Due to a debate on another forum, I have a question for the AR membership.

What is the overall opinion of the Winchester Short Magnums, and are the 270 WSM and the 300 WSM the best of the lot.

Also, will these cartridges ever reach the popularity level that they were touted for?

Duck!! Here it comes!

I never warmed up to any of them.. they just did the same as everything else in a different package...

if I had to pick one, if say I won a free rifle chambered in one, and I planned on keeping it.. my pick would be the 7mm WSM...

I toyed with the idea of building a 6.5 WSSM but after research on it, I found it didn't do a darn thing a 260 wouldn't do... so why waste the time and effort...

Don't take the question wrong.

The subject came up about the WSM's, and I just want to see what people's opinions are that possbibly have a lot more experience with the cartridges than I or the folks on the other forum may or do have with them.

I am fairly neutral, my only hang ups, are availability of ammo if a person does not reload/handload, and do the WSM's produce better results than the standard cartridges already in existance.

Is the 270 WSM really better than the 270 Winchester or the 300 WSM better than the 300 Winchester Mag.

WSMs?
Not needed at all!

wsm's any questions?

Crazyhorse--Here's my .02 cents worth

I bought a .300 WSM last year. A Remington 700 LSS. Personally, I think it's a great combo. Pretty efficient cartridge. Good velocity with less kick than a .300 Win Mag(might even be less than a 30-06). There are a couple downsides: 1. My rifle feeds poorly- that short, fat case is sometimes hard to advance the second case. Actually I've never had trouble in the woods-just when I'm taking my time. 2. The magezine is short-- I worked up a great load (It shot 1 5/8" at 300 yards) only to find out they wouldn't fit in the magezine. Part of that problem (besides my not checking) was using 168 grain TSX's-the fine print in the Barnes info says to use their 165's for WSM's. The 165's have a shorter ogive radius so you can get them closer to the lands. My rifle is just coming back from the smith (action truing and pillar bedding-he says he worked on the feed rails,too. Hope to pick it up tomorrow. All in all I'd buy the .300 WSM again. I like it.
Stu

Never ever after squeezing the trigger on a .300 WinMag did I think to myself "That was pretty sweet, but if I could only have all this in a short action rifle my life would be complete "

You guessed it, I don't own one. If it trips your trigger that's fine with me. Life is too short to be too concerned with it.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

What is the overall opinion of the Winchester Short Magnums,About as nececessary as tits on a boar hog! and are the 270 WSM and the 300 WSM the best of the lot.Beats the ppe-diddle out of me.

Also, will these cartridges ever reach the popularity level that they were touted for?That's a joke? Right?"When Dunkees fly"

roger

Thanks for the responses folks.

The debate on the other site got out of hand and got locked down.

The gist of the whole thing was, that I had made a statement that the WSM's had not lived up to the touted popularity they were supposed to have, and in fact had been declining in popularity since fairly shortly after they came out.

I don't own one, never have, of course I have never owned a 270 Win. either.

None of which means that I think they are not good guns and not good choices for someone that likes them, they are just nothing that flips my switch, just like my choice of the 35 Whelen and 375 H&H as everyday hunting rifles is not for everybody.

it is funny also to note that while
the winchester rounds get all the press
that the remington sa's which make more sense
and are a better designed cartridge are pushed
aside.
if i ever do find a 7mm rem. saum not made by rem.
it will disappear in a cloud of dust.
and probably a 30 would suffer he same fate.

I really wanted a lightweight Kimber 8400, so I bought one in .300 WSM. Though I got it more for the rifle than the cartridge, I've been real pleased with the performance of the WSM. It's considerably more pleasant to shoot than the .300 Win. I had a few years ago, thought that could be chocked up to a stock that fits me better. Who knows? I like it, and I'll continue to kill stuff with it.

quote:

Originally posted by DesertRam:
I really wanted a lightweight Kimber 8400, so I bought one in .300 WSM. Though I got it more for the rifle than the cartridge, I've been real pleased with the performance of the WSM. It's considerably more pleasant to shoot than the .300 Win. I had a few years ago, thought that could be chocked up to a stock that fits me better. Who knows? I like it, and I'll continue to kill stuff with it.

