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I was at Cabela's yesterday and an elderly gentleman asked my advice on what cartridge to use for an upcoming elk/deer hunt. I recommended something like the 180 gr Nosler Partition, but the sales guy pushed for the 165 gr Nosler Partition. Did I steer the guy wrong? (he wound up buying the 165gr Nosler Partitions (Federal). BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | ||
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The Deer/Elk will never know the difference. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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I've used the 180 Grain Partition on both deer and elk, Africa too. I am happy with the choice. The 165 grain is probably fine, I just have no experience with it. Dave | |||
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I would have picked the 180gr Partition as well.  "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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I would have suggested the 180 NP also. I'm sure the 165 NP will work but as it was recommended by a Cabelas employee I think the recommendation carries very little weight based on any expereince. My ex BIL is going on a DIY moose hunt in AK. He wanted a new rifle and went to Cabelas. The counter guy told him he recommended a 6.5 Creedmoor. These guys are idiots. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I guess the moose in AK are different than the moose in the Nordic country's where the 6.5x55 is the round of choice. weight diameter and velocity are weight diameter and velocity. | |||
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Well, they don't have to worry about bears. But seriously, why choose a 6.5 if you can shoot a .30-06 better? Hell, I would choose a .308 Win over a 6.5 every time. Same logic applies to bullets; the only reason to shoot a 165 is that your rifle groups them really well but can't hit a barn door with 180s. Flatness of trajectory? Get a rangefinder; most folks can't discern if an animal is at 250 or 350. Once past 150 or so I always range or I don't shoot. | |||
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Most don't agree with my choice, but I like 150 grainers in my 30-06 and this includes moose to whitetails. I know, the two moose shot with those anemic 150 grainers weren't dead, but we ate em anyways. | |||
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I know barely enough to type the words "ballistic coefficient" and "sectional density", but isn't there something to be said for an optimal bullet weight for each caliber that creates the best proportional ratio between length and width for the projectile? (for aerodynamics, not smack on the animal...) I thought I heard somewhere sometime that 168gr for a .308 bullet was a proper answer to this question. And 140gr for a 6.5mm, and... | |||
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'06 ... 200gn bullet @ 2500fps, or a 220gn slug @ 2400fps. Doesn't matter, ... 'cause the bear or elk or moose or deer will be going down hard with a well-placed shot. All The Best ... | |||
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You won't see any AK hunters during moose season carrying 6.5s of any kind. The most popular cartridges over here are the .30-06, .300WM,.338WM, and father down the line 7mm Magnum, .375H&H, and so on. I too prefer a 180-grainer for the .30-06. | |||
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Always funny as hell that a .270 Win is an elk killer with a 150 but on AR the bullet of choice for the 30-06 is a 180 150, 165, 180 are all great bullets for the 30-06 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I fellow I used to work with has cleanly taken 20+ elk with an early 90’s synthetic/matte-blue model 700 ADL 30-06 from Walmart, and the couple boxes of 150 grain corelocks he bought when he bought the rifle. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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My recommendation would be to buy 180's, 165's and 150's and see what really shoots best in his rifle. Then kill elk with whatever weight bullet that may be. | |||
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Either will certainly work. I've used both but I at least believe the 180 works just a little better. I think the terrain factors into it somewhat. Typically where I live the shots are fairly close so a heavier bullet stands a better chance of penetrating deeper. But if all I had was 165's I would still go hunting. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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I found a 220 in my 06 provided exemplary performance. It penetrated multiple feet of moose. Heavy for caliber bullets launched at moderate velocities worked way back and still do. Cabela's gun counter guys are as bad as anyone around. Locally, I have seen it. Our fabled LL Bean is at least as bad. The other day their gunsmith did not know how to remove a barrel from a receiver! | |||
