The 338-06 std. and IMP according to my chronograph basically shot a 210 Nosler at 2700 to 2800 FPS depending on which version..

The 30-06 shoots a 200 gr. Nosler at 2700 FPS in my guns..It appeared to me one gained less than 100 FPS and 10 grs. of bullet..I don't call that a magical feat! I call it a push, and so it seemed in the field..

With a 338 Win. I can push a 210 Nosler at 2900 to 3000 FPS and a 225 Nosler at 2900 plus a little, depending on the gun. That's substantial IMO...and the reason I went to the .338 Win some years past..

My go to guns today for NA are a std. 30-06 and a 338 Win. just my approach to the subject. My meat gun is a 250-3000.

From my perspective...
The principle value of the AI version vs factory fare in older highly tapered/lower degree shoulder angle is that, when reloading dies are properly adjusted, case stretch is virtually eliminated which can reduce the shooter's costs substantially. Of course the extra 100fps with at standard SAAMI COAL is a positive side benefit. And being able to accurately fire factory fodder in a properly cut AI chamber is a positive side benefit.

Of course the AI user can increase the velocity potential by altering the throating so that the base of the optimal bullet is seated at the shoulder/neck junction - but then the same can be accomplished with the standard factory configuration.

All are personal decisions...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I got in that trap and shot both for quite a number of years, I always felt the 30-06 with 200 or 220 Nosler was every bit as good as a 338-06 with 210s in std. and IMP version...at least in the field, and on paper the difference isn't amazing by any means.

Deer yes, not elk.

AR Cory
Do you really believe an elk can tell the difference in a 30-06 with a 200 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS and a 338, 210 bullet at 2800 FPS? If so your elk are tougher than Idahos!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
AR Cory
Do you really believe an elk can tell the difference in a 30-06 with a 200 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS and a 338, 210 bullet at 2800 FPS? If so your elk are tougher than Idahos!

You don´t get a .338/06 to shoot 210grainers. You get a .338/06 to shoot 250-300grainers and can still have 5+1 in a Mauser98 in a standard action. That's how I see it.

quote:

You don´t get a .338/06 to shoot 210grainers.

Yep but some of us don't have a 30-06 or any .308 So I jump from 160s in a 280 to 200-210. Yep a 225 would work but haven't needed it or a 250 for my shooting.

Really the 338-06 does alright with 200/210 gr bullets, as does the 338 Win Mag and the 340 Wby.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
AR Cory
Do you really believe an elk can tell the difference in a 30-06 with a 200 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS and a 338, 210 bullet at 2800 FPS? If so your elk are tougher than Idahos!

Cow elk can't, bull can.

Shoot a bull at dusk with a .300 frontal area vs. a .340 and I can guarantee you will eventually have coyote bate taking shoulder shots at a bull with tradition style bullet's.

I recommend only the 185 TTSX in the 338/06 and that is only 5 grains over standard 30-06 weight. 200 grains is too heavy to shoot in a 30-06 unless limiting shots to 300 yards or hunting grizzly bear in under 150.

The 180 TTSX in the 30-06 can easily be practiced with and 400 yard shots taken at bull elk; shoulder too at that distance. Can't say the same for the Accubond. No way Brother; I would NOT take a 400 yard shoulder shot at a bull elk with a 180 Accubond!


Corey

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
AR Cory
Do you really believe an elk can tell the difference in a 30-06 with a 200 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS and a 338, 210 bullet at 2800 FPS? If so your elk are tougher than Idahos!

You don´t get a .338/06 to shoot 210grainers. You get a .338/06 to shoot 250-300grainers and can still have 5+1 in a Mauser98 in a standard action. That's how I see it.

Only for grizzly are those kind of weights chosen. A 185 TTSX in a 338-06 is a dirt nap lullaby to a moose.

You've got 3 shots max at a charging grizzly.

300 grain bullets warrant the 338 Winchester Magnum too; .473 case is too small.

Cor

I like heavier bullets in my .338-06 but figure if you want 300 gr bullets, what you really want is a .375.

Dean

I agree with Jens, except I have a 286gr NEI roundnose mold which gets me the heavyweight and cast them from straight wheelweights.

Have some 250gr Barnes solids that would also be fine in my 338-06AI, but I keep 230gr Nosler FailSafes loaded for bear that might have to be dispatched on a moments notice.

Need to throat the barrel for the long NEI boolits. Have yet to test them out, but have done some case forming with 225gr Lee cast.

It is a very versatile ctg, especially AI'd for the heavier weights.

