quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Hey you guys forgot to mention the uncrowned kings of redundant BS no need cartridges.

The Ruger RCM's in .338 and .300.

i agree - should have been full length, and either loaded to match the 300 and 338 win, or laoded full tilt, to match the weatherbies

Its funny Ruger dropped the wsm cartridges and then brought out there 300 and 338 rcm.The 338 rcm was shooting 2.5" groups and the writer said it was the most awesome cartridge.My old 53 year old 338 wm Ruger 77 Mark II stainless shoots under an inch 3/4" at 200 yards.Yes I want to sell it for a cartridge that will be gone in 5 years.
I love the 416 bore .I have had 6 416 rem mags and still have three of them.The new 416 Ruger will fit in any long action gun but Ruger is the only one that makes a single gun for it and hardly makes any of them.The old 458 wm was the gun of Africa but after alot of ammo failed and it was not up to the speed they advertised it got replaced by the more versital 416 Rem Mag.The 416 rigby is an oldie but goodie brought back from the dead .The old 416 Rigby guns went silent for a very long time till Federal made ammo again.It required a magnum action and a much larger case than the 416 rem mag does.This summer I think aug-sept Hornady is going to make $65 a box ammo for the 416 Rem mag .That will be alot better than the $140 ammo that too expensive to target shoot.
The wsm cartridges tried to better the 300 wm and the 270 wsm did better the 270 win but not the 270 Weatherby.Its the most popular cartridges that will survive.If we still have guns in 50 years there will still be 45-70 not 450 marlins,30-06s and not 300 Ruger rcm.The trick is to make you buy a new caliber you really dont need.I laughed at Bass Pro Shop the guys working there would buy guys 30-06 and 270 win for nothing and sell them a much better 300 and 270 wsm.I laughed at how cheap they bought these awesome guns.
I bought a gun i always wanted a 405 win Winchester 1895 Teddy Roosevelt model because I wanted it.I called Hornady a few years back to see how long they would make ammo.They said if there was a demand for it they would keep making it.The first run of 405s mostly sat in the closets in boxes.Then they made a few more runs and a few more people bought and shot them.They made more ammo and finally brass.Its a pain when there is no ammo or brass for the 405 win because it can only be made from the 30-40 Krag and the 9.3x72 mm .
Its fun to buy a new gun but these days it wise to lay back a watch a year to see if it will make it or just buy a new gun in your old favorite caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

Degree of worth; quality.

Nah - that's calibre.

quote:

Originally posted by Oddbod:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

Degree of worth; quality.

Nah - that's calibre.

Good point!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Hey you guys forgot to mention the uncrowned kings of redundant BS no need cartridges.

The Ruger RCM's in .338 and .300.

i agree - should have been full length, and either loaded to match the 300 and 338 win, or laoded full tilt, to match the weatherbies

BINGO! Ruger REALLY screwed the pooch on that one.

How about you buy what you want and I'll buy what I want and to hell with what everybody else thinks.

[QUOTE]I have to disagree with your assessment of the .416 caliber. I know that Winchester has recently resurrected the .416 Remingtion but a couple of year ago the caliber had become moribund. I think that the only .416 Remington you could buy was from the Remington custom shop. QUOTE]


I was overjoyed to see the .416 Remington "cartridge of the month" emerge onto the market!!

It meant I didn't have to fireform brass from the .375 H&H anymore for my .404 Barnes Supreme. The two cases are identical except the much, much, older Barnes uses .411" diameter bullets.

Now I just run the necks of the Remington cases over the expander ball in the RCBS/Barnes FL die, and then load 'em up! Hoorah for the Rem .416 cartridge of the month. I bought 500 of the Remington cases as soon as they hit the local market.

Of course, if the companies discontinue the .375 H&H, and ALL the other long, belted, magnums, .416 Remington shooters MAY be screwed. Until then, they can just do what I used to do with my .404 Barnes...fireform .375 brass in their .416s...

quote:

Originally posted by 45otto:
How about you buy what you want and I'll buy what I want and to hell with what everybody else thinks.

Good idea, nobody here is trying to stop you from shooting whatever you want.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Well first it is not "caliber" it is cartridge.

