I have a 25" comericial mauser, and with a 150gr NBT all I can get out of it is 3162fps (5 shot avg).
Should I AI the chamber to gain a little more??

I wouldn't. Most don't feed as well as before and 100FPS at best. What's that gonna do for you?

Terry

I wouldn't if I was you.

I did and went from 2800 fps with the factory 22" bbl and handloads with 180 gr bullets to 2934 fps with the same slugs. I used a Rem 700 & Shilen bbl 23.5" for the AI round. Fed fine, case triming is just about a thing of the past. If you use the factory bbl, besure it is set back and then rechambered. I think its a great round..........

Why ruin a perfectly good 30-06 Mauser.
If you need a little extra velocity go to a 300 Winnie or Weatherby. 3100+ fps is nothing to sneeze about.

And in all seriousness, if you ever think about selling it a lot of people(but not all) get turned off by anything not factory loaded.

quote:

Most don't feed as well as before and 100FPS

I think that would be on the upside. For your velocity you are already in the 65,000+ range. An AI on an 06 will only give you about 4-5% capacity and if you assume you can use it all and stay safe. You will burn 4% more powder for 1% velocity. So 30-50FPS. Big velocity gains from an AI over factory is mostly due to pressure increases. You have already captured that.

Just look at the ballistics tables and find out how much bullet drop differences there is at say 400 yards with the extra 100 fps or so and you will quickly change your mind. Is gaining an inch or so worth the expense/trouble, probably not. If it was 300 fps then it may be worth it.

No.

quote:

Should I Ackleyize my 30-06?

Before you do that have a good look at the .30 Gibbs.....

The bottom line is the same however....if you really need more than the standard 30-06 can offer you really need to be looking to a 300 magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by leemar28:

....went from 2800 fps with the factory 22" bbl ...

...I used a Rem 700 & Shilen bbl 23.5" for the AI round.

So, you used a barrel that's an inch and a half longer than the factory tube, and most likely a smoother bore (Shilen vs factory), and gained 134 FPS.

How much was from the longer, better, barrel, and how much do you think was from the Ackley part?

If you really need more speed than you're getting (and most every loading manual I've got suggests you're getting a little more than your share) try Federal High Energy or Hornady Light Magnum ammo.

visual on the gibbs...

question is what do you need the velocity for???

if you cant kill it with an 06 you need a much bigger round. you might as well rebarrel and do the 376 steyer or the like. or find a good used 300 rum for about 450 bucks

If you look at published Gibbs data which will give you over twice the capacity gain of an AI from a 26" barrel max is 3261FPS most in the 3225 range. I would leave well enough alone. If you really need more than 3125 then you need a much bigger case.

The suggested .30 Gibbs is a much better option. The sharp AI shoulder many times have feeding problems.

Leave it alone and look for a nice, gentlty used 300 Win Mag.

Below you can see a QuickLoad comparison of 3006 AI vs. 3006 Standard for a 25" barrel. As you can see, when everything is held equal and each brought to 65,000 PSI, the AI will gain ~70 fps. Is it worth it? You decide. Regards, AIU

Cartridge : .30-06 Ack Imp
Bullet : .308, 180, NOS BalTip 30180
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.350 inch or 85.09 mm
Barrel Length : 25 inch or 630.1 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggestedloads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

100 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 111.9 67.9 4.40 3070 99.5 65000 13203 1.121
Alliant Reloder-25 119.0 69.5 4.50 3062 100.0 65000 12762 1.115
Vihtavuori N560 110.0 67.5 4.37 3051 97.1 65000 13359 1.121
Accurate MAGPRO 112.9 70.3 4.56 3039 95.6 65000 13451 1.125
Alliant Reloder-22 112.7 67.0 4.34 3034 98.7 65000 12910 1.125
Winchester WXR 111.5 67.3 4.36 3033 98.6 65000 12931 1.126
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 113.9 71.6 4.64 3027 97.6 65000 13169 1.116
PB Clermont PCL 517 114.3 71.7 4.64 3026 97.6 65000 13157 1.116
IMR 7828 SSC 110.4 66.6 4.32 3022 97.3 65000 12828 1.117
IMR 7828 114.6 66.6 4.32 3022 97.3 65000 12828 1.117
Hodgdon Retumbo 120.0 70.9 4.59 3013 100.0 60778 12848 1.147
Norma MRP 2 120.0 70.5 4.57 3009 97.5 60960 13390 1.153
ADI AR 2213 108.3 66.0 4.28 3005 97.2 65000 12688 1.118
Rottweil R905 112.9 66.3 4.30 3000 97.1 65000 12645 1.128