A couple of years ago I had my Kimber 8400 rebarreled from 30-06 Sprg, to 338-06 A-Square.
Barrel is a 24" Lothar Walter.
The rifle is my dedicatet moose rifle, and so far one young bull pluss a few red deer bucks.
Nothing to make statistic of but so far so good

Bullet used is the 225 grs Woodleigh PP, and scope is the Zeiss Victory 1,5-6x42 in Talley mounts.
Accuracy is very good, recoil is a tad harder than the 30-06, but clearly lesser than my 338 Winmag.

Nice cartridge,
nice rifle,
nice pictures.

Thank you Tanzan

I like this rifle and the way it shoots.
Naturaly, no bullets are found as all has been pass through.

Loaded to 2640 fps (N-150 powder) the meat damage is minimal, next to nothing.
It reminds me a lot of my old Ruger in 35 Whelen, but the 388-06 has a lot more good bullets to choose from.

But I guess the moose would not be able to tell any difference

quote:

It reminds me a lot of my old Ruger in 35 Whelen, but the 388-06 has a lot more good bullets to choose from.

Had Winchester made the decision to offer a .358 Winchester Magnum in 1958 rather than the .338 Winchester Magnum the bullet availability for each caliber would be reversed...

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

It reminds me a lot of my old Ruger in 35 Whelen, but the 388-06 has a lot more good bullets to choose from.

Had Winchester made the decision to offer a .358 Winchester Magnum in 1958 rather than the .338 Winchester Magnum the bullet availability for each caliber would be reversed...

An absolutely fantastic 358 is the 358 Norma IMO. You can get a lot of horsepower out of it in a 20-22" barrel.

This is all getting too complicated for me..A 30-06 or a 338-06 will kill anything in NA in my opinion, and Ive pretty much proven that to myself short of Alaskan Brown Bear and Id prefer more gun than either for them, I know they would work, but I also know their are better choices for the big bears.

My brown bear was taken with the 250 A Frame in 338-06.

quote:

Originally posted by smallfry:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

It reminds me a lot of my old Ruger in 35 Whelen, but the 388-06 has a lot more good bullets to choose from.

Had Winchester made the decision to offer a .358 Winchester Magnum in 1958 rather than the .338 Winchester Magnum the bullet availability for each caliber would be reversed...

An absolutely fantastic 358 is the 358 Norma IMO. You can get a lot of horsepower out of it in a 20-22" barrel.

I agree. It was a very real for Norma that Winchester didn't release a .308 Winchester Magnum in 1957, after the 1956 release of the .458 Winchester Magnum, because that likely would have resulted in the 1958 release of a .358 Winchester Magnum rather than the .338 Winchester Magnum which would have negated the 1959/1960 releases of the .358 and .308 Norma Magnums respectively (and I like both of the Norma cartridges)...

Had that been the case, who knows if the .338 caliber proliferation of cartridges would have taken place...

Why would anyone take a 30-06 over a 338-06. EVERYBODY has a 30-06! Not so for the 338-06

I have (3) 338-06 rifles, and (2) 30-06 rifles and (2) 35 Whelens. I hate having to make choices.

Here is my take:

0.338" is a nice hunting diameter.
If I want to use a standard length action, then a 338WinMag provides an exceptionally wide selection of loads, from full-power loads around 4000ft#'s to softer loads around 3500ft# or less, which are basically the level of the 338-06 or the 338 RugerCompact Magnum.

If I want a short action and a lighter rifle and load, then I would consider a 338 Ruger Compact Magnum. It is a cute little gun that equals the 338-06 in terms of case capacity.

So while the the 338-06 is a great cartridge, it requires a standard length action. So I would go with the WinMag because it includes access to the 4000ft# level of power if the hunter desires. The 338-06 capacity would seem to be best packaged in the short action rifles (with the 338RCM) since downsizing is part of the 338-06 "niche".

Think about it --- the 338 WinMag is about perfectly balanced for its diameter, though I'm willing to allow a "338-375ruger" or 33 Nosler as providing the other side of that "prefectly balanced" level.

Another question is what to recommend at the 30 caliber level. The 30-06 is pretty close to a similarly perfect balance. Again, there is an option to package this in something smaller, and there we have the tough choice between the 308 and the 30-06. For a short-action youth/light rifle the 308 would make a lot of sense.

quote:

Originally posted by mlfguns:
Thanks to all of you. There is a lot of validation for the .338-06 field performance. Surprisingly the 210grainer takes a back seat to the 225grainer. Thinking heavier and wider diameter bullet would encroach on powder capacity and longer range performance. It seems the 225grain is the perfect balance.
I like the .35 Whelen for up close, just not sure on range.

