I have no use for the following as I can't find a need for them:

.xxxxxx weatherby
.xxx Ackley Improved
WSSMs
WSMs
RUMs
RSAUMs
everything under .224 caliber
.220 swift
.225 winchester
45-70
444 marlin
.450 Marlin
30 M1 Carbine
everything more powerful than the .30-06 and less powerful than the .375 H&H

303 brit
30-40 krag
handgun rounds in a rifle

anything ever chambered in the M-94 winchester

.35 Remington
.351 self loading
.401 self loading
.358 winchester
.338 federal
.458 winchester
anything 8mm
anything french, Italian, japanese, chinese, or Russian military

So, what do I like?
.223
.257 Roberts
6.5 X 55
.270
.280
30-06
.375 H&H

Is there need for anything else?

Anything with an X in its designation.

6.5x55
7x57
9.3x......etc

Dont know why, guess I am prejudice aginst X's not to mention the designations just look ugly.

I have no need for any of the WSMs ,SAUMs, or Ultramags . I am sure they all work just fine. But I have no desire to own any of them.

quote:

The 7mm mag is another sloppy killer,

Speak for yourself. I've had sterling success in Africa, Canada, South Carolina, Texas, Alabama, and Florida with mine. Taken everything from one-shot kills on kudu & gemsbok at 300+, a variety of whitetails and a variety of plains game and one lowly jackal with mine. Beat's an '06 as far as I'm concerned, and I've owned both.

I refuse to buy any of the new wonder calibers. I prefer to stick to the old classic calibers, the newest I have being the .223.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

quote:

The 7mm mag is another sloppy killer,

Speak for yourself. I've had sterling success in Africa, Canada, South Carolina, Texas, Alabama, and Florida with mine. Taken everything from one-shot kills on kudu & gemsbok at 300+, a variety of whitetails and a variety of plains game and one lowly jackal with mine. Beat's an '06 as far as I'm concerned, and I've owned both.

I agree. I own both and my 7 has dumped everything in its tracks except ONE deer at 40 yards that I lunged with a 140 btip. He actually ran a few yards...woopee. Sloppy killer my ass.

The very best of new introductions are the wssm's and the wsm's. All lever action chamberings are a waste of finger tips.

Long live the Coyote!
The road to Hell is paved with lever action chamberings.

quote:

Anything with an X in its designation.
6.5x55
7x57
9.3x......etc

Dont know why, guess I am prejudice aginst X's not to mention the designations just look ugly.

This list include some of my favourites !!!
The way these European calibers have been designated is probabily the most descriptive way one can put it ... it tells the bore diameter and the length of the case, seperated by the 'x' - quite smart. Much better than than 270 Win that is actually a .277.

If one happens to like a Mauser action, one is invariably drawn to mauser calibers.



Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Much better than than 270 Win that is actually a .277. Warrior

The "270" is a .277/.270 rifling....it was easier to simply call it a two seventy.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Much better than than 270 Win that is actually a .277. Warrior

The "270" is a .277/.270 rifling....it was easier to simply call it a two seventy.

I think he means just how so many cartridges "change" the actual numbers to give them a different name, where as the euro designations are pretty straight forward. There are not too many American cartridges that give the actual caliber. 300 anything (.308) 280 Rem, 260 Rem, 325wsm, 340 Wby, 356 Win, 222, 221, 218, 270...Thats all I can think of off the top of my head. The 30-06 of course has meaning in its name, but I guess if it was a Euro designation it would be 7.62x63, or the .257x63....Hmm, well unless you're using MM, the "x" just doesnt look as good

30/06.....300 Win is all that and fries.

338 WM....300 Win or 375 H&H..what else do you need??

243 Win....too big for vermin, too small for deer

22-250....get a Swift and do it right.

270/280/7MM Rem Mag....see "30/06"

375 Ruger....mainly something new for Boddington to stump for. I'll keep my 375 Wby.

WSM,WSSM,RSAUM,RSM....who cares??

Probably could think of more.

The caliber confusion - The rifle's name may not be descriptive

The subject of bore diameter in rifles could be confusing as there is no consistency in the naming of cartridges. Generally the caliber refers to the bore diameter of the barrel, as measured from land to land. The lands are the parts between the grooves that have been cut deeper into the barrel. The groove diameter is bigger than the bore diameter. The bullet diameter, normally matches the groove diameter.