Cartridge : .30-06 Spring.
Bullet : .308, 180, NOS BalTip 30180
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 25 inch or 630.1 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 114.2 64.2 4.16 3001 99.3 65000 12398 1.126
Vihtavuori N560 112.2 63.8 4.13 2978 96.5 65000 12484 1.127
Alliant Reloder-22 115.0 63.3 4.10 2965 98.3 65000 12097 1.131
Accurate MAGPRO 115.2 66.5 4.31 2965 94.9 65000 12544 1.131
Winchester WXR 113.7 63.6 4.12 2963 98.1 65000 12116 1.131
Alliant Reloder-25 120.0 65.0 4.21 2955 99.9 62363 11963 1.142
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 115.8 67.5 4.38 2945 96.9 65000 12270 1.124
IMR 7828 SSC 112.4 62.9 4.07 2945 96.7 65000 11966 1.126
IMR 7828 116.7 62.9 4.07 2945 96.7 65000 11966 1.126
PB Clermont PCL 517 116.2 67.6 4.38 2944 96.9 65000 12258 1.125
Somchem S365 109.2 59.2 3.83 2929 100.0 65000 10333 1.141
Rottweil R905 115.1 62.7 4.06 2929 96.5 65000 11815 1.135
ADI AR 2213 110.2 62.3 4.04 2928 96.5 65000 11835 1.127
Ramshot Hunter 103.3 60.0 3.89 2921 99.7 65000 11150 1.140
Alliant Reloder-19 112.4 60.6 3.92 2915 98.1 65000 11414 1.136
Winchester 760 101.0 58.0 3.76 2915 99.3 65000 11083 1.144
ADI AR 2209 106.7 59.7 3.87 2908 97.9 65000 11273 1.132
IMR 4350 105.5 56.8 3.68 2904 99.5 65000 10824 1.140

NO.



.

AIU
I was not using any of the powders you listed.
Charge weight was 56.0gr, and Accu-load/Load-Tech predicted 60,000psi at 55.6gr. of the powder I was using.

BTW, Nosler (#3, 4 & 5) show a max load of RL-19 at 61.5gr which yeilds a average velocity of 2995 in this same rifle.

Boom Stick
I'm in the process of building a 30" 300 Tomahawk, so for now I'm just playing around with my -06 doing a little case modification experament that may get transfered over to the Tommy if it shows any advantage. BTW, The 3162fps (mentioned above) was generated out of standard Rem brass, not my modified case.

Cold Bore, I have no idea as to how much gain was atributed to the 1.5 increase in bbl length, nor the difference in bbl makers ( not much from my experiance is my guess). I suppose if you rechamber a 300 H&H to 300 weatherby using the same bbl (the weatherby is just an improved 300H&H) you will see a gain there as well. Improved cartridges are for people who like to experiment with cartridges that don't need radical "Wildcat" procedures. You can still use factory ammo if you choose.

One more note....I should have stated that 2934 fps was the highest velocity gain I achieved safely and with out excessive pressure sighns. At 3005 fps primer pockets loosened up on the 3rd reloading. I dont think you can get that much speed with the standard 30-06 case at all. All the 30-06 Ack Imp gives you is factory 300 Win mag velocity out of a shorter bbl (at least when compared to the 2 300's I shoot both with 24"bbls). The 300 can be reloaded to much greater volicity safely than the factorys offerings.........

quote:

I was not using any of the powders you listed.
Charge weight was 56.0gr, and Accu-load/Load-Tech predicted 60,000psi at 55.6gr. of the powder I was using.

Well from looking at Loadtech it looks like you are reading W748 data. It also says that you could go to 58.5 stay at 63,000 or below and get 3290FPS. If I had verified those velocities in an 06 and had no pressure sign what so ever I sure would leave well enough alone.

Having used a 30-06 for a number of years and a 30 Gibbs exclusively for 13 years (deer and elk), I now wouldn't change the '06.

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
I have a 25" comericial mauser, and with a 150gr NBT all I can get out of it is 3162fps (5 shot avg).
Should I AI the chamber to gain a little more??

You are already above PUBLISHED Ackley load levels.

the ONLY thing you could possibly gain is to make it easier to stuff the case full of RL22

And you cannot simply rechamber to the 30-06-AI
the AI reamer will not "clean up" the shoulder/neck junction on the std 30-06 chamber.
to properly rechamber the A-I you need to turn the barrel back 0.050" or so (typically one thread on many rifles) to A-I the chamber.

that seems like an awful lot of work for a rifle you are already "hot rodding" past AI levels.