This is just the 06 vs 270 debate taken to a different level. The larger caliber will be more efficient with heavier slugs and the lesser will shoot a little flatter. Both do damage and kill animals. Also, if it were me, I would prefer a 338-06 with 225 grainers to its 308 counterpart for Elk. And there will naturally be a tad bit more recoil with the heavier slug. It is a trade off.

Just build the rifle, you know you NEED it!

As a side note. Once you make the commitment, the dilemma will not be over. You will still have trouble deciding which one to actually use on opening morning. I do it all the time between the Whelen and the 06.

In all honesty I wish I would have just gone with a 2 rifle battery of a 338-06 and a 6.5-06 a long time ago. The two seem ideal for the way I like to hunt in many ways.

I have NULA in both 30-06 and 338-06. Shoot 200gr Nosler E-tips and only recovered 1 with about 25 animals shot with it from blackbuck to elk. the bullet i found was in off side shield of boar at about 300 yds. They both kill but the 338-06 does it better.

I think, in an 06' action, the 9.3x62 is a much bigger step up in performance, than a 338-06. Penetration may not be significantly better, but the bullet is obviously much bigger. However, this reminds me that Fin AAgard once wrote that the 375 H&H isn't a huge advantage on game in the class you hunt. The 06' just works.

The problem with this thread is in the minds of all the beholders and all those experiences and perceived experience...

The truth lies in that not a caliber mentioned in this thread is incapable of killing any animal in NA and most of Africa with a proper bullet stuck in a proper place..They all work and if you didn't know the caliber you couldn't tell the difference....

If you need little more power than the .338/06, you can choose the 8,5x63Reb. 2600fps with the 250grs Nosler Partition (800m/sec) or with the light 139grs leedfree SAX-KJG 1030m/sek.

quote:

You don´t get a .338/06 to shoot 210 grainers. You get a .338/06 to shoot 250-300 grainers and can still have 5+1 in a Mauser98 in a standard action.

I agree completely.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the 318WR. 250 grain .330" bullet at 2400+fps. It essentially IS the 338-06. I make cases by necking 35W brass to .330" and trimming .10" from the neck (shoulder is the same place as an 06), but the OAL is .10" longer, so almost exactly the same capacity.


Introduced in 1910, it set the world on fire as an all around medium bore until that other company issued it's .375" round two year later. I think if that had never happened the 318 would still be the "reference round" others are compared to that the H&H has become.

Bob

EDIT: Opps, just saw Adam2's post about the 318WR!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Back when, pre .338 days, I was a big fan of the 338/06, then the 338-06 Ackley and even the .338 gibbs (the Gibbs was a farce in that it was hard to form cases and operated at real high pressures)....When the .338 Came on board I jumped on it and loved it from the get go..Same action, same weight, same recoil, and more juice by a good deal..Same with the 35 Whelen, a great caliber in its day, but the 358 Norma is the unsung hero of all the calibers, its a hammers hammer if ever there was one..I used it a little and loved it, but the .338 Win was close enough and components were and are easier to come by and at less cost..

Ray I have to ask you to clarify a few details. Back in the pre 338 Win days when you were shooting a 338-06 and the 338-06 Ackley & Gibbs What bullets were you shooting ?? At that time a few people played with the 333 OKH but that was a .333cal. The only .338 bullets available before the 338 Win mag came out were flat nose bullets for the 33 Win. I believe the 338 Win was released around 1958. After that time any interest in the .333OKH died and everyone started playing with 338 cal wildcats.

When I was shooting the .338-06 with Noslers. it wasn't that long ago..You would have to direct that question to Elmer Keith..When I went to the .338 win. nothingmuch changed except I got more velocity and it performed then as now much better than the 30-06, the 35 Whelen, the 338-06 with any of the bullets..The only real difference I could see was when the range was out at 300 yards and beyond. Where I hunt elk in Colorado, the shots are long in that wide open sage brush and ceder hills..In Idaho I would be just as well off with a 30-30 where I hunt in some really thick stuff, but the .338 works best in both as on rare occasion I might see a bull across the canyons at 400 plus yards...

The simply way to tell the difference win caliber is which one holds the most powder and shoots the larger bullet..

