empire, dakota, cooper....thinking of having a medium bore built. which has the best combo of beauty/ accuracy?

No contest, EMPIRE.

I like Cooper but don't think they are in the same league with the other two. I like Dakota but don't trust they will be in business long enough to complete a rifle ordered now. Empire, nice looking rifles on the website, but I honestly don't know much about them except they switched actions a few years ago from the Legacy sports mauser which needed much work to something different. They look nice for a semi custom.

I think you could do much better with a custom gunsmith.

Terry

Cooper is the answer if you don't have to have
CRF. Absolutley beuatiful, and uncannily accurate, have had some of all of these, and Copper stomps the heck out of the other two.

custom gunsmith you'd recommend? i live in southern connecticuit/ny area...

Cooper is the answer if you don't have to have
CRF

What does CRF stand for?

controlled round feed

Thanks

Empire is hands down the best...

Don't forget that there are many great custom gunsmith that can build you a custom rifle thats probably going to be better than any of the manufactured custom guns, but you have to pick them with care.

Dakota will likely be around for a while, if their new business plan works. Kokesh is no longer CEO. It remains to be seen what the new guy will do.

I have a LH Dakota 76 in 7mm Rem. Took me a year to get it and when I finally did, I tried at least ten, more like fifteen, ammo brands, bullet types and weights and it wouldn't consistently shoot the guaranteed MOA with any of them. I had several conversations with them about it, sent the rifle back, and they rebarreled it. Now, it shoots 3/8" groups with factory 160 TSX's and MOA with everything else.

They had the production manager call me and he was very helpful, handled my problem personally and kept me updated, so I am finally satisfied.

I would buy another Dakota if I could afford one, because they seem to be getting things straghtened out. The rifle is beautiful with a great trigger and I love to shoot it. I'm thinking about taking it to Tanzania next year as my plains game rifle, as I've had remarkable results with the 7mm Rem on prior hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by lhotaal:
empire, dakota, cooper....thinking of having a medium bore built. which has the best combo of beauty/ accuracy?

Define beauty.
To me, beauty is a 1" group at 300 yards...

For a custom gunsmith in Southern CT./NY you coudln't do better than Mitch Schultz at Gunsmithing LTD in Fairfield behind the Ruger Plant

Empire rifles are nice, but not $5k-12k+ nice.

Get the Cooper.

I'd get the Cooper or a custom made rifle--you can get one for the price of an Empire.

You guys do realize that "Empire" has never built one single solitary rifle right?

They have contract work done by various contract gunsmiths and then sell them under the "Empire" name.

Kind of like an Army Navy or a Sears and Roebuck rifle.

i did not realize empire subbed out all of their work. i have a buddy who just bought a lefty in 375 H&H. one that a flake did not pay for and they had around the shop. it cost $6.3k. friend has not yet taken delivery. he lives in london. hope it shoots well, not that it matters, he is a horrible shot, i want to get some time on it.

Empire does sub out the work. The actions (built elsewhere), barrels (bought on the open market) are put together in Texas, stock work is done in New Hampshire. I hope to see the "plant" this year and learn what is going on. Looks like a great rifle, but am not sure about the process.

At least some of the stock work is subbed out in South Dakota to a couple of different independent guys.

I am not saying that Empire Rifles are bad only that there is no Empire Rifle factory. It is simply a brand name and a clearing house.

I would say Ruger, Browning, Winchester, Remington.

well, empire and dakota are in one clase... cooper another.

without a doubt, of the choices given, and in calibers I would have..

EMPIRE...

if I wanted a benchgun, I would call Butch Lambert

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
Dakota will likely be around for a while, if their new business plan works. Kokesh is no longer CEO. It remains to be seen what the new guy will do.

I have a LH Dakota 76 in 7mm Rem. Took me a year to get it and when I finally did, I tried at least ten, more like fifteen, ammo brands, bullet types and weights and it wouldn't consistently shoot the guaranteed MOA with any of them. I had several conversations with them about it, sent the rifle back, and they rebarreled it. Now, it shoots 3/8" groups with factory 160 TSX's and MOA with everything else.

They had the production manager call me and he was very helpful, handled my problem personally and kept me updated, so I am finally satisfied.

I would buy another Dakota if I could afford one, because they seem to be getting things straghtened out. The rifle is beautiful with a great trigger and I love to shoot it. I'm thinking about taking it to Tanzania next year as my plains game rifle, as I've had remarkable results with the 7mm Rem on prior hunts.