I hate to break it to you but it is "caliber." That useage also grates hard on my ear; kind of like when a newbie talking about a cartridge refers to it as a "shell" or a "bullet." Common useage, unfortunately, has made it acceptable to refer to say the 30/06 Springfield as a "caliber" rather than a "cartridge." If you don't believe me, just look at what's in print from reputable gun writers who have editors that supposedly know better.

If that's so, the gunwriters and their editors have taken it upon themselves to change the definition of the word caliber, which is:

1.a.
The diameter of the inside of a cylinder.
1.b
The diameter of the bore of a firearm, usu. in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and written as a decimal fraction.
1.c
The diameter of a large projectile in milimeters or inches.
2.
Degree of worth; quality.

Gidday Guys,

As we arein such a pedantic mood I wish to correct the spelling on here.

The correct spelling is calibre, not caliber. Sorry I know it will grate with alot of people who were educated in the US but as the word did not originate there the US can not dictate the spelling.

A pedantantic old fart I know but another pet peeve is the use of the word gotten. This word is a bastardisation of the word got.

You have not gotten something, you have aquired something. It is just pure laziness to not use correct grammar so maybe that is why Obama uses this word.

Just a matter of class I suppose

I have too much time on my hands now due to the earthquake so you will have me worrying about things like this a lot more

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Some truth to this. I have some .223's, a .308, a 7 mm RemMag, and a 12 gauge shot gun for my "long guns".

I can walk into a Walmart anywhere and find ammo for those.

My only odd ball is a .454 Casul, and that has a decent following.

get a 7.62x39 and you will never run out of bullets.
This caliber will never go by the waste side for reasons beyond our control
joe

quote:

Originally posted by 45otto:
How about you buy what you want and I'll buy what I want and to hell with what everybody else thinks.

Agree. You cant hunt or shoot with popularity. Just get enough brass.

quote:

Originally posted by 45otto:
How about you buy what you want and I'll buy what I want and to hell with what everybody else thinks.

For those that actually know what they want I can agree fully.....but for those that ask me what should I get.....I'd never recommend anything I think will become hard to find or discontinued in a few years.

quote:

The correct spelling is calibre, not caliber. Sorry I know it will grate with alot of people who were educated in the US but as the word did not originate there the US can not dictate the spelling.

Hamish,

One of the multiple reasons that we threw the Limey bastards off the continent was so we could spell any way we wanted to.

In the US we spell it caliber just like we spell color and many other old English words differently.

If you take the time to speak to a trained linguist you'll find, much to horror of a proper Englishmen that the most correct form of the spoken English language is with the accent of the Midwestern American and that is because we are capable of pronunciation of the letter r which folks affected by a British accent can not.

So in closing since you folks can not properly speak the English language we must assume that you can not spell it properly either. Welcome to the brave new world.

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:


The correct spelling is calibre, not caliber.

Hamish

Despite being a non Septic, I must respectfully disagree: Caliber & calibre are two distinct words with separate meanings & the former is exclusive to tubes of one form or another.
The latter refers to something or someone's worth.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

The correct spelling is calibre, not caliber. Sorry I know it will grate with alot of people who were educated in the US but as the word did not originate there the US can not dictate the spelling.

Hamish,

One of the multiple reasons that we threw the Limey bastards off the continent was so we could spell any way we wanted to.

In the US we spell it caliber just like we spell color and many other old English words differently.

If you take the time to speak to a trained linguist you'll find, much to horror of a proper Englishmen that the most correct form of the spoken English language is with the accent of the Midwestern American and that is because we are capable of pronunciation of the letter r which folks affected by a British accent can not.

So in closing since you folks can not properly speak the English language we must assume that you can not spell it properly either. Welcome to the brave new world.

The midwest American you speak of is also called a neutral accent, it is very close to what a large portion of Canadians speak. The neutral accent is most desirable in most forms of American entertainment. In regards to the spelling, I grew up with the old English spelling of certain words like calibre, colour, favour and continue to use it out of habit. A lot of our spellings didn't even originate with the English, they stole it from the French.

