With the way things are going you are going to see more new calibers fall to the wayside than you have ever seen.This presents the problem how long will they make ammo and what else if anything can you make it from.I have watched the 338 federal be dropped when I think the 338-06 which was better flopped with weatherby.The hot short mags wonder claibers are narrowed down to about the 270wsm and the 300 wsm .The rest are disapearing.I dont see the two marlins 308 and 338 marlins lasting long either as their 450 marlin is also dropped.I think its time to stick to about 1 or 2 caes per caliber.Such as the 223 and 22-250 for the 224 ,the 243 for 243,the 25-06 for 257,the 264 caliber is actually becoming more popular these days I hope the 264 wm comes back but the 6.5-06 is more alot less boom for the caliber but the winner of the 6.5 is not decided yet maybe the 6.5-284,the 270 win is the 270 caliber winner the 7 mm is the 7-08 and the 7 mm rem mag ,the 308 has the most the 30-30,308,30-06 and the 300 wm ,the 8 mm is not popluar at all here ,the 338 is a rising star in hunting calibers here the 338 wm will be around a long time,thenext rising star is the 338 lapula which will become the next all around rifle and the long range sniper rifle of our army and a popular hunting caliber ,the 358 bore is not popular to survive ,the 375 has its good old 375 H&H ,the 416 has the 416 Rem mag as the favorite DGR of Africa replacing the 458 wm,the 458 has the old 45-70 sticking around.I see alot of calibers gone in the next few years but if you pick one of these you will have brass and ammo if its still legal to own in 30 years.
The gun industry has gone through big ups and downs and is now lagging in sales and trys anyway they can to get you to buy the caliber of the month.The 338 Federal is still going to have 308 cases to neck up .The 338 marlin and 308 marlin will be like the 307 winchester and the 356 winchester.Make sure when you decide on a new caliber it can be made by anothwer common brass.When the army chose not to use the 6.8MM it got droped like a hot egg by many and its made from 30 remington cases .I found myself in this boat with my good old 405 win .You can only make the cases from 30-40 krag or 9.3x72 caes .I had to wait till thet start making more 405 cases which they make once a year in small quanity.I have seen too many people sell their good old hunting rifles for the caliber of the month gun.Alot sure do wish they had their old gun.Its fun to get a new gun but I would stick to the most popular cartridge for the caliber these days.

Actually it is an investment oppotunity. Ever see how much they get for a Rem 700 in 6.5 Rem Mag? (Which you can still get brass and ammo for.) I feel lucky to have so many diffrent chambers to try in ready made rifles. Alot of these new rounds will be around enough to find at least brass for for a long while. If you see a cartidge is being dropped and you like it...buy a bunch of brass! I like the WSSMs. They may not be better than anything else, but they are fun to play with. I have alot of new in the bag brass, cause they are gone already. Enjoy the calibur of the month club while it lasts!

I have said it before if you need want and end up buying one of these new and fangaled calibers just make sure you buy eoungh brass to last you and yours a couple of life times.

Other then that have at them they well all work and kill all kind of things.

And some times its just fun to play with some thing new.

Remember all of them where the new round on the block at one time.

quote:

if you need want and end up buying one of these new and fangaled calibers just make sure you buy eoungh brass to last you and yours a couple of life times.

Good advice.....but I'm betting there will never be a time when one can't get brass for anything built on the .30-06 case or the .308 case or even the .300 Win Mag case.....

That said.....having a few hundred brass on hand is never a bad idea!

I want a 277-08.

quote:

Originally posted by Oddbod:
I want a 277-08.

Or a .45-70-06 for me.....

I am surprised that the 9.3X62 is not mentioned as a keeper!

quote:

the next rising star is the 338 lapua which will become the next all around rifle and the long range sniper rifle of our army and a popular hunting caliber

The highlighted bits are tongue in cheek, right??

First there are the articles/reports telling us about the new wonder caliber that is going to revolutionize hunting.
It is quickly followed by the articles/reports that list the obsolete calibers that will vanish by this time next year.
Meanwhile people keep filling a market need by loading ammo or providing components for those calibers. I'm not ready to give up on these "dead" calibers yet. I have two friends with 300 RSAUMs. I got a feeling that they are going to be able to find ammo for a long time. I don't know how many of these Remington made, but I wouldn't be surprised that it is more then the number of 404Js and 416 Rigbys made over the last few years, and rather than dry up, more ammo is available for both of those than since the the old days.
If there is a market, someone will fill it.

If there is a market someone will fill it? Really?