There are exceptions though and that inconsistency creates some confusion - it stems from the days when bores were still smooth and round ball ammunition was used. Smooth bores naturally have no grooves and thus there is only one diameter and that diameter is the bore diameter, which was the same as the lead balls that were fired in them. No confusion with caliber here.

Then rifling came to stabilise a long projectile - the bullet as opposed to the lead ball. So bullets had to be made bigger to effectively seal both the bore and grooves to avoid the high-pressure gas escaping before the bullet leaves the muzzle. Another reason was to prevent flame cutting or erosion of the rifling and to maximize velocities. (Lead bullets are another exception, they have to be slightly bigger than the groove diameter, about 1 thou, so the pliable lead can be forced to seal effectively.)

Now we get the situation that some cartridges are named after the 'bore' diameter and some after the 'groove' diameter. That can be confusing to the uninitiated - for example, the 308 Winchester and the 300 H&H, when in fact their barrels are cut to the exact same dimensions, save for the chambering. The 308 Winchester hints to its .308 groove diameter and the 300 H&H hints to its bore diameter. Both shoot .308 bullets. So what is the caliber ... the groove diameter or the land diameter? Now we have to switch and say the groove diameter is the caliber as we are shooting .308 caliber bullets. There are many more examples of this. For brevity sake I will just mention a few:

The 222 Rem shoots a .224" bullet.
The 270 Win shoot a .277" bullet
The 318 Westley Richards shoots a .330" bullet
The 404 Jeffery shoots a .423" bullet
The 425 Westley shoots a .435" bullet
The 450 Rigby shoots a .458" bullet
The 470 Nitro Express shoots a .474" bullet
The 500 Jeffery shoots a .510" bullet
The 577 Nitro Express shoots a .585" bullet

Even a man as experienced as John 'Pondoro' Taylor, made many mistakes in referring to caliber size of some of the abovementioned cartridges. The term 'caliber' is used as a measuring stick, for example, Krupp referred to his bullet as being 3 calibers long with a 2-caliber ogive nose. Also, Prof Greenhill used the caliber relationship of diameter to length to calculate the twist rate needed to stabilise a bullet.

How cartridges were named, is not making it any easier for novices to understand as it did not happen to a common or standardised system. For example, the 30-06 Spr got its name partly because it was of .30 bore diameter (from the 30-40 Krag) and it was designed in 1906 - the bore and the year separated by a hyphen. The 7 x 57 mm is fairly logical; the caliber and the length of the case. The 375 H&H is a combination of its caliber and its maker, namely Holland & Holland. The 25-06 Rem is a more complex one - the 25 refer to its .257 caliber (not very precise) and the 06 that it was derived from a 30-06 Spr case, just necked down to a smaller diameter. The 7 mm-08 Rem follows the same logic, save that it stems from a 308 Win case - the last two digits of the 308 was used. The 30-30 Win is a combination of bore size (.300 caliber) and its original load of 30 grains of balckpowder. The same system was used for the 45-70 Government. The 303 Br has a bore diameter of .303" and it shoots .311 bullets whilst the Br refers to the fact that it is a British cartridge. The .250-3000 Savage is an interesting one - the prefix refers to the bore size and the suffix refers to the fact that a standard factory loaded round can achieve 3,000 fps. The most logical system to me is the German system, as you know exactly what you are looking at - for example:

6.5 x 57 mm
7 x 57 mm
8 x 57 mm
8 x 60 mm
8 x 68 mm
9,3 x 62 mm
9,3 x 64 mm, etc



Warrior

The .458WM does nothing for me and the same goes for all .30 magnums except, of course, the .300 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
The .458WM does nothing for me and the same goes for all .30 magnums except, of course, the .300 H&H.

Cewe,

Interesting comment! The world is riddled with 30-06 Spr users and I am sure you will have them at your throat. Please give us your favourites and why.

Warrior

I respect the 7x57 and 8x57, but would never buy one. The history of these cartridges just gives me a bad feeling.

Duckboat,

Perhaps because people were shot with them?

Warrior

Warrior, it is much more than that. You must realize that and you shouldn't be so snide about a topic that couldn't be more serious.

I understand if some people can put history aside and appreciate the utility of the cartridges. But I am reminded that these cartridges historically were tools that primarily served evil regimes and killed many freedom loving people. I realize that all cartridges, including the 30-06, have killed some good people, but these cartridges are associated more than any other with agressive war that killed literally millions of people.