Generally I agree - many of the new rounds don't dramatically improve on the old ones. However, that would be hypocritical, as I recently ordered a 6.5x47 Lapua. I figured what's not to like about a 6.5mm specifically designed by Lapua to beat the 6mm BR for 300m match shooting? Strikes me as absolutely perfect for roe and fallow deer here in England

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
Here are a few dead mackerals and a few to come mackerals thats you should stay away from the 7mm and 300 rem short mags ,the 223wssm and 243 wssms, 25 wssm ,7 mm wsm ,450 marlin , 376 , 300 ruger and 338 Ruger short mags ,480 Rugers ,6.8 mm ,308marlin and 338 marlin .It just really sucks when you cant get ammo such as the 5 mm rem mag they had to wait 30 something years for new ammo with no way to reload or shoot.I dont know why these companies insist to use cases that are impossible to find such as the 6.8 mm is made from the 30 remington.The 204 came from the 222 rem magium instead of the 223 which would have made alot more scence.If you stay with a cases made from the 223,308,30-06 ,7 mm rem mag and other popular calibers you can still make your ammo .This ecomany is only going to support the strongest selling calibers .When the guns changed from smokeless powder from blackpowder the same thing happened. There were a few that made it the 45-70 and the 45 long colt being the most famous of the two.

So in your opinion the .38SPL is poopoo'ed in our day and age?
Implemented in 1886. Loaded for the first months with BP and then switched to smokeless.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

The correct spelling is calibre, not caliber. Sorry I know it will grate with alot of people who were educated in the US but as the word did not originate there the US can not dictate the spelling.

Hamish,

One of the multiple reasons that we threw the Limey bastards off the continent was so we could spell any way we wanted to.

In the US we spell it caliber just like we spell color and many other old English words differently.

If you take the time to speak to a trained linguist you'll find, much to horror of a proper Englishmen that the most correct form of the spoken English language is with the accent of the Midwestern American and that is because we are capable of pronunciation of the letter r which folks affected by a British accent can not.

So in closing since you folks can not properly speak the English language we must assume that you can not spell it properly either. Welcome to the brave new world.

The midwest American you speak of is also called a neutral accent, it is very close to what a large portion of Canadians speak. The neutral accent is most desirable in most forms of American entertainment. In regards to the spelling, I grew up with the old English spelling of certain words like calibre, colour, favour and continue to use it out of habit. A lot of our spellings didn't even originate with the English, they stole it from the French.

And what exactly is the official language of the USA?

Oh yeah they dont have any, so let them spell as they speak, you limey b******s and offspring!

So where do things stand a year later?

The 338 Lapua still looks good as a step up from the 338WM, which remains great. If I want more than 338WM I would probably go with a 338 Lapua since Ruger decided not to neck their 375 Ruger to 338. (Probably too close to the 338RUM in practical hunting terms. See Lapua.)
The 338 RugCompMag is a great elk/moose/forest gun for smaller frames. Ruger sells it in a 13" length of pull, but that will be difficult for creating a solid niche.

416 Rigby still looks good, but so do the 416 Rem and 416 Ruger.

375 Ruger is one great little cartridge that seems to be an up and comer. The brass is unique but a no-brainer that was waiting to happen. I wish it a long run. The elk probably don't.

264/6.5 remains up for grabs, and most medium-priced off-the-shelf rifles provide a commonly available choice of 270win or 7-08 for this niche.

The WSM's are still here lol. Shouldn't those have been dead for many years now, according to many here? Heck even the 7mm is still being offered in new rifles.

Interesting how folks worry about how I spend my money. Never could figure that out...

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:

As we arein such a pedantic mood I wish to correct the spelling on here.

The correct spelling is calibre, not caliber. Sorry I know it will grate with alot of people who were educated in the US but as the word did not originate there the US can not dictate the spelling.

A pedantantic old fart I know but another pet peeve is the use of the word gotten. This word is a bastardisation of the word got.

You have not gotten something, you have aquired something. It is just pure laziness to not use correct grammar so maybe that is why Obama uses this word.

Just a matter of class I suppose

I have too much time on my hands now due to the earthquake so you will have me worrying about things like this a lot more

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Hamish my friend, a Kiwi correcting spelling?

Please note the items in bold above.


In regards to the original subject: I've bought a few guns in modern, "boutique" cartridges (not calibers) such as the 6.5x284 but those were bought with a specific purpose in mind such as F class, 1,000 yard shooting. I never criticize the choice of others to do the same.

