The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles .338-06 A Square VS. .30-06Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am a fan of the .30-06 and if using heavy for caliber load such as a premium 200grainer. For elk, Bear etc.. would a .338-06 with a similar 210grain premium bullet offer any advantage. Ballistically the 338-06 seems more efficient, granted slightly. Looking for FIELD experience with the .338-06. I have and use the .338win. Mag. and understand it's capability quite well. A good .338-06 seems to be at it's heel with performance at a much reduced powder and recoil charge. A good take down rifle in .338-06 and .270 win. would pretty much cover the gamut. Would you recommend I rebarrel my .30-06's to .338-06. I am not interested in ballistic numbers on paper. Only in field performance as in dark timber to open country, blood trail and visible incapacitation advantages. I know they are close. Again anyone with field experience feel free to chime in. | ||
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I got in that trap and shot both for quite a number of years, I always felt the 30-06 with 200 or 220 Nosler was every bit as good as a 338-06 with 210s in std. and IMP version...at least in the field, and on paper the difference isn't amazing by any means. I prefer to pair up a 30-06 with a .338 win for most of my big game hunting. As to the .338 win with 210 Noslers its no big difference when compared to the 06 with 200 gr. bullets, but the .338 moves away with the 225 gr. at 2900 FPS and 250 gr. at 2600 plus FPS, all things equal... One gets an eye opener when the chronograph comes out and you start comparing most calibers to the old 30-06, its an amazing caliber.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray thank you, I highly appreciate your input. | |||
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If you're going to go with a 338-06 wildcat, I recommend the 338 Gibbs. See.. http://forums.accuratereloadin...091032791#5091032791 | |||
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I happen to shoot a 340PDK Basically a 338 in a Gibbs style case. Or 340 Howell if you are familiar. Never owned a 30-06. Go figure. However I also shot a 338Wmag at the same time. With 210s and smaller I never felt I gave up anything to the 338Wmag. 225 & larger the extra case capacity won out. But I wasn't looking for close work rather a mtn elk rifle. That said the 200-210 in an 06 vs the same in a 338-06 the 338 will have more velocity. The smaller 308 caliber might penetrate a touch better. If you like your 06 and have faith a 338-06 isn't going to get you much. Want something new and want a heavier bullet for your up close work I would go 338-06 338Gibbs or 340Howell but with a 225 which is closer to the 210 in 308. The you have a larger heavier bullet at the same velocity as the 210 in 06. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I have shot two animals with my 338-06. Seemed to kill faster than my 30-06 but its two animals. I think you would would have to shoot 10 of the same animal with each to even say you had a trend. Both 30-06 and the 338-06 shoot relative SD bullets about the same velocity. The the 338 is going to punch a bigger hole and therefore make a larger wound channel and that is what kills. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Thanks again to all of you. My gun loony mind is trying to justify the change. I have been trying to consolidate my battery and sold quite a few but always seem to find new. To keep life simple. I will keep the .30-06 as is with it's twin. I do have a .338 win. Mag. and .375H&H for the bigger critters. | |||
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I have a .338-06 w 225 gr NPs and my wife uses a .30-06 w 180 gr NPs. Between the 2 of us we've taken about 20 animals from roan/zebra to smallish antlerless mule deer at ranges between 275 yds and 25 yds. I've also hunted deer and pronghorns with a .270 since I was a kid. My thoughts: -.338-06 out penetrates .30-06 by a fair margin. -.30-06 hits a bit harder than a .270. -If you have a .30-06 you don't need a .270 or much else until brown bears and eland come into play. - A .270 and a .338-06 are a bit more versatile and at the same time more specialized than a .30-06 on its own. -The best choice is the one that you shoot best and are most confident in. You've got a fun decision to make  .Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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I have not shot anything with the 30-06. But I have taken over 50 head of African plains game, from Impala to Eland, with the 338-06, using 225gr Barnes TSX bullets, at ranges from under 50 to just over 200 yards, without any drama at all. It has performed wonderfully for me, even on 2000lb Eland, shooting through thornbush. The 338-06 with a 225 grain bullet, and the 35 Whelen with a 250 grainer, are my go-to PG guns. Best to you. 114-R10David | |||
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I shot a lot of critters with an 06 some with 338wm and a few with 338-06 they all have died. With game above 500lbs I might give the nod to the 338wm. With good bullets placed in the proper area they all work just fine. | |||