This type of application fits the WSM's to a "T".

My turn to stir?

I decided to buy a rifle to replace the 30-06 that was stolen some time ago. I came across a used Blaser R93 in 300WSM. I looked over the reloading data and found that I easily could download to '06 performance levels if I wanted. So I bought it. But not because I thought it matched or bettered the 300 Win mag. Just that, if I wanted, I could pump up the speed for more flat-shooting terrain than here in PA. Or have the powder capacity for heavy for caliber bullets.

The Blaser feeds the 2 shots in the magazine unerringly. Accuracy is MOA with the half dozen bullets I have tried so far. I like it so much I just bought another barrel for it in 6.5-284 Norma.

I figure it's about as good a takedown gun for most all North American species.

They are just another solution for which there was no problem

Rich Elliott

I own several 7RMs and a couple 300WMs. I bought into the hype of the SMs and picked up a 300WSM and a 300SAUM. The WSM was in a lightweight Savage WW rifle and kicked like a mule, it recoiled much more than my 300WMs and was only slightly lighter. The SAUM on the other hand was in a Sendero SF and recoils mildly and shoots very accurately.

The cons out weigh the pros for the SMs IMO. The main things I don't like is they don't feed as well as I'd like and the mag length is terribly short. If I were to build a SM it would be on a LA, which would defeat the purpose.

They also will not hang with the 300WM in terms of velocity IME, they are inbetween the 300WM and 30-06.

Nothing wrong with them at all, but my advice to someone that wants Mag performance is to go with the real deal. If you want a fast 270, get a 270 Wea, 7mm, get a 7RM, 300, get the WM, etc.

While some prefer SAs, I simply have never noticed the difference while hunting.

They will probably fade with time.

BTW, here's 3 consective groups during load developement for the SAUM:


And a few from the WSM:


One of my 300WMs(a 700P) will out do them both

Reloader

As noted other places on this forum, I have a duo of .264WSM and .338WSM. I like them both, have had great accuracy, but would not chamber for them again. Why? No particular reason other than I might find something else to play with. I do like the short action used for these calibers.

I do not like the 325wsm.

I never thought I would own a wsm until one came up for sale locally in a Winchester in 270wsm. The shape of the cartridge and accuracy are both conversation starters. Although I got it primarily for varmint hunting....my 280 rem,.30-06, .338 win mag, .58 cal muzz, and Mathews Drenalin get the big game.

I've given up on deer hunting with anything less then .284dia lead...

I see no reason to limit my self to 3 rounds in the mag when I can have 5 in it,that will do the same.




cal30

They really were not needed, the afterbirth from a Winchester bean counter, but the mama ate it I think, anyway they are deader n a doornail!

I have the other rifles not the WSMs. I would not trade either.

Really good question. I don't think they will reach the popularity they were hyped to. If any of them are going to be around I would think the 270wsm and 300 wsm will make it.

I bought a browning 300 wsm a few years back at a banquet (the main reason being the price was right) and I have been happy with it. I have used it in Africa 3 times, down in texas on exotics, and on whitetails. Never had any problems and shoots like a dart. I enjoy hunting with it, but didn't drink the wsm kool aid.

If it works for you and kills game, use it.

Not only do I not own a 'short' magnum I have never even SEEN one in person. I also don't own any long or even intermediate 'magnums' other that the 375H&H which I will admit I am enamored of. I personally have never seen any reason at all for anything other than the more or less old fashioned regular cartridges. I have an 06 and a 30/40 and that takes care of most anything the 375 is not needed for. I did ONCE own a 300Win Mag but it kicked too much and didn't shoot as well as my 06 so I sold it. I have never seen a REAL need for any of them except the overiding need for something 'new and different' that most of us occaisonally have.

