What do you think is the most verstile cartridge created ?

For me it`s the .358 Norma Magnum, in that it can use 357 magnum bullets for practice and small to medium game hunting, and the Nosler 180 grain Partion for the handgun be fien for various hunting, and the new Swift 180 HG A-Frame aswell.

225 grain grain bullets for longer range hunting and 250 grain for allround use . A Partion 250 grain with near max charge is as flatshooting as the 270 Win and the 250 Swift for Bears and elk and others.

The 250 grain woodleigh RN for where you nned the little more extra faster expansion for antilopes and crocodiles, or Hornady and Speer can also work fine there.

And the Woodleigh 310 grain soft and solid for the Big Game up close. This has been used a bit on the big Five where theyre allowed Zimbabwe ,Rhodesia again the future has a law that goes on the energy instead of the bullet diameter for game.

1 rifle, 2 scopes and two loads, that will make the .358 Norma work on wery much different hunting. Hopefully the gunsmith will send it up soon so i get to use it!!

Either the 338WM or 375H&H.

With the 375H&H, it is one rifle, one planet.

Everything but African Top 5, I favor the 338WM carbine.

I second the 375 H+H
Everything, everywhere and universally available.

Mark

Hmmm, I rather like the .358 Norma Magnum.

It is a pity it is not more common.

Additionally, I think both the .350 Rigby Magnum and .350 Newton, which the Norma round has over taken, are / were fine cartridges.

But, IMO, for versatility, the nod goes to the .338 Win Mag. Bullets available from circa 180 grains through to 300 grains for handloaders.

The chambering is offered by many manufacturers and the ammunition is loaded by many manufacturers.

Down loaded, it makes an effective deer rifle, like the .338-06 and 8x64s. Loaded to full potential, it will easily take all but the very largest bears at spitting distance safely.

It is capable, under ideal conditions, of taking all hoofed game (except the giraffe, which I have read is .375H&H territory), including the cape buffalo. Probably not legal in many / most countries, but I would have thought a 275 or 300 grain premium bullet would kill a buffalo.

Obviously it is not a charge stopper, but like the .350 Rigby, it would work for open ground style shooting, like the type of plains safari which were coomon during the .350 Rigby's heyday.

Because of the upper end usage potential, I do not think, from what I have read, the .300 Win Mag and .30-06 are as versatile.

For the handloader, I'd agree that the 358 Norma mag would be it, from 110 gr cast to 310 gr solids, will take any game just as proficiently as the 375 H&H. Same could be said for the 350 Rigby, but brass is the tricky bit, Bertram sucks, and Hornbear is nearly impossible to obtain. I'll attest de-belting, cutting a deeper extractor groove, fl sizing and trimming 375 H&H brass to make 350 Rigby brass really sucks!

But, game regs being what they are, as well as finding guns chambered for that round, and ammo, 375 H&H wins.

For anything other than elephant, rhino, and buffalo, the 300 WM.
From 100 lb Coues deer to 1200 lb brown bears, it works!

mr. rigby, I would have to go with the H&H as well. It is the universal cart. It's like that credit card, "it's everywhere you want to be".

When you think of ground squirrels to charging cape buffs you would have to select something in the center or just bite the bullet and say there is no singular answer. roger

Bertram (brass) sucks and Hornbear is nearly impossible to obtain.

I had read Bertram brass is rather soft. I guess supply - limited production runs from Germany would be a likely problem also.

How about the Kynoch ammo?

They make loaded .350 Rigby Magnum ammo in 225 and, I think, though it is not shown on their webpages, 250 grains.

There is also an American Kynoch shop too.

I am looking into a 9.3x62, x64 but, deep down, and just to be different, I rather like the idea of a .350Rigby. I just like the absence of the belt (as against .338Win Mag, .358 Norma Mag and .375H&H)!

I would be interested to read load development using 280 grain Swift A-Frame and 310 Woodleighs. I am guessing the performance, with modern action and powders etc, would be around that of the .338Win Mag and the .358 Norma Mag.

Living in Africa "all round" has to start with 9,3 ( being the legal minimum for most commonly seen game other than impala ie buff, hippo and ele). If you reload, I would go with the .400 Tembo or similar. pistol bullets for practice & plains game to 350grn X or mono's for big stuff. If you don't reload, the .375 wins.

Personally though, I use a 9,3 x62 with just two bullet weights for everything from impala ( speer 270grn) to elephant (woodleigh solids) with Ken Stuarts 286 grn softs for buff, lion, eland & Girrafe. QD scope is Zeroed 1" high at 100m for the speer bullets, and is then bang on at 25 for the woodleighs & Stuarts (for night use on ele and lion). The open sights are on at 50m with the 286grn load.

Local conditions seldom permit a long shot. haven't had the oportunity in my own country to shoot at anything over 100m except impala on the zambezi floodplain in many a year!

allright thanks for the input and , perhaps the .400 tembo would be a nice allround rifle for hunting. i have read the article by Doctari and it looks like a great cartridge,

But for now the .358 with the ruger .450 NE will do fine for me.