I think the 30-06, 35 Whelen, 338-06, 9.3x62 are all great calibers, but I know the .338 is better for my intended use. Of the above if I don't use the .338 I have done well with the 30-06 and 200 gr. Nosler partitions, but at long range all of those rounds left a bit to be desired in that they almost always allowed for two to three shots..Ive never shot an elk twice with the 338 or the .375..

I have used a 338-06 quite a bit. I personally prefer it to a 30-06.

You can look at as a mild 338 WM or basically a non-belted 300 magnum IMO.

I have played with bullets from 165 to 275. In my humble opinion a good 200gr is all you need for everything. Have used it on coyotes to elk. 35 to 300yards.

If you would ever need to use it on big African stuff, a 250gr would be your huckleberry. If the 250 would not work, you would want something significantly bigger than a 338 WM.

I desperately wish I would have not sold my last 338-06 to a dear friend. I would have taken it to Africa last June. Instead I took a 300 H&H with 180gr TTSX, worked fantastic as the PH said not to change a thing after six animals in six shots.

One guy used a 330 Dakota, two used 338 WM, and two used 375's. They all worked, mainly because we could all put the bullets where they needed to be.

As for the Whelen, I just don't like it. Long story, with no substantial evidence to be biased. I would opt for a 9.3x62 instead if you wanted a bigger diameter. I took the next step and went to a 9.3x64 Brenneke.

To put everything into perspective, I am a huge 270 fan, and have more than a couple.

I have a donor and a new 338-06 will be put together in the near future. Thinking a McMillan compact edge, #2 or #3 barrel contour at 23", Talley lightweights and a Leopold 2.5-8x36.

i was going to type a long piece, but to me, this quickly becomes why not 358 winchester? so, i have built and/or bought many of those..

when i started thinking about 338-06, the majority of bullets where designed for faster impact, and i passed,

when i looked at vel compared to SD, i quickly lost interest in the 338-06 .. and went 358 winchester ..

since 338 bullets are designed for higher speeds wouldn't a lighter bullet weight say 210 give more penetration?

second how could a 250 gran .313 SD bullet at 2400 fps be a bad thing on larger game?

isn't this a modern 318 WR?
confused.

If we're talking practicalities here, I would like to know where to find .330WR brass, and if the ol' WR ctg even uses the .338 bore diameter? Rhetorically speaking. I will look it up in Barnes' Ctgs Of The World someday...

What really makes sense to me is the .338/284... Combine this with a long action for flexible bullet seating and you've got the .338-06's identical twin. Maybe the 1/2" case body reduces magazine capacity from 5 to 4, but maybe not?

Kind of a custom proposition, but you have Lapua 6.5/284 brass, and Redding type S sizing dies that can be adapted to the .338 diameter w/minimum effort. Get a Forster benchrest seater in 6.5/284 and bore the neck to .365 or the neck dimension of your choice, order a .338 seat stem and you are golden!

Know how those 6.5x55 fmj rounds look with their long roundnose nickel bullet? Got about the same with the .338/284 when you load over 225gr. Lots of great heavy .338 bullets out there, and many in Europe for the .338 Lapua. The potential of the shorter 6.5/284 Norma case is very high.

The .338 Ruger Compact Mag is very similar.


Although, if you own a .375 there are several 225-235gr bullets and a variety of cast boolit molds to choose from. I recently bought a .375 Ruger. It really seems more capable than any other rifle I own to serve all-around purposes for me here in Alaska.


ETA: My .338-06 is AI'd. The gains of the AI are primarily seen with heavier bullets. I do have a .30-06 AI also in a switchbarrel gun. The gains in velocity with heavy bullets make the AI'd case the only way to go here in Alaska.

ETA 2: John McPherson who did the gunsmithing column for Precision Shooting for so many years, stated the .284win case was practical for wildcatting up to .375 bore dia. The extra .024" of case diameter gives some realistic shoulder over the .375 Whelen some like to do. Also some guys talk about a .400 Whelen... Well, maybe a .416/284 is doable? Of course, with a .416 Ruger loaded with cast boolits at 1600fps you could likely take any animal that came your way... Just more fun conjecture...

I can not but appreciate the quality a long heavy bullet have and what devastation effect it actually have. It is often a misunderstood believe a long bullet will only penetrate and leave small hole in/out. Here the.333Jeffery flanking 6,5x57 and 8x57.

Pig shot lengthwise with exit in belly


The long bullet will just push and push until a fistsize lump come out leaving a big exit hole.

im not a real big fan of the 30-06 but Im am in love with that 338-06 here in the midwest thats just a ger r done kinda rifle and as long as you hit the boiler plant neighborhood you wont have to blood trail him very far.