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I mainly use a 180 in my 06 and I don't recall if I have ever taken an animal with a 200gr so this might be of limited value to you. I have taken many head of American and African game with a 210gr out of 338-06 and it seems to hit much harder than my 06, even with my stately 2700fps load. I can't really comment on blood trail as every animal I have shot was DRT or fell within sight in a few yards. I've pretty much retired all my magnums as they offer no real advantage in the distances I shoot - out to 300yds or so. My thinking is similar to yours in that a 280 and 338/06 is about all I would need for most everything I plan on hunting in America or Africa, dangerous game excluded, though I would have no problem shooting a grizzly with a 338/06 and a 225 or 250 gr bullet. 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
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I went with a 9.3x 62. .366" diameter, 250 or 286 grain bullets. I works well enough for me. | |||
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mlfguns - You said you didn't want paper ballistics. But I will provide these numbers for comparison: The cross-sectional bore area of a: The jump from .30-06 to .338-06 is about the same as a jump from a .280 Remington to a .30-06. But the jump from .30-06 to .35 Whelen is comparable to a jump from 6.5mm-06 to .30-06. So, while the .338-06 is larger than .30-06 both in the bore and down range, it is still far less than a .35 Whelen. My experience is with .358 Win compared to .308 Win but I think it applies. While the both are good deer cartridges, I've observed the .358 Win kills deer noticeably faster than the .308 Win. I know you would see an observable difference on game between .30-06 and .35 Whelen. But, as in the difference between .280 Rem and .30-06, I question whether you would see much different between .30-06 and .338-06. Differences in bullet weight get pointed out but sectional densities determine penetration and those don't differ much for the bullets generally used. I think bullet diameter, at least in this discussion, is more important. . | |||
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Very well said. From a practical, field results perspective, the above agrees with my 50+ years of hunting various species in different locations. And why I personally have - for big game - chosen the 7 Rem Mag and the Whelen. YMMV of course. | |||
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Thanks to all of you. There is a lot of validation for the .338-06 field performance. Surprisingly the 210grainer takes a back seat to the 225grainer. Thinking heavier and wider diameter bullet would encroach on powder capacity and longer range performance. It seems the 225grain is the perfect balance. I like the .35 Whelen for up close, just not sure on range. | |||
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The 210 and 225 Part are only .1" difference. Switch to the 225 Accubond and that cost you another .15" As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Just how many football fields away do you plan to shoot? Name a specific .358 bullet or two that you like and I'll run the numbers for you mosh skosh. Or, here are a couple. Barnes, 225gr TSX at MV 2600 fps - When sighted to zero at 225 yards the bullet neither rises above 4" nor falls below 4" from the line of sight all the way out to 275 yards. Speer 250gr Grand Slam at MV 2425 fps - When sighted to zero at 225 yards the bullet neither rises above 4" nor falls below 4" from the line of sight all the way out to 265 yards. Woodleigh 275gr PP at MV 2330 fps - And even with this brute, when sighted to zero at 225 yards, the bullet neither rises above 4" nor falls below 4" from the line of sight all the way out to 265 yards. . | |||
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The 338-06 is a 318 Westley Richards in all but name. The latter earned its wonderful reputation on African PG with heavy 250 grainers. I feed my 338-06 only 250 grainers with great results. In my opinion therein lies the real difference between the 30-06 and the 338-06. | |||
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mlfguns, Having used both calibers quite a bit and the '06 a lot I think the most noticeable difference I've seen is the 338-06 210 NP makes a bigger hole. That gives you better blood trails if any is necessary. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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mlfguns, to get down to it, they are catagoricaly the same when you compair 200-210s. Not exactly but catagoricaly they are. If you want a takedown gun/switch barrel then fine, a 270 and 338-06 makes more sense than a 270 & 30-06 or a 30-06 & 338-06. If I HAD to have a switch barrel and started with a 270 win, I'd pair it with a 9.3X62. But a classic 2 gun combo is a 270 win and a 338 win mag. There is enough difference to make a difference there. I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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All of your input is valued and appreciated. All of the calibers discussed are classic and worthy of owning. | |||