How soon we forget the Obama scare when hardly anything was available. Never-the-less, during that time I was able to acquire a bunch of once fired 270 Winchester brass at a very reasonable price; try doing that with your short magnums, etc.

Grumulkin

Thats funny because i was able to buy factory Remington 150gr 7mm SAUM during the "scare" for 25 dollars a box! It may be a dead cartridge but ammo and rifles are pretty cheap because no one wants em. I laid in a couple hundred cases and im good to go for about a hundred years, after that who gives a hoot

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I am surprised that the 9.3X62 is not mentioned as a keeper!

It's only been out for 106 years, the jury is still out. I hope it survives.

8mm not popular?? Whatever a .30-06 can do, an 8x57 can do, and did it 1st. I don't own a single .30-06, but have 4 8x57's, hmmm.
The .260 is really catching on w/ hunters around here, the .325wsm also. These are the same guys that looked down on the 6.5x55 and 8x57 for years.
2 Months ago, I bought 2 boxes of Prvi 196gr 8x57, and 2 boxes of 139gr 6.5x55 for $12.95 each. I'd love to see that w/ .325wsm or .260. These same experts are happy w/ $35.00+ per box.
Oh, and the feel that if you are going on a hunt away from home, Make sure you can buy extra ammo because 20 rounds may not be enough, so .308 and .30-06 are all you should take on a trip.

While most any cartridge is going to maintain some cult following, your argument is sound. How may of you are shooting your 22Auto rifles? Taken your 38S&W Long out lately? In 20 years many of these super short/ super long/ in-between cartridges may indeed be footnotes but you will still be able to buy or make brass if it is derived from a common cartridge like the 30-06

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
If there is a market someone will fill it? Really?

How soon we forget the Obama scare when hardly anything was available. Never-the-less, during that time I was able to acquire a bunch of once fired 270 Winchester brass at a very reasonable price; try doing that with your short magnums, etc.

During that scare I had to wait for 30-06Win and Lapua brass but didnt have to for 25WSSM.

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I have watched the 338 federal be dropped when I think the 338-06 which was better flopped with weatherby.

In my opinion the flop of the 338/06 in Wby is typical of modern managments. A Wby Ultralight would be about twice the price of a Model 70 I reckon a real safe bet would be a keen 338/06 man who was going to spend a fair bit on his rifle would be a fan of the M70 or M98.

The problem with a lot of the other calibres you mention is they simply won't bear a high enough market price (ammo/components/rifle) to be profitable given the poor volume.

For example, a 338 Federal will not bear anywhere near the pricing that goes with a 30-378 or 338-378 and so the 338 Federal needs to sell lots of ammo/components and rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by fgulla:
Grumulkin

Thats funny because i was able to buy factory Remington 150gr 7mm SAUM during the "scare" for 25 dollars a box! It may be a dead cartridge but ammo and rifles are pretty cheap because no one wants em. I laid in a couple hundred cases and im good to go for about a hundred years, after that who gives a hoot

That does somewhat surprise me. It is somewhat similar though to me and my Encore 308 Marlin Express barrels I got cheap. Somewhat before the scare I managed to round up 1,000 pieces of once fired 308 Marlin Express brass with which I should be able to wear out a couple of barrels if I really try.

I think some of the new cartridges are here to stay like:

204 Ruger

308 Marlin Express

375 Ruger

300 WSM

The ones I think will die an early death are:

338 Federal

30 TC (about the most worthless uneeded cartridge I can think of).

Most of the SSM and RSM cartridges.

Here are a few dead mackerals and a few to come mackerals thats you should stay away from the 7mm and 300 rem short mags ,the 223wssm and 243 wssms, 25 wssm ,7 mm wsm ,450 marlin , 376 , 300 ruger and 338 Ruger short mags ,480 Rugers ,6.8 mm ,308marlin and 338 marlin .It just really sucks when you cant get ammo such as the 5 mm rem mag they had to wait 30 something years for new ammo with no way to reload or shoot.I dont know why these companies insist to use cases that are impossible to find such as the 6.8 mm is made from the 30 remington.The 204 came from the 222 rem magium instead of the 223 which would have made alot more scence.If you stay with a cases made from the 223,308,30-06 ,7 mm rem mag and other popular calibers you can still make your ammo .This ecomany is only going to support the strongest selling calibers .When the guns changed from smokeless powder from blackpowder the same thing happened.There were a few that made it the 45-70 and the 45 long colt being the most famous of the two.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I am surprised that the 9.3X62 is not mentioned as a keeper!