And if there someone in the Gamedapartment that need some help to take some crop buster elephant or`other big games, just send a pm

quote:

Living in Africa "all round" has to start with 9,3

My friend Pieter Olivier was asked the same question once by someone which 3 cartridges would be best as an all round cartridge for Africa - from Impala to Buffalo. His answer:

1. 9.3 x 62
2. 9.3 x 62
3. 9.3 x 62

We got smiles and laughter - no arguments. At the bottom end he uses 180 gr Impala bullets for long shots with good effect and the heavier bullets for close to medium range. Very difficult to argue considering his success with his loads.

On the other hand my other friend, Pieter de Klerk, prefers a 300 Win Mag with Barnes-X bullets for all antelope hunting up to Kudu regardless of distance as he swears by his Barnes-X bullets. Also to argue the toss with him would be to no avail.

Another friend of mine hunted his whole life with a 30-06 Spr and shot just about all game species over a 40 year period - he never argues and would only laugh when a question like this comes up as he would invariably change the subject to shot placement.

I just don't like the idea to limit myself to just one cartridge as it affects me playing with more toys.

Chris

35, 411, and 470 are blessed with pistol bullets.

the 470 can wrap up pakyderms the best but are not good for long range varnmiting but rabbits and deer beware. the 35 can varnmit good enough but i think a 35 dakota or 35 a.r. wildcats would be better. the 411 is a good intermediate that can qualify for d.g. so if you dont mind the scarcity of bullets it is the best middleground. me i am making a 470 a.r. and would looooove a high powered 35

so yes the 358 norma is awesome but i would not do thick skinned d.g. with it and being a factory round is a great benefit. the new bullets and powders make it as good as the 375 of days of old. it will do d.g. fine but not a stopper. lets make a 411 dakota or a.r. and be in versatile heaven

Jens perto a Danish hunter and author has a .358 NM and he has used 310 grain woodleigh for BG, and for him it worked fine. He has had his rifle for nearly thirty years and taken ca 40 species with it.

quote:

Originally posted by mr rigby:
Jens perto a Danish hunter and author has a .358 NM and he has used 310 grain woodleigh for BG, and for him it worked fine. He has had his rifle for nearly thirty years and taken ca 40 species with it.

There is no way in HELL, I will ever say that 358 NM isn't capable of hunting the "Big Five"!!! It's a powerful cart. However the question was versatiliy and to me cart availibilty is one of the key ingredients of versatility. Ergo my selection of the 375 H&H.

Yes i agree with you there , that the great .375 H&H is a very versatile caartridge , and it`sint the only one that is it. Almost all cartridges ca be versatile in one form or another, but there a good thing to have a bullet diamter that can be used for very much different.

The one thing thats stupid about the 35s is that there isnt any good match bullets for it.

I have two centerfire rifles for hunting. A 221 Fireball and a 375H&H. I have others for play, but with those two, I'm covered. Versatile? You bet!!

I think a good case could be made for the 35Whelen in the versatility role ... perhaps even the 338/06. Seems that with the 35Whelen we have very reasonable performance with some very acceptable compromises. Larger cases start to require a heavier rifle, smaller cases are limited in what they can do with the heavier projectiles.
Cheers...
Con

the 12 Ga shotgun....

9.3x64B

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
the 12 Ga shotgun....

Actually darn hard to argue with that. Up in west Africa there is nothing for which a 12g 3" wouldn't be more than adequate except forest elephant- and they are quite rare. With good slugs the smaller forest buff can be safely taken and since anything over 25 yards is a long shot... Even here, if it were not for elephant and hippo - a 12g would work ( but accademic since I proably see more ele and hippo in a days hunting than anything except impala, and a shotgun is illegal for hunting anything other than birds or problem animal control in Zim)

most versatile cartridge would be the 30-06

Although Vapo has a good point with a 12 ga when you think about it.

Versatile to who? A 130 lb kid wouldnt look at a 375 H&H or a 350 Norma as versatile. Nor do they qualify as legitimate varmint rifles IMO.

280 Remington gets my nod. Anyone on the planet can use it for anything from prarie dogs to Bull Elk, and be in good company with those who have dedicated rifles for any given purpose within that scope. Sheep, plainsgame, the list goes on. True it falls short in reguards to DG, but nothing that doesnt fall short of Cape buffalo will cover these other bases as well as the 280.

From a 100 gn Hp @ 3400 fs to a 175 gn partition @ 2800 fs and all points inbetween. Flat shooting, hard hitting and very managable. Thats a lot of bang for the buck..

The way I see it, if you can afford a DG hunt, you can afford another rifle for said hunt. Thats not what the one gun hunter is about.

At least in the US, I would think the .30-06 is the most versatile, and for my won little world of hunting nothing beats the .338WM with .338 bullets from 160 grains to 300.