I am very pleased to hear that the 338 Win Mag will be around for a long time!
But even if it isn't, I will still have one.

quote:

Heck I take at least two with me for my instate hunting, because if I'm traveling over 100 miles and something happens to my rifle/scope the other 5 sitting in the safe back home don't actually help me that much then! So If I'm dropping a grand plus for an out of state hunt I'm making sure there is at least one back up gun for the group. Mr Murphy does has a way of appearing at the most unoppurtune times.

A glimmer of light in a world of darkness. Two rifles on any hunt and 40 to 60 shells for each rifle in case it has to be re-sighted in. This is especially true if you don't shoot anything but handloads.

This subject comes up over and over again and always with the same results - lines of pure BS. I have a 7WSM and it is a wonderful cartridge. I buy what I think will be good for my purposes, old or new. The 7WSM sits with 7x7's, 280's, 30/06's, etc etc etc. Spend time researching and testing before tearing down. However, I often wonder why a manufacturer does what it does, but is their nickle and they can do as they please. Right or wrong.

I'm still liking my nearly dead 358 Win. I figure that as long as I can find or resize brass and one or two makes of projectiles are available, I can keep it on life support....for a while anyway.

This is another of the issues. Some folks like trying the "Next Big Thing" everytime it come along. Others simply like to stick with the old "Tried And True".

The fact of the matter is however, other than "supposed" intrinsic little changes, that in the Real World of the AVERAGE hungter/shooter, do not provide/produce one tangible/verifiable advantage over the old standbys. It is that simple. That applies to all the gear and gadgets that hit the market.

No matter whether it is a 150 year old cartridge/rifle design or something that is still in developement, bullet placement is what kills animals and nothing else really matters. The average person will not be able to discern any real improvement or result from any carthidge if they are able to place their shots properly and the animals being shot are not going to be in any shape to testify concerning the killing ability of a particular cartridge.

It is a symptom of the Human Condition, find something that will go one step further to negate the short comings of the operator. The weak link has been and always will be the human component.

If a person wants to keep trying all the latest wonder guns that come out, more power to them. Hunting/shooting would be really dull if we only had 1 or 2 choices available. The flip side however is that none of the new comers on the market offer any real, verifiable advantages, for the AVERAGE hunter, over the old standbys.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
The flip side however is that none of the new comers on the market offer any real, verifiable advantages, for the AVERAGE hunter, over the old standbys.

Can't do anything but agree with that. I'm all for people having choice and getting what they want but in the end most stuff doesn't make much difference, at least not in what we in the UK consider a deer legal cartridge.

I often hear about flat shooting cartridges and my old 308Win is considered to be something of a "rainbow" cartridge. Then I look at the ballistic tables and find that my 308 drops half an inch more at 300 yards than one of the flat shooting cartridges! The cross hairs in my scope cover nearly 3 inches at that distance and I've never shot a deer beyond 230 yards. Factor in an imperfect rest and shot to shot variability and, well, at what I consider reasonable deer stalking distances there is sod all difference between the UK deer legal cartridges.

So, it comes down to personal choice and what gives you confidence and as long as you are happy then your choice is a "good thing" but the truth is that you'd have to search pretty long and hard to find something that would be a "bad thing" among the cartridges legal for all UK deer.

The gun folks have taken a page from the car makers. And, I guess, the soap people. Change the colour of the box and call it "new and improved".

Yes but look at all the rare and collectable cartridges that are being produced for future collectors. These are the 38-50 Maynards and 40-70 Peabody What Cheers of the future. What would the collectors of 2100 do without it?

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:

quote:

Stay away from the new caliber of the month club

Got me to thinking:

The newest cartridge I've ever owned was introduced in 1956!!!

My favorite was introduced in about 1890...

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Well first it is not "caliber" it is cartridge.

I hate to break it to you but it is "caliber." That useage also grates hard on my ear; kind of like when a newbie talking about a cartridge refers to it as a "shell" or a "bullet." Common useage, unfortunately, has made it acceptable to refer to say the 30/06 Springfield as a "caliber" rather than a "cartridge." If you don't believe me, just look at what's in print from reputable gun writers who have editors that supposedly know better.

If that's so, the gunwriters and their editors have taken it upon themselves to change the definition of the word caliber, which is:

1.a.
The diameter of the inside of a cylinder.
1.b
The diameter of the bore of a firearm, usu. in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and written as a decimal fraction.
1.c
The diameter of a large projectile in milimeters or inches.
2.
Degree of worth; quality.

