The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 284 WInchester in Short ActionGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have a Winchester 70 push feed short action I am looking to use as the basis for a new medium bore "do all in north america" long range hunting rifle. I really like the 284 Winchester cartridge ballistics and efficiency. I think the new Nosler Long Range Accubond in 150 gr [BC 0.611]would make a nice pairing in the 284 Winchester. Question, seating to magazine length or shorter, is 2850fps or greater possible? I am thinking 26" barrel. Does anybody have any experience with the 284 in a short action? | ||
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I haven't had one in a Winchester action, but I did have one back in 1963 on a Mexican Mauser action. It was a beautiful looking gun until you tried to make it feed (had fabulous wood on it). I got it in a trade, and whoever built it must have gotten the rails FUBAR. Never did get it to do right. And as my little shop was devoted to feeding my wife and kids, I didn't waste too much time on it. Went on to things I could sell honestly as good hunting rifles. That left a bad taste in my mouth, so ever since I've had nothing to do with .284s except in actions and guns they were made in by the big factories. BTW, I like that cartridge too. The two that really turn my crank are the Win M88 and the Sav M99. A good way to get 7m/m-'06 (.280 Rem/7x64 Brenneke) performance out of a lever gun back in the day. Good luck with yours. I'm sure there are lots of 'smiths today who can put you together a really good one in almost any price range. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I wouldn't limit the full potential of the 284 by stuffing it into a short action & thereby having to seat the bullet deep & loose powder capacity. I built mine on a R. Famage 1957 Mauser action & load the 140 accubonds to an OAL of 3.075. Rifle is throated .500 & shoots under .750 all day long.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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I had a Browning Safari .284 years ago which was made on the Sako L579 action. It fed and functioned perfectly. The magazine on the L579 is only about 2.8", which is probably shorter than the M70 short magazine (aren't they about 3"?). If that is the case, then bullets up to around 140 grains fit pretty nicely. The Accubond is a rather long bullet for its weight, so I'm not too sure how deeply you would have to seat it in the action you propose using; but achieving 2850 fps, especially with a 26" barrel, shouldn't be too much problem. | |||
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Use a long action Both the original and the 6.5 with heavy bullets need them seated deep to fit in the short mag. I have a 6.5-284 on a short Remington action, it shoots great but I wish I had used a long action. I bought a 270 for the action but I like it as a 270 so the 6.5 is still short. Mark | |||
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With today's modern slow burning powders that when the Winchester 88 and 100 came out were not available I would think that the 7mm-08 would do all that the original ballistics of the .284 Winchester could do GIVEN A 26" BARREL ON THE 7mm-08 without the feeding issues. | |||
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Since the saM70 is good for the 7x57, it should be equally as good for the .284win
I had a saM70 for several yrs, but at the time never found a smith confident enough to do the conversion to 7x57 or .284win. Another good option is the Ruger 300rcm or 338rcm necked to 7mm, should feed fine from a WSM-M70 action, and give one more in the mag. | |||
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I thought the whole point of the 284 was it's ability to be used in a short action. Otherwise the 280 Rem is a much better choice in a non magnum 7mm Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Roberts asked if a .284 built on a short M70 action with a 26" barrel could be counted on to produce 2850 fps or more with a 150 grain Accubond. He's gotten a lot of peripheral comments, but the answer to his question is "yes". We all know that factory ammunition didn't really do what it was advertised as doing, but the factory-listed ballistics are usually what you could expect from a cartridge loaded to optimal velocity in a 26" barrel. Winchester's original 150 grain load was listed at 2900 fps in their ballistics tables. That's not an unrealistic velocity for a handloader optimizing the load for a particular rifle. | |||
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You'll have to get some 284 case and bullet seat them to your magazine length and see what you case capacity is. My 284 27 1/4" long barrel and with 160gr AB seated out to 3.200" @ 2983fps. My first 284 was build on a short action and I had the Wyatt magazine box for the Rem 700 and that helped but if you want same length as 6.5x284 Norma @ 3.228" for the 7mm 180gr bullet need the long action. Nolser data for the 284 @ 2.800" with 24" long barrel max for the 150gr AB @n 2879fps. I have some 150gr Nosler BT and at 2.800 you have 3/4" of that bullet in that case and that just about end of ogive. Well good luck VFW | |||
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Consider a Kimber Montana in 7mm WSM or another WSM. They weigh less than a M70 Featherweight, have more power and a better stock along with being CRF and not just poosh feed. You may find one ready. No waiting either. Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes instead of what someone else says. When we go to the doctor they ask us what lens we like! Do that with your optics. | |||
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Yes it will work plenty good.. Years ago I had Darrel Holland rebarrel my Push Feed 7mm Mauser Winchester Fwt. into a 284 Win. I ran everything from 140-175grn My go to load was 160 Speer Hot Core @ 2850fps. MopaneMike | |||
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Last time I checked the Nosler LR 150gr bullet was 1.380" long about 3/4 of that bullet be in the case. Some of the older Speer bullet 160/175gr they were 1.210" to 1.245" and about half that bullet was in the case. What made the 6.5x284 Norma LR was the increase in case capacity SAAMI OAL 3.228" vs OAL for the 284 @ 2.800" Same hold true for the 284 at LR with high BC bullets and you sure don't decrease case capacity add barrel length thing your going to gain. If you want to play with those bullets and you might want to try the 6BR site lot of those guy are shooing 284 at long range. VFW | |||