How is Dakota doing today - have they survived the recession?
Has Empire fallen on bad times?

Warrior

"I talked to the president of Wilson barrels that bought Cooper, at the SHOT show.

I'm convinced that Dan Cooper is out of the business.

Cooper Firearms makes a helluva rifle. I would not hesitate to buy one, with a clear conscience."

... Steve

I have become a little disillusioned by the "big name custom makers". They demand really high prices but yet everything is often subcontracted out. I am a fan of the new Kimber rifles. They are as custom as most custom makers and they cost a lot less. I have several and really love the new 84L in 30-06.

For the original question: Empire

Best production model rifle?

Various postings confirm that Cooper rifles are very well-made, nicely finished and accurate.
This grouping shot here is magnificent.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...821090301#7821090301

Can some one decribe there actions and bolts to me as to their design features, etc.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
How is Dakota doing today - have they survived the recession?

REMINGTON is doing great - sales combined have never been higher

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

Has Empire fallen on bad times?

resession - they don't have the pockets of a remington

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:

Warrior

may i throw my 2 cents in here? i've been to the empire office in NH. haven't been to Dakota's place. i'm putting together a rifle that will cost less than 1/3 of an empire and it will function as well or better if the reputations of the people working on it are true.

the dakotas i've held seemed awfully nice but neither felt any better than a tuned up m70 by gene simillion i recently held. a properly tuned m70 shuts like a bank vault. same as a well tuned mauser 98.

for my money at the moment i'll stick with the m70 and will certainly report in word and picture form when my rifle is done.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
for my money at the moment i'll stick with the m70 and will certainly report in word and picture form when my rifle is done.

Who are you using? PM me if you prefer. Thanks

Remington Acquires Dakota Arms (and Nesika Bay)

Remington Arms Company, Inc. through its fully owned subsidiary DA Acquisitions LLC, has entered into a purchase agreement to acquire certain assets of Dakota Arms, LLC including the Dakota, Nesika Bay Precision, Miller Arms, and Dan Walter brands. The transaction closed on June 5, 2009.

This is the latest major acquisition by Remington Arms, which acquired Bushmaster Firearms, Marlin Firearms, and DPMS in 2007. Remington Arms is owned by Cerberus Capital Management, a private holding company. The acquisition of Dakota Arms is another example of the increasing consolidation of the American gun industry. Dakota Arms had suffered from over-ambitious growth plans and its revenues failed to meet investors’ expectations as Dakota never really developed a strong customer-base for its premium hunting rifles. Dakota tried to become the “Lexus/Mercedes” of the rifle market, but the plan didn’t work. Dakota’s rifles were much more expensive than Remington or Browning products, yet lacked the accuracy and craftsmanship of the high-grade, true custom rifles. “Factory rifles at custom rifle prices” was not a good business model.

Established in 1982 and headquartered in Sturgis, South Dakota, Dakota Arms manufacturers custom and semi-custom rifles for the sporting markets. The Dakota brands include Nesika, Miller Arms and Dan Walter. Nesika Bay Precision actions (at one time) were highly respected for their engineering and build quality; Miller Arms is known for the reliability and performance of its single-shot actions and custom rifles. Dakota Arms is based in the Black Hills of South Dakota and currently employs 35 people.

“I am pleased to announce that Dakota Arms is joining Remington and the Freedom Group of companies,” stated Ted Torbeck, CEO of Remington Arms Company, Inc. and Freedom Group Inc. “Dakota Arms is an icon within the industry and its fine products exemplify quality, craftsmanship and attention to detail. Dakota is the perfect compliment to our industry-leading family of brands. We look forward to continue to develop and expand the Dakota brand and thank all its employees for their continued dedication and success of Dakota Arms.”

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by JabaliHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
for my money at the moment i'll stick with the m70 and will certainly report in word and picture form when my rifle is done.

Who are you using? PM me if you prefer. Thanks

Using Lee Christianson for metal work (he posts as Redneck on 24hourcampfire.com), Pac Nor Super Match Grade SS barrel and Charley Santoni (aka CASII here and 24hourcampfire) for stock job (Echols Legend), cerakote, and using a Wiebe bottom metal unit.

Jeff

I don't own an Empire or Dakota but just picked up a Cooper. I am quite pleased with it. It shoots as advertised and the fit and finish is flawless. For the money I would recommend one and you could probably get two Coopers (or more) for what you would pay for one of the others.