Gidday Guys,

As we arein such a pedantic mood I wish to correct the spelling on here.

The correct spelling is calibre, not caliber. Sorry I know it will grate with alot of people who were educated in the US but as the word did not originate there the US can not dictate the spelling.

A pedantantic old fart I know but another pet peeve is the use of the word gotten. This word is a bastardisation of the word got.

You have not gotten something, you have aquired something. It is just pure laziness to not use correct grammar so maybe that is why Obama uses this word.

Just a matter of class I suppose

I have too much time on my hands now due to the earthquake so you will have me worrying about things like this a lot more

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Yes, and all you brit "educated" can continue to mis-pronounce "polyethylene" or more precisely skip the middle third of the word in your pronunciation.

the word is "poly - ethyl - ene

I for sure agree with the philosophy that "It's the Indian, not the arrow". However, I do sometimes like to try something new and/or different. As an old 7mmRM shooter, I also shoot 7mmWSM (multiples of each). I happen to like the 7mmWSM very much. A great round, much maligned, I guess "because it doesn't do anything the 7mmRM doesn't", or something. So where are all the guys that used to condemn the dreaded belted cases? Now I have purchased a Kimber Montana 280AI. Can't hardly wait to get that one running. Don't know why I got it, it doesn't do anything my 7mmRM's or 7mmWSM's don't do already, but, heck, I'm having fun, and the Montana is such a nice lightweight rifle. A lot of redundancy there, don't you think! Guess I like the .284 caliber, or is it calibre?

I don't know if the 204 Ruger will make it, but it is plenty popular in my neighborhood. I'm contemplating getting a 204 Ruger to match my Cooper 54 Phoenix in 22-250.

man i am so screwed.
my last rifle was a ruger 358 win.
the one before that was a remington 8x57
and they have bever produced factory ammo for either my 7x57 ackley or my 7x57 icl.
and that 311x300 savage i picked up for 20 bucks because it was soooo inaccurate where do i get ammo for that?
or my 6.5x57.
and that 8mm lebel rifle that remington re-made
good thing i got a couple of boxes of factory ammo for that one.
or my 351 win.
man i might as well just cut them all up and go get a 270 or sumthin.
i hear 303 and 7.5 swiss stocks make decent fire wood.
i wonder if my 7.7 and 7.65's will burn as good.

quote:

And what exactly is the official language of the USA?

Well, down here in the Southeast we speak perfectly good south American, with no accent. Now, them yankees do tend to talk funny. And loud. And often. But it don't matter, they can all leave and go back up north to Miami for all we care.

I, for one, am making sure I don't drift into the caliber of the month club. Most of my recent guns have been calibers that might have been popular a long time ago. Another 9.3x74, a 6.3x52, and a soon to me 6.5x58. if you really want to see cartridge of the month club, look at English and Continental cartridges at the end of the 1800's and early 1900's. I do have a 22LR and mag, a 223, a 22-250 and a few 06's, but the rest are old, useless, wannabes. 32rf, 257R,30/40,32 Special, 35 whelen, 416T, and 11.7 Danish. But like JudgeG, I have some brass and bullets and will outlive my supply. My thoughts, buy them lay in a supply of brass and bullets and enjoy them. I remember when the 45/70 was useless and guns were worthless.
Bfly

Lamar, I feel for you.

I built a 6.5x57 and a 7x64 last year, I've got a 300RSAUM and a 338Fed in the safe and I've just gone out and bought a 325WSM. All of them are either dead, dying or orphaned according to the 'experts'.

Do I care??? Nuh!!

Why do you need a newer than 7x57 cartridge? Heck why's do you need a cartridge at all? Oh heck, only a plumb crazy sissy needs rifling as it is too slow to load, don't you know? No really what is wrong with a crossbow? Those things will never catch on, what you need is a good old long bow. Long bow? Why in my day we used aytlatyls and were darn proud of it. aytlatyls? Bunch of new-fangled Johnny come latelies. What's wrong with a club? Who needs to throw a stick at all? You ate just a bunch of SHOOTERS and if you were a REAL hunter you would use a club


A club? Clubs are for wimps that cans catch and kill game with their own bare hands them take it back to the cave and toss the entire carcass on the fire

Fire? Wow you lazy bum, you use fire?

At least my post is a bit humorous and doesn't try to tell YOU what to do with YOUR time and money