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My suggestion is measure your mag box. Most 150 grn 284 loads are spec'd at 2.95 inches. Short action rifles have varying mag box lenghts...anywhere from 2.85 to 3.1 Another thing you can do which I have done is thin the mag box walls to pick up 30 or so thousands. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have minimal experience switching calibers period. But, I can almost swear that some rail work is going to be needed to switch to the (fatter than a .308) .284 chester. If you're OK with that then I suggest GOOGLing for more information on 'maximum .284 loads' or long range .284 Winchester. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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My first 284 was a Browning Micro-Medallion. It was certainly a 2.8" mag. With the 20" barrel, it went right at 2800 fps with factory 150 grain loads. I wish I had never traded that gun away. *sigh* Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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The magazine box is about 2.86" long on my Winchester 70 action. I found this link online... 284 Hunting/Tactical Rifle This is almost exactly what I want to build, the numbers look very impressive. Based on the information I am hearing, I think these kind of numbers should be possible from a short action 284. Understand there are better options for the 284 in a long action, and even better cartridges in a long action, but I would like to use what I already own if possible. | |||
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If I was using a short action I sure wouldn't stick a 26" barrel on the end of it. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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You could sell the action and buy a better suited one. I think the MRC short action in 7-08 is an ideal donor rig with a 3.125" magazine length. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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FWIW, having had two custom guns built on MRC actions and having talked to my riflesmith, I would recommend something different. Robert tells me the actions are pretty rough. The first one he built for me took a lot of work to get to feed 35 Whelen cases from the left side... | |||
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Yes the actions do have that reputation but I was thinking of a re-chamber of an existing 7-08 gun and not starting from just an action. I think an existing gun would be a better start and a 7mm barrel to boot. If the desired velocity cannot be met than maybe a longer chambered barrel. I like the idea of a 6lb 284. The CIP spec for OAL of the 284 is 2.8" I think.  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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+1 **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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Plus another one.   | |||
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The point of the 284 was to fit in the model 100 and 88 WInchesters, max overall length of loaded cartridge was 2.80". Not very practical with about 1/4" of the bullet jammed into the case. This is what I did and I think most practical. I started with a 1909 argie and rebarreled it with a Krieger 9 twist, chambered it and then throated it out to handle the then 160 Barnes to a loaded overall length of 3.20". The action and mag box were a perfect match! A true medium length action. I had the barreled actiodn "Black-T'ed", dropped it into a Pacific Research stock (no longer available even from Borden) and it turned into a nice rig. Got a bit beat up on a few hunts but still a great rig, and a handy rifle. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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One of the best sellers by far for Mel Forbes, was his NULA-M20 offering in .284win, which IIRC, has a 3.oo"magbox. here is some good reading on: 160gnAB achieving near 3000mv, 2.90" CAOL, 25" barrel- The shrt action M70 will accommodate 2.90" length. | |||
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Your OP was about using the 150gr LR bullets and lot just looked at the # looks like everything I want. In that article in load development it was mention difference between the berger 180gr VLD vs 162gr Amax and just the different in bullet length .105" diminished case capacity 5gr. It's not so much which action to use vs are you going to get the results you want. You mention the short action 284 was almost what you want to build so why not build what give you the results you want. VFW | |||
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Since this has devolved somewhat from the OP's question, had one of my own. I understand the desire for something different and a 284 fits the bill. Wonder though what you gain over a 7mm-08 in a short action. Looked it up on the Barnes site, loading their 150 gr. in a 284 at 2.86 COL they got 2800 fps +/- Same bullet in a 7mm-08, 2.7+ COL came in over 2700 fps. Powders were very different as was the charge. But for practical purposes, is there really a difference? (and yes, I own a 6.5x284 on a long action, would do a 6.5-06 if I had built it) ______________________ Ken A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. --- Greek Proverb | |||
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Try a YUGO 1948 Commercial action. It is the "Intermediate" action, and the box is approximately 3.25" long. I know, because I just took the one sitting on my desk here apart and measured it. I bought two of these several years ago when they were inexpensive. One turned into a 6,5-284, and the other one, as I said, is sitting here waiting for inspiration to strike me. Rich | |||
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You might be able to fit a WSM box and follower in that action, that will increase the mag length to 3.050". It works on the new controlled feed actions, not sure on a push feed. Shoot straight, shoot often. Matt | |||
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I had a 284 built on a SA 700 action. Never had any problems because I only shot 115 or 120gr bullets. You can always go to a single shot follower and chootem one at a time. | |||
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