NOOOOO on all accounts.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
Not only do I not own a 'short' magnum I have never even SEEN one in person. I also don't own any long or even intermediate 'magnums' other that the 375H&H which I will admit I am enamored of. I personally have never seen any reason at all for anything other than the more or less old fashioned regular cartridges. I have an .270 win and a 35. Whelen and that takes care of most anything the 375 is not needed for. I have never seen a REAL need for any of them except the overiding need for something 'new and different' that most of us occaisonally have.

Exactly!

Well I bought a Browning Stalker .300 WSM the 2nd year they available for my son while he was in the UAE. I played with it for 6 months and it never did shoot as well was I thought it should. But he liked it and has killed a bunch of deer and other game with it.

I also worked with 2 other WSMs for 2 of my young friends. And they did shoot as well as these guys thought they should.
From what I’ve seen it is the young guys that are buying them.

IMO as long as the WSMs makeup 5%+ of sales they will be around.

I generally don’t have much use for a magnum but I have owned a few.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
WSMs?
Not needed at all!

Vapo - I don't disagree with your response, but have to add that I feel that way about virtually all cartridges put on the market after about 1937.

Quickly will add that even though not needed, I have lots of the '40s to '90s cartridges to fool around with. Am currently loading and/or have been loading 100+ different chamberings.

Personally, I have no particular yen for a .270 WSM or any of the WSSM, But there are some others I hope to have or build, a couple made by whoever is using Winchester's name these days, and more that will be fresh from my excessively imaginitive imagination and my own workshop. (A prudent guy wouldn't live about half way between PTG and JGS.)

Matter of fact, I really like that .300 WSM cartridge case for putzing around with spare actions that seem to keep being produced in litters in the back corners of my vault.

In response to the question asked, No, I don't think the cartridges will all survive, but I both believe and hope the .300WSM will. I don't wanna lose that brass source.

The guys that shoot way out there with custom made rifles really like the 7wsm and the 168 and 180gr berger bullets. I would say it is one of the most talked about and popular chamberings for the guys on www.snipershide.com right now. GA Precision and others build a ton of rifles in this caliber for this purpose. My 280 Montgomery (a 416 rigby blown out with very little body taper shortened to wsm length with a 30degree shoulder and longer neck with no rebated rim) should work even better as it holds about 10 more grains of powder than the wsm

Well, I'm going to stir the pot a bit as well by ask why the need for the 270 Winchester now with 270 WSM on the racks and shelves?

WSMs may have their place at the hunting table just like most of the calibers that came before them. I think the concept is good. But I don't have one.

It really depends on who you ask. Jim Borden is a huge fan of the 300 WSM. So if you take his opinion to heart, then this particular short mag is a winner.

I think the differences in rifle wt, which is part of the argument in favor of short actions, is about as relative as a rifle with a 24" bbl v. one with a 26" bbl.

Hi CHC:

Well I am a rifle looney, and like all kinds of rifles and calibers.

I never felt the NEED for any particular rifle caliber, and I do have many. My PA deer caliber of choice for many years was the good old 308 Winnie.

Wanting to play with a new caliber I figured what the hell and bought a Model 70 SS in 270 WSM. I always wanted to try a 270 but never bothered.

I bought three boxes of Winchester ammo, 130 grain, 140 grain and 150 grain and guess what. They ALL shot sub MOA. Then I decided to try the 130's on PA whitetail, I shot 4 bucks in 4 years and not one took another step after they were hit. Good shooting sure, but boom flops did not happen like this with my 308's or even the 30-06's.

Long story short, I LOVE this caliber, do we NEED it, of course not. But it shoots great, shorter action, and I love the speed of the 130's .... I even bought a new Sako Finlight SS in a 270 WSM, I like the caliber that much.

If it dosent't sell well, how come almost every rifle maker has it as a caliber in their line up. Dead as a door nail, I don't think so.

If I all reday had a 270 Winnie I would not have opted for the 270 WSM, but it is one HELL of a caliber.

Regards... PA Hunter..

