a Whelen?

Strong evidence.

I always thought the worst thing about the Whelen was the Remington twist rate. Those heavy bullets need a faster twist. preferably under 1 in 12.

That’s not the Whelen; that’s Remington. Ruger 1/12 and most everything else Whelen is 1/14. I shoot 290 cast in 1/14 at 1750 FPS just fine.

Does anybody know what twist rate USRA used?

Do you need one? Absolutely. It's a 35 after all!

The 35 Whelen is my all time favorite cartridge.

I have taken a number of elk, one Shiras Moose, Leopard, and a number of African PG with it. I have used the 250 gr. Nos. Part. exclusively, except for the Moose, which was a 280 gr. SAF.

Just a superb medium bore. Not too much power, and not too little. Easy on the recoil. Easily good to 300 yards, and has the power for 400 if one is a good enough marksman. I have only used it for 300 yds and less so far.

I own many 338 WMs and many 35 Whelens. So could you.

Go for it!

I talked to Swift about their 280 grain bullet and they said at least a 1 in 12 IIRC and 1 in 10 would be better.

Thank you Boom Stick.

I do not won’t to make it into a 358 STA. I just think it should have been designed around 270grain load to start with.

I see absolutely no point in the 180, 200,and even 225 grain loads that have become popular.

A 270 grain load at 2400 would have been perfect. I can live with a 250 grain portion at 2500. I have a feeling that load is not long for this world at least in loaded ammo.

All of my 35 Whelen Hawkeye rifles are 1-12, as are my No. 1-S and Dakota Classic Deluxe. They stabilize the 280s fine. I had a Rem. 700 with the 1-16 that would not at 200 yds. with the ammo I was using. Sold it.

1-12 is your friend in a Whelen. Don't know about 1-10. Never had/shot one. But how could it hurt if you like heavy-for-caliber bullets?

Does anybody know the twist rate for the USFA 35 Whelen? guess it is 1:12 bc the 358 Win is 1:12, but neither I nor the speller knows

Classic round. No complaints with how my 35 Whelen (Remington 7400 autoloader 22" 1:16 twist barrel) performs on Elk and Moose using Swift A-Frame or TSX bullets.

Winchester site doesn't list model 70 current, exclusive or past products in 35 Whelen (?).

http://www.winchesterguns.com/...rifles/model-70.html

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I talked to Swift about their 280 grain bullet and they said at least a 1 in 12 IIRC and 1 in 10 would be better.

Boomie,

Thanks for passing along that info from Swift.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
The 350 Rigby Magnum which was factory loaded with 225 gr. bullets was not only extremely popular in Africa...

That’s true, but you know what was?
The 318 Westley Richards!
And the 35 Whelen is pretty darn close to that legendary cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
The 350 Rigby Magnum which was factory loaded with 225 gr. bullets was not only extremely popular in Africa...

That’s true, but you know what was?
The 318 Westley Richards!
And the 35 Whelen is pretty darn close to that legendary cartridge.

I think you misread the quote. The 350 WAS extremely popular, in both bolt and double rifles. The 35 Whelen IS a 350 for all intents and purposes.

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
Classic round. No complaints with how my 35 Whelen (Remington 7400 autoloader 22" 1:16 twist barrel) performs on Elk and Moose using Swift A-Frame or TSX bullets.

Winchester site doesn't list model 70 current, exclusive or past products in 35 Whelen (?).

http://www.winchesterguns.com/...rifles/model-70.html

The Ultimate Classic came out of the USRA’s custom shop. They offered this rifle in 35 Whelen, 338/06, 7mm STW, 340 WBY, plus all the more common cartridges.

Look in the Blue Book. You will find it.

Right -

https://www.bluebookofgunvalue...TOM_ULTIMATE_CLASSIC

My guess is 1:14 twist.

Guys, I have agreed to buy the rifle. Here it is when it was listed on Guns International.

https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=100755207

Congratulations!
Function is one of the best forms of beauty. Looks like a rifle you could take anywhere and not worry about scratching your exhibition grade stock lol.
Color me jealous

I will find out Monday what the twist rate is. I can only hope.

Double Tap offers 250 and 310 grain load.

I bought one of the Rem 700s when they came out in 35 Whelen. Bought it new and just for the action. However, I gave it a try and bedded it an bought dies and brass and different bullets.

It was very accurate and over a very wide range of loads which I put down to the slow twist. I have had 358 STAs and all were 1 in 14 match grade barrels.

I only tested it at 100 yards but it shot all bullets very well including 250 grain spitzer/spire and also the 310 grain Woodleigh round nose.

As a side note, velocities with 200 and 250 grain and top loads were about the same velocity as 338 Winchester power point factory ammo. Yes, I know the 338 bullets were higher SD.

A 1in 16 twist in 358 is the same as 1 in 13.7 in 308. 308/358 X 16

I am not a 100% but I think 1 in 14 in a 308 will work with 168 grains. In Australia they have some target shooting called Full Bore and on military based ranges and the 7.62 ammo is 144 grain boat tail and I am almost sure they use 1 in 14 barrels.

Woodleigh specifies 1:14 twist minimum for their 358 caliber 310gr bullets. My Remington 700 (sold it) would do about 3.5" groups at 100 yards with 310's. My 7400 groups worse with 310's. Muzzle speeds around 2200 fps. Both have 1:16 twists.

We will know Monday about twist. I will use the 250 grain partition as the general bullet, but would love to load the 275 or 310 Weldcore for thicket hunting here at home. Shots are very close on my home place.

Hello LHeym500.

My absolute favorite all-around work-horse is my 35 Whelen. Unlike years ago, today 35 caliber offers great bullet selection from light weight pistol bullets for plinking and varmint - right up to 310g bullets for real serious stuff.

My rifle really likes Barnes 35 Whelen VOR-TX Ammunition with 200 Grain Barnes TTSX Polymer Tipped Spitzer Flat Base Lead-Free.

This factory ammo gives 2700 fps with 3275 ft/lbs ME. Groups under 1-1/2" at 200 yds. When sighted 3" high at 100 yds, it strikes 5" low at 300 yds and has retained energy of 1890 ft/lbs.

When I hand-load the same Barnes 200g bullet, I can get over 2900 fps giving 3740 ft/lbs ME. When this load is sighted 3" high at 100 yds, it strikes 4" low at 300 yds and has over a ton of retained energy at 2040 ft/lbs.

For real serious big stuff, I get 2300 fps with the 310g Woodleigh bullet.

If I was limited to only one caliber, it would be the 35 Whelen.

Here's my Custom RIA 1903 in 35 Whelen.