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I would go with at least the 180 grain pill. I like to anchor the Elk I shoot and not chase them to the next mountain ridge. 180's just do better at that. 220's would work for me too, but where I hunt 300 to 400 yard shots are very possible. The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
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Back when my only rifle was a .30-06 I loaded 150 grain Hornady Spire points for deer and 180 grain Sierra GameKings for elk. Back then Colorado's deer and elk tags were all over the counter, and the seasons were concurrent. So some years I would be deer hunting and shoot an elk with a 150 grain bullet, and other years I would be elk hunting and shoot a deer with a 180 grain bullet. The same was true the first few years that I lived in Montana. The deer and elk were all just as dead with either bullet. When I re-chambered my .30-06 to a .30 Gibbs I started using 180 grain Nosler Partitions for elk because they gave better penetration at the higher Gibbs velocities. About eight years ago I got a .300 Weatherby and until this past year I used Barnes 168 grain TSX and TTSX bullets for everything from 30# African plains game to New Zealand Red deer and Montana elk. Last year I put a Leopold VX 3i scope with the CDS turret that was built for my 180 grain Barnes TTSX handload, so that is now my bullet of choice for just about everything that I will hunt with my .300 Weatherby. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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The elk I killed with 165's didn't complain about me not using a 180. Don't think they would be any deader either If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Thanks for all the feedback. I've killed elk with 130 gr bullets in my .270 and 154gr bullets in my .7mm Wby Mag, but I always get in close for elk (within 50 yards) and have no experience at shooting elk at longer ranges with a 30-06. For deer, I've used .270 with 130 and 150 gr bullets, .7mm Wby with 154 gr bullets and .308 with 168 gr bullets and they all have dropped like a shot (except for one mule deer I shot with the .154 gr 7mm PS), the deer was quartering away at about 200 yards and I went for the far shoulder but hit a little behind and the bullet zipped through the rib cage without opening or hitting the lung area. My bad). Another deer, using the same load, same bullet, shot at the same angle at about 250 yards, opened up after striking a rib and blew a hole the size of a football out the other side. That deer dropped like a rock.) BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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BTW I am using a public library computer and I keep get warnings about how AR is a "weapons" category and my accessing this website will be logged. The liberal Nazis are stepping up their game. LOL BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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This is really all anyone should have needed to know. The sales guy was right to steer him to something a bit lighter recoiling... though nice, 180's aren't needed for elk. I've taken bulls with both.  | |||
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All of the answers miss a critical point entirely: You can't recommend a particular load unless it has been tried in a particular rifle and found to function perfectly and shoot with reasonable accuracy. Should he use the 165 or the 180? The obvious answer, regardless of theoretical terminal performance, is to use the one which has the best chance of hitting the elk. I'd much rather hit an elk with a slightly-less-than-ideal bullet than miss it with the ideal one. | |||
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I like the 180 gr partition, its the weight that made the 06 its awesome reputation..I'e mostly used it over the year until lately.. For elk I use the 200 gr. Nosler partition or the Accubond at 2600 to 2700 give depending on the gun, that's a good safe max load,and its a hammer..surprisingly enough Ive found the 200 gr. Nosler Partitions and Accubonds work on coues deer, the small Hillcountry Texas whitetail as well as bull elk, The 165 gr. is neither fish nor fowl in that by the fact its a compromise. Most compromise are just that..For deer I would rather have the 150 but for elk Id prefer the 180.. I stumbled on the 200 gr. Accubond by accident and fell in love like a school boy!    Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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When it comes to taking Big Game with the old '06, you either go heavy ... or you go home.  200gns or 220gns. Leave the light slugs for the .308.  All The Best ... | |||
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See Lesson #2 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I think your recommendation of the 180 grain bullet is spot on. Here in Arizona on elk, I like the 180 Partition at around 2700fps+. At 200 yards I have had pass thrus with this bullet on side shots thru the heart area. 30-06 is a great one, although for elk my favorite is The 35 Whelen. NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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180 grain bullet has a better B. C. than 165 and hits with more force. 30-06 at 400 yards is no easy feat even in calm weather with a range finder. I would have walked out of the store with 180 Accubonds. | |||