Duckboat,

So you blame the tool, a non living entity, is that right? Should we also blame those rifles/calibers that killed the Red Indians in Amerika? The spears of the Zulus that killed many a boer (read the Piet Retief massacre). The Nazis never used the 7x57 and it is on your list. The Boers used the 7x57 against the British and would you contemplate that they were an evil group of people?

Along the lines of this reasoning where do we draw the line? The caliber just refers to the bore diameter - the hole in the barrel !!! Should we not rather blame the make of rifle, or those specific rifles that were used in wars, or is it regardless of the date of manufacture, or should we heap all the blame on the manufacturer as well?

Come to think of it, how many atrocities were committed by sword over the centuries? How many were burned at the stakes? Should we then as a consequence ban swords and stakes? Some Indians still use the stake as a method of burial, yes?

There is an old Indian saying that says ... "who killed the buck, the arrow or the Indian?"

Warrior

<<So you blame the tool, a non living entity, is that right?>>

No, that is not right. I never blame a tool for the actions of men. But as I said above, if that tool is primarily associated with evil regimes, I am reminded of the history.

<<Should we also blame those rifles/calibers that killed the Red Indians in Amerika?>>

No. As I mentioned above all cartridges have killed some good people.

<<The Boers used the 7x57 against the British and would you contemplate that they were an evil group of people?>>

I wouldn't say any whole people are evil, but sometimes they have leaders who are.

<<Along the lines of this reasoning where do we draw the line?>>

I draw the line as I mentioned above: When the cartridges historically were tools that primarily served evil regimes.

<<The caliber just refers to the bore diameter - the hole in the barrel !!!>>

Correct, and I never disputed that.

<<Should we not rather blame the make of rifle, or those specific rifles that were used in wars, or is it regardless of the date of manufacture, or should we heap all the blame on the manufacturer as well?>>

I never talked about blame, but since you ask, I blame the leadership of these regimes.

To reiterate, I understand if some can put aside their history and I respect the utility of the cartridges. But I cannot forget their history enough to buy one.

Duckboat,

I will have to respect your sensitivity about evil edeavours committed since the beginnings of man, but we should divorce these actions from the "tool" used.

Could you give me a list of calibers that were used in evil encounters and the nations that you atribute these killings to.

Warrior

<<Could you give me a list of calibers that were used in evil encounters and the nations that you atribute these killings to.>>

For the third time, all cartridges have killed good people and have been used in evil encounters. If you read my earlier posts, you know where I draw the line. I'm now done responding because I can't make it any more clear.

quote:

all cartridges have killed good people and have been used in evil encounters.

Duckboat,

Then frankly you should not own any guns per your definition and not single out the 7x57 and 8x57 calibers.

This is a matter of fundemental reasoning.

Warrior

Great question.....

I truly despise the 30-30. And I wouldn't go as far as to call it a great cartridge.

As far as others go...I'd have to agree with the 270 Win. (though I own 2). 30-06 and .308 also.

I guess the whole jack of all trades - master of none thing gets me.

Some of my favorites though.....7x57, 280 Rem, 35 Whelen........go figure.

Ken

I guess a marketing guru would find this fascinating, why people like or dislike a product because of its name or history.

You people who love the .280 Rem, but not the .270 Win, or vice-versa, do you really think that you could tell the two cartridges apart if someone held them side by side from ten feet away?

quote:

Some of my favorites though.....7x57, 280 Rem, 35 Whelen........go figure.

Ken

And what a fine list that is!


Why are so many people getting defensive about rounds outher people do not like? The question was adressed in a personal nature. What YOU do not like. It does not have to be rational.....Just individual opinions.

7mm mag, has to be the most over rated cartridge of all time! cant believe all those against the .270, of course I have 3 of them.

Ok guys, I don’t hate any cartridge. I just don’t have much use for cartridges that are not at least as old as I am and pushing 60.
I like the 6.5x55, 257 Roberts, 7x57, 8x57, 9.3x57, and 9.3x62.
I also like 26-06, 270 Win, 30-06, and 35 Whelen. I have no objection at all to a .280 Rem, 338-06 or any thing else built on a 06 case.
If you think you need a magnum cartridge get an H&H or a Weatherby and be done with it.

quote:

Reply

I never liked the .243 and do not see any purpose for the short mags especially the .325.