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Some years ago I decided on the '06 case as the most efficient case from 25-06 to 35 Whelen and have many in being it 25-06, 270, 280, '06, 338-06 and 35 Whelen. Have had the good fortune to take game with all of them. I have found the 338-06 to be the most versatile and have two on rebored '06 fwt and std rifles. From 250 gr on brown bear to 160 gr on whitetail and several -African antelope with 210 gr to mtn caribou/moose with 225 partition all were amazing workers. It is by far and away my favorite all around caliber from 22-416. Hope this helps. | |||
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Muygrande thank you. A friend and a .338-06 enthusiast just sent his Benelli R1 in .30-06 to JES Reboring in Oregon and had it rebored to .338-06. Jes said it was a simple job and probably the first in the country to do it on the Benelli. They make a 10 round magazine for that rifle and caliber. I don't know many guns that have that much power that can deliver with speed and light recoil 10 fold. It would make an awesome back up gun. | |||
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MLFguns, If one has a 30-06, a 338 Win. and a 375 H&H I can't imagine, in my wildest dreamsm, what else he would just have to have.. If you intend to hunt African DG, you might consider a 416 Rem or Ruger, but in fact you could get by just fine with a .375 H&H in Africa on everything, including elephant. As to the NA continent, and the big bears of Alaska, your 30-06 or .338 Win. will work just fine. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, I know you have foresaken the 338-06 for the mag and I have respect for your choice. I too have the 338 mag BUT at least my FN Safari weighs in at right at 10 lbs (a good thing)! At spry young age, no problem but my fwt 338-06 at just over 7lbs is both a pleasure to carry and shoot! I have found it frowning when it stays home and the 338-06 goes hunting. Thanks for sharing your many experiences. I learn something from them each time. | |||
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Muygrande, Hoth of my .338s weigh 9 lbs scoped with a Leupold 2x7x28 and a 2.5x8...One is a custom with long throat and magazine, and it really cooks if I so choose, but I hunt with std. loads in both..The other is a Ruger African model.. I decided long ago on the .338 Win for the following reasons: 1. Recoil is the same as far as I can tell. 2. I can load down my .338 Win to duplicate the 338-06, but can't load the 339-06 up to my .338 Win. 3. They weigh the same as my 338-06s and 35 Whelens weighed. 4 The .338 shoots flatter and hits harder than my 9.3x62s. 5. I believe my .338 Win. with a 300 gr. Woodleigh is as good in the bush as a 375 and if I have to shoot way out yonder it competes with a 300 Win mag. with a 210 or even a 225 gr. Accubond..or I can load the 210 partition and do it all. The above is my reasoning only, and certainly controversial to some, and that's a good thing. Last but not least, I don't believe I can tell any difference at all between a 200 gr. 30-06 and a 200, 210 or 225 gr. in a .338-06 on game or in the field trajectory wise. In fact the 30-06 is damn near impossible to beat under any circumstance as it will hold its own even against a .338 Win. if push comes to shove.. Just my opine only however! the 338-06 is a formidable caliber for sure..used it a lot in the past, without a complaint. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have used both 338-06 and 30-06, on hogs and roedeers. I will put 338-06 as a first choice over the 30-06. Both are great but knockdownpower in 338-06 is better. I used 225gr Nosler Accubond. To hold down the speed a little bit. Tried 210gr AB and Hornady spirepoint. But got alot of damage inside the game caused of the speed. | |||
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I have used both the '06 and 338/06 on plains game over many years. There is definitely a difference between the calibers, the way the game react to being hit and the blood trail of each. With the 338/06 I have shoot only 250 grain Nosler Partitions. This mimics the original 318 WR loadings and I understand why that cartridge had such a following. Good hunting BigBullet "Half the FUN of the travel is the esthetic of LOSTNESS" Ray Bradbury https://www.facebook.com/Natal...443607135825/?ref=hl | |||
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To me, the proper comparison is the 338-06 to the 35 Whelen or 9.3x62. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I was on a 35 Whelen kick for a while. The 338 had better bullet choices (US manufacturers) than the 358 or the 9.3. And the ballistics for both velocity and B.C. were better with the 338-06. I don't have one, but I think the 338-06 is a fantastic caliber, and if you want to shoot bullets over 200 grains and not go to the 338WM or a 375HH, I don't think you can do better. Dave | |||
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Thanks to all for your replies. I think the .338-06 is an under rated cartridge. It is a capable performer, especially with the heavier premium bullets. It might not be the top at one thing, but it bridges the capabilities of various calibers. Lower recoil than the magnums, higher cartridge capacity, efficient powder burner, ample ballistics for most game. Components are readily available. The parent case and bullet diameter have proven themselves. What's not to like. | |||