It's only been out for 106 years, the jury is still out. I hope it survives.

And, Ruger is offering it in this years caliber of the month line up. Another flash in the pan that has only lasted a little over 100 years.

What do I know anyway? Having taken a brand new Remington .270 Win and rebarreling it unfired into a 338-06AI. Another flash in the pan? Maybe but, I don't really care. 30-06 and 35 Whelen brass are here to stay as are .338 bullets.

I agree with the thought that if ya want it, just
make sure you will be able to have the ammo for
the life of the barrel. I have a Tactical 20 and
a 7mm WSM. Reasoning for the Tac 20 was that the
.223 brass should be around long after I'm
planted. Got 500 cases for the 7WSM, thinking
it would last the life of the barrel. From the
amount of loads I'm getting from the brass, it
just might last the life of two barrels.

quote:

,the 358 bore is not popular to survive

Well it lives on in many parts of the hunting world and is a 30 cal killer..358W,35 Whelen,358NM 358 STA continue to blast their way past many other calibres.

I was given my first rifle in 1959 ,a 22 RF. Purchased a Win Mdl 70 270 in 1952. Got a Browning A 5 12 Ga in 1956 and a Sako 222 Rem the same year. Added a S&W 38 Special in 1956.In 1961 got a Rem 300 H&H Mag rifle. I dident need an other firearm to hunt small game and varmints, deer, pronghorn, elk,and birds. But over the years it was fun getting firearms that used new cartridges as they were developed. --- Stay Away From The New Caliber -- You can miss out on a lot of fun if you do. When ever I got a new cartridge firearm I would get reloading dies for it and 200 ea empty cases and more cases later if I heard that the round was not popular. I have shot prairie dogs with 12 diffferent round, deer with 8, elk with 3. I could have shot them all with what I had in 1962 but I would missed out on a lot of fun.

The calibers I have used are .177, .204, .223, .224, .243, .257, .264. .277,.308,and .338 . As the case capacity increases per a given caliber the velocity ft/sec ratio decreases per grain of powder. One can compare grains of water a newly offered round will hold with older rounds of the some caliber and have a good idea how fast it will put out a bullet. But there advantages and disatvantages to case shape design.

While for the most part I agree with the idea of don't sell the old 06 for the new fangled wizz bang cartridge,....Most of the guys here have more than one rifle,...some with duplicates of the same cartrige! So while good advice for the novice or average Joe, doesn't really apply to most forum members?

As for those that subcribe to the thought only buy a popular cartridge because if you run out of ammo on your once in a lifetime hunt in the bookdocks and you can't get a box of superduper magnums there? My question is why are you only bringing ONE gun??? Heck I take at least two with me for my instate hunting, because if I'm traveling over 100 miles and something happens to my rifle/scope the other 5 sitting in the safe back home don't actually help me that much then! So If I'm dropping a grand plus for an out of state hunt I'm making sure there is at least one back up gun for the group. Mr Murphy does has a way of appearing at the most unoppurtune times.

I shoot too many wildcat or obscure factory rounds to worry about this or that being available. If you like it, buy it & handload for it. Then it doesn't matter if it's available. I won't give up my 338-06, 260ai, 404jefffery, 338x74K or 7mm Dakota for easier to get factory equiv jobs everyone else shoots. The only reason I would buy a 270 or 06 is to rebarrel it to something else.

Quote from vapodog: "Good advice.....but I'm betting there will never be a time when one can't get brass for anything built on the .30-06 case or the .308 case or even the .300 Win Mag case"..... (and 233 Remington / 5.56 military brass).

If you keep that in mind, there is cartridge of the month and then there is new cartridge of the month. I would not be scared buying this month's latest whiz bang wonder, as long as it can be formed from one of the 'foundation' cartridges above.

Let's face it, for 338-06 to be totally unavailable means there is no 30-06 brass available, and we are in BIGGGG trouble.

Now if you buy something chambered for example, 30 Remington AR (unique non-standard rim size), be afraid, be very afraid.

Piper106

quote:

Stay away from the new caliber of the month club

Got me to thinking:

The newest cartridge I've ever owned was introduced in 1956!!!

My 5mm rimfire sat in waiting for nearly 30 years with me thinking I would never shoot it again....

Then new run ammo....wow

I guess I would question anything really "going away" now. With computerization and CNC machining, it is now easier than ever to make things. As long as its legal (and maybe even after that) someone will make it.