I do not like the 30-06/308/270, never have.

Over the past 3 years or so, I have trimmed my rifle collection down to just a few favorites that I will depend upon.

For my own personal useage, a 257 Roberts that I share with my wife.

My 300 Weatherby Mark V with a 2.5 to 7 Weathernby Premeir scope, the only variable scope I own and use.

A Ruger Model 77 in 35 Whelen that I had rebarreled from 22 inches to 26 inches, with an old Steel Tubed, K-6, El Paso Weaver mounted on it.

An Interarms Mark X in 375 H&H with a 6 power Cabela's Pine Ridge scope.

For my carry rifle when doing my javelina hunts, a Marlin 1894 in 44 Rem Mag.

A 1915 Norwegian Krag in 6.5x55, simply because it is an interesting gun design and a very adequate caliber.

A Model 94 Winchester Cheif Crazy Horse Commerative in 38-55, that using hand loads is quite impressive.

And a Re-Build project, a 1907 Winchester Self-Loader in 351 Winchester caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by McInnis:
I guess a marketing guru would find this fascinating, why people like or dislike a product because of its name or history.

You people who love the .280 Rem, but not the .270 Win, or vice-versa, do you really think that you could tell the two cartridges apart if someone held them side by side from ten feet away?

Sure I could. I get this very real aura of dread and doom if someone brings a .270 to deer camp.

I bought a M70 in .270 a year or so ago for the action alone. Even though I dont hunt it, I feel dirty. Furthermore, the 5-shot groups of my other rifles next to it in the same safe have opened up an extra 1- 1.5" or so at 100yds. Pure evil in SS and black.

If it goes bang I like it.. However I guess my least favorite cartridge is the 270.

Don't hate it but I never wanted any of the 300 magnums. Not sure why since practically every experienced hunter uses one.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
I am sure some of the folks who shoot it don't even know what the 06 is. Doug

Ok im just a young pup here and laugh if you may, but i was always wondering what the -06 meant. So what does it mean???

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Much better than than 270 Win that is actually a .277.

just the same as the metrics in other words.
6.5x.. - 6.71mm
7x.. - 7.21mm
8x.. - 8.20mm

quote:

Originally posted by bill23:
Ok im just a young pup here and laugh if you may, but i was always wondering what the -06 meant. So what does it mean???

introduced in 1906

Well now my list is sort of middling.
I dislike the 270Win because its a poor cousin to the 280.
I don't care for the 30-06. Why? I don't really know, I just don't.
I hate the .243. Its too big for this and too small for that. Anything you'd hunt with a .243 would be better hunted with something larger or smaller.
I hate the belted cartridges - all of them. The belt has no purpose other than making its user feel superior or more manly.

I don't care for the short fats, but thats mainly primarily b/c the manufacurers use powders they won't sell to us so we can't duplicate their factory performance.

I do hate the .30-30. A dinosaur that does nothing other rounds won't do better.

I do love the 6.5mm, 280Rem, 308, 8x57 and I'm sure I will love my 338-06 when it gets back from the gunsmith.

This thread has drawn way more response than I expected. It certainly shows that gun manufacturers aren't going to go out of business for offering a variety of calibers. One post will have someone hating the caliber and the next post someone will love the caliber. One statement I see quite often in these posts is about a caliber that won't do something that another caliber will do better. I'm sure you could get a good discussion going even on that.I would bet that with any caliber someone would choose, someone else would say there's one that works better instead of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking this thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed it, just making an observation. Again, one thing the thread proves is that variety is indeed the spice of life when it comes to firearms.

I don't dislike or hate any of the rifle rounds. I guess I'am just a true gun nut. I love them all.

This is a long lived thread. My least favorites are anything with Weatherby on the end. I don't like the 7STW and I'm not a big fan of the 30-06. I would like a 280, have a 270 blaser barrel but will sell it because I have a 270 wsm that I'll keep. I prefer short action calibers and that means 260, 7-08, 308 and the like are my favorites. I will most likely own a 280 some day soon. I like the 243 but like the 6mm Rem better. Don't own a quarter bore but want a 257. Also, don't see much of a need for AI, WSSM, RUM-long or short, but, someone likes these and therefore we get some wonderful choices. It's all good.

Any .22 except rimfire is useless to me and the 6mm is cutting it pretty close.