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I agree that the 338-06 is a great calibre. Basically, it is a 338 Win Mag when the WinMag is loaded down about 3 grains of powder. If I were going to get a rifle for such a hunting platform I would probably get the 338 Ruger Compact Magnum. It is a short action and can come in a lighter rifle. both the 338-06 and 338 RCM can be considered boutique cartridges for which a person should buy at least 200-300 cases to last a lifetime. CDNN has a few 338RCM available in walnut, LH and RH, for $499. And stainless all weather RH for $399. Those are great little guns, only bettered by the Win Mag itself. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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What he said. The real difference in performance will show up best with bullets of similar velocity, sectional density and construction. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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mlfguns, are you still staying with your 30-06? I have a 338-06AI. Love it. It compliments my other rifle perfectly. A 270. I've settled on one load for all with it. 210gr Scirocco. Have shot Moose and Elk with it. Tried the 225's but the gun just shot better with the 210gr. Glad I went ahead with the project. All the animals shot were big bulls and died very quickly. Hope this helps. Remember, you only live once. | |||
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Thanks to all for taking the time to share your input. I have a new appreciation for the .338-06. I wonder if the .338-06 was available before the .30-06, would the .30-06 and .338WM be in existence. Never mind, rifle loonies will always try to reinvent the wheel. No matter what size it is, it still rolls. I have a couple of rifle projects going. When finished, Yes I will build a .338-06. My rifle consolidation attempt seems to always revert to sell one and buy two. | |||
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If you are recoil sensitive then shoot your 30-06. Since you have a 338 Winchester Magnum, I would simply download it if you want to decrease recoil. mlfguns wrote: "A good .338-06 seems to be at it's heel with performance at a much reduced powder and recoil charge." No, the word "much" isn't true. The 338-06 is still a 338 and your bullets are going to be heavier, usually 210's and up. Granted, the powder charge in the case is less than the 338 Winchester Magnum, yet the 30-06 is going to be shooting a 30-55 grain less-heavier bullet. (210 and 225's are common in 338) Recoil will reflect this difference in bullet weights. | |||
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When I hunt in more open country, its a good feeling to have my .338 Win with 225 gr. Accubonds or partitions at 2900 FPS for those long shots a little beyond 300 yards, and on occasion near 400 yards..Thats when I notice the difference...In the timber I like the 338-06, the 35 Whelen and especially the 9.3x62, but even there sometimes you get a 400 yard shot across the canyon or in Idaho that's even a divide sometimes!  Those Accubonds sure do bloodshoot meat badly. but you can't have it both ways I don't suppose, but the partition isn't so bad. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Some years back I did a project with a 338/06 Ackley. If lighter bullets (180-210 gr) were used, it approached 338 mag ballistics. In the end, I think the convenience of the Magnum offset the effort needed for the AI. This was done before commercially available 338/06 ammo, so if done now, I might reconsider the results. | |||
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Back when, pre .338 days, I was a big fan of the 338/06, then the 338-06 Ackley and even the .338 gibbs (the Gibbs was a farce in that it was hard to form cases and operated at real high pressures)....When the .338 Came on board I jumped on it and loved it from the get go..Same action, same weight, same recoil, and more juice by a good deal..Same with the 35 Whelen, a great caliber in its day, but the 358 Norma is the unsung hero of all the calibers, its a hammers hammer if ever there was one..I used it a little and loved it, but the .338 Win was close enough and components were and are easier to come by and at less cost.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The gibbs was no harder than most non AI type blown out cases. False shoulder load and go. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I used a Weatherby Ultralite in SA for plains game loaded with 210 gr Partitions. All of my animals from a little Mountain Reedbuck to a very large Waterbuck were felled by one shot. The gun was a dream to tote around, recoil was nothing and even out to 260 yards (Black Wildebeest)they were all dropped very cleanly. I love the rifle and that 338-06 round. I think it definitely has more zip than the 30-06. Gary | |||
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