Add to that the fact that the dies for the AI '06 are considerably more expensive than the perfectly good 30-06 dies you already have.

I've had people call me nuts for driving 165gr bullets to 3100fps in an '06.... in a Remington 700 which is undeniably stronger than a mauser... and all I'm doing is using as much RL22 as I can make fit in a neck sized case...
(If I can fire a case that's been loaded to that level five times without the primer pocket loosening up... then there is nothing dangerous
going on)



AllanD

Ahhhh.......NO!

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
I have a 25" comericial mauser, and with a 150gr NBT all I can get out of it is 3162fps (5 shot avg).
Should I AI the chamber to gain a little more??

Hey Bob, You're not trying to just a little are you? Jim

Who, me?
How ya doing Jim

Bob, I'm doing good. Hoping I can get back there again come November and shoot another 8 point with that deer killing machine 22/250 A.I.! Hell yes you should Ackleyize! Do you need a reamer? Or even better yet send it to me and I'll do it for ya......no charge! Jim

Bob, the 30-06 is maxed. Don't waste time and money!! You know I am an ackley fan, but in this case, unless it is from the start, I wouldn't change anything. Now if it were a 6.5x55 or a 257rbts..........

the brass will last a tad longer, and maybe after interpolating some data on slower powders, you can pick up a bit of speed, but IMHO not enough to ream a barrel that already shoots well. However, if it is a poor performer, then yeah, ream it and start fresh.

I don't think the gain in an 06 case is big enough to justify the cost.

quote:

Originally posted by hvy barrel:
I don't think the gain in an 06 case is big enough to justify the cost.

Do you need a reamer? Or even better yet send it to me and I'll do it for ya......no charge! Jim

What part of "NO Charge" do you find cost prohibitive?

You are already well above the speeds 99% of reloaders get for the 06 and 150s. I'd have to say the AI would be a waste of your time. Lots of fire forming and extra expense for a gain that will not increase your effective killing range.

Good Luck

Reloader

Why mess with the old fogey, it's been doing well for all this time without the "ack" moniker. A resounding NO! Jay

There is'nt as much to gain in the 06 as it like the 6.5-06 is already close to functional bore cap.If it were 257 Roberts or 7x57,I would say definately to do so.I have done both + was well pleased.Also W/the 22-250 AI in a 1/6 twist for use with the Sierra 80 G.But as stated above the 30 Gibbs is an alternative.I have one with a 26" #7 contour bbl on a 98 action that ballistically I get comperable results as my 300 H+H.The plus side is the overabundance of 06 brass.If you decide on the Gibbs,drop me a PM + I'll relay the load data that has worked for me.

The O6 AI has a few advantages over the Gibbs. First, you can shoot regular O6 ammo with impunity in the O6 AI. This makes fire-forming easy in the 06 AI. Second, the longer neck in the O6 AI allows for more gripping of the bullet, which is especially useful when tapping and packing slow burning powders - that is, those powders that will give you maximum performance. I bet I could get more Re25 in my 06 AI without having the bullet push-back out than in the shorter-necked Gibbs, even with the latter's very slight increase in case capacity. By the way overall case capacity with these two very similar wildcats will be determined more by brand of case than anything else.

Ackley is pretty clear in his book that the improved versions of the 30-06 are optimal with 180 grain and heavier bullets. The cartridge is pretty efficient in the 150 grain bullet weights and little is gained with the extra powder capacity.

here's a quote from Hornady's manual

"But our 30-06 improved did not live up to better performance expectations; it only succeeded in using more powder to achieve the same velocity of the standard 30-06"

I might add that this was true even with 180 and 220 grain bullets per this manual.

The improved cartridges are a waste of time and money. There is no significant improvement in anything. On the other hand it's fun to look at the fireformed case.

Of all the things in life this is not a big deal to do one gun. If someone said that it was now a law that I had to AI or K all my chambers I would be quite upset.

I have three of the dumb chambers. Wish I could wish them away.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
The improved cartridges are a waste of time and money. There is no significant improvement in anything.

I have three of the dumb chambers. Wish I could wish them away.

Yea....you know it and I know it.....but some on this forum don't!!!!

I was going to build a .257 weatherby AI once but was afraid the bullets would exit the muzzle so fast that they'd disintegrate before they got to the chronograph....... The thought scared me so much that I decided to build an ordinary 25-06.

No way. Those ackley unimproved cases are the shit. Just like a K&N filter sticker on your pickup window adds 50 HP. Those AI chamberings will get you at least 300 fps more then the standard case.

not no, but heck no.

try rl22 instead

jeffe