Now, don't get me wrong, the stuff will still be quite expensive compared with standard stuff, but look at any of the specialty reloading supply shops- .401 Win Self loading? Looks like you can find brass at Graf's... 8mm Kurz? ditto. It may well be that finding brass with a .338 Federal headstamp will be difficult- because it will be cheaper to make your ammo from .308 Win. But someone like superior ammo will certainly make you a few boxes for the kind of money that Federal charges for a box of .416 Rigby.

I think with the new manufacturing methods you will see lots of "micro" manufacturers who make all sorts of gun supplies coming up- as prices still climb anyhow.

I couldn't care less how much money anyone else spends in whatever way he sees fit; he earned it so it's his to do as he wishes; more power to him!

I've never been a crowd follower nor am I swayed by marketing hype and magazine articles. But a lot of people make a good living pandering to those who are ... so what? The .30-30, .30-06, .270, .243, .223, .22-250 and .22RF will be around as long as metallic cartridges are. That's not all I like but we can do anything neeeded with those so it really doesn't much matter about the rest.

Well first it is not "caliber" it is cartridge.

Second, unless you are talking about some very specialized cartridges there really hasn't been any material improvement other than the 270 Win in 1925, 308 Win in 1952, and the 338 Win Mag in 1958.

Everything else has just been me too...but lots of them have stuck around.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Well first it is not "caliber" it is cartridge.

I hate to break it to you but it is "caliber." That useage also grates hard on my ear; kind of like when a newbie talking about a cartridge refers to it as a "shell" or a "bullet." Common useage, unfortunately, has made it acceptable to refer to say the 30/06 Springfield as a "caliber" rather than a "cartridge." If you don't believe me, just look at what's in print from reputable gun writers who have editors that supposedly know better.

yeah.. screw all that new fangled stuff.. there's nothing wrong with a 8x57 ..

caliber and cartridge designations are arbitrary, and are used, wrongly, interchangably ..

seriously.. a .44 magnum is NOT .44x ANYTHING . its a .429 bullet .. same for .444 marlin ...

a 308 is smaller than a 303 and a 300 is the same size as a 308, SOME TIMES

a 404 isn't 404 ANYTHING.. not bore, groove, or bullet... .424 bullet, .412-.414 groove ...

a 38 special is a 35 caliber ... and a 38 is weaker than a 357, but the same size

a 375 is the same thing as a 378? and 376? and sometimes the same as a 38 .. but that 38 caliber isn't the .356 bullet of a 38special .. no, its thee .375 (to .382) bullet used in the 38-55 and .375 winchester...

a .223 remington ISNT .223 .. its .224...

neither is a .222 rem .. or a 22 hornet .. the former is .224, the larger could be .222 to .224...

it goes on and on ...

cartridge is the correct name for the ammunication, caliber is bore.. frequently misused .. like centrifigal force .. commonly used, but just plain wrong

There is a great advantage to being 64 years old. I can buy any "new" caliber I want, get a few boxes of ammo and reloading dies and by the time I need to replace what I've bought and used, I'll be dead.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
There is a great advantage to being 64 years old.

From my viewpoint, the only advantage to being 64 years old ....... is that I would be 6 years younger.

quote:

I would be 6 years younger.

Ditto. But, 70 IS a valid reason to be crotchety with foolishness and impatient with dreamy, touchy-feely "PC" ideas. (GO gov. Walker! )

DGR416:

I have to disagree with your assessment of the .416 caliber. I know that Winchester has recently resurrected the .416 Remingtion but a couple of year ago the caliber had become moribund. I think that the only .416 Remington you could buy was from the Remington custom shop. Perhaps things will change now but I think the king of the .416s was, is, and always will be the .416 Rigby.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Well first it is not "caliber" it is cartridge.

I hate to break it to you but it is "caliber." That useage also grates hard on my ear; kind of like when a newbie talking about a cartridge refers to it as a "shell" or a "bullet." Common useage, unfortunately, has made it acceptable to refer to say the 30/06 Springfield as a "caliber" rather than a "cartridge." If you don't believe me, just look at what's in print from reputable gun writers who have editors that supposedly know better.

If that's so, the gunwriters and their editors have taken it upon themselves to change the definition of the word caliber, which is:

1.a.
The diameter of the inside of a cylinder.
1.b
The diameter of the bore of a firearm, usu. in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and written as a decimal fraction.
1.c
The diameter of a large projectile in milimeters or inches.
2.
Degree of worth; quality.

Hey you guys forgot to mention the uncrowned kings of redundant BS no need cartridges.

The Ruger RCM's in .338 and .300.

I like the 300 RUM.