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It's only 18" of hold over or 4.25 clicks with a 250 yard zero ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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A couple years ago I pulled the bullets out of some Greek surplus M2 ball ammo and replaced them with 150 grain Accubonds. They seem to work fine on deer and elk. I shot my bull moose with a 180 grain Accubond and he was down after taking a couple more steps. I've used 165 grain bullets for years and they seem to work pretty good as well. I guess If I had to pick one to use exclusively I would go with 165 grain Accubonds or Partitions. What force or guile could not subdue, Thro' many warlike ages, Is wrought now by a coward few, For hireling traitor's wages. | |||
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180 "Accubonds" at full power or near. Shooting 3/8"-1/2" group at 100 yards. Accubonds would do shoulder aimed at far shoulder! I grew up with the. 270 Winchester and seeing the 303 British of my Dad's Lee SMLE 303 British, the.311 seemed a better moose gun than the 270 or any 6.5 for that matter. | |||
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The best "Moose gun" with reasonably low recoil will be either a .35 Whelen, or a .30-06 firing 220gn slugs @ 2400fps. Place your shot well and you'll have no issues. Only a dead Moose. All The Best ... | |||
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The best moose gun is the one you are most accustomed to, and the one you use for moose hunting, regardless of caliber. The reason why I say this is as follows: some hunters in Alaska hunt in forested areas, while some others hunt in large open areas where long shots are the norm. Then some others hunt from tree stands taking long shots, while others hunt on tree stands in forested areas. A .270 is quite handy for some, while for me the .338WM is king in Alaska. But the .30-06 is perhaps the most popular cartridge with Alaska hunters, favoring 180 to 200-grain bullets. The .300WM is also very popular with hunters in the interior where long and close shots on moose are taken, and so the .338WM. People in the coastal areas where the big bears congregate favor the .375H&H, and the .338WM. Ammo for these calibers above are readily available just about anywhere in Alaska. The .35 Whelen is good, but one have to look hard for ammo. It means that if one can reload it should not be a problem. I am talking about Alaska and moose hunting of course, so the OP should take my comments with a grain of salt. | |||
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 The 8 bull elk that I shot with 150 and 180 grain cup and core bullets from my .30-06 all went home with me and into my freezer. The 375" 6x6 also went on my wall. These were also all DIY hunts on public land in Colorado and Montana. I also shot a 330" 6x6 bull elk with a 117 grain Sierra GameKing that went home with me and into my freezer and onto my wall. That bull was also shot on a DIY solo hunt on public land in SW Montana. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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If I chose the 30-06 for moose the bullet choice would not be 220gr but a 180gr TTSX. | |||
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I shot both of my Shiras moose bulls, each with a 180 grain Partition from my .30-06 re-chambered to .30 Gibbs. If I ever hunt another moose I'll use my .300 Wby with a 180 gr TTSX. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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I killed quite a few elk with the 25-35 and 30-30 in my youth..All one shot kills, and none as I recall went more than 30 or 40 yards..BUT NONE WERE SHOT PAST 200 YARDS! on only a couple at that far...Remember the 30-06 becomes a 30-30 at about 300 yards give or take a 100 yards.. I had to pass up some really big bulls as a result of the guns I used, but I was very young and 06 recoil was said to make me shoot poorly.. As soon as I could I went to the 06 and 270 and a line of others including wildcats but later decided the .338 was to be my go to elk and big stuff pride and joy, and its held that position ever since.. The point being its how you conduct yourself in the hunting field, know your rifle and your capabilities and learning to shoot comes with that. and that wisdom allows you to shoot larger calibers and not have to pass up or wound those big bulls way out yonder. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Well I learned more about cartridges for moose than I ever wanted LOL I agree finding what cartridge and make shoots the best in your rifle is extremely important. Thanks again. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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Equally, and perhaps more importantly, appropriate recoil is critical, especially with an elderly hunter... Jack O'Connor preached it forever. Few listened then, few do now. This site in particular is inhabited with ubermensch who are never bothered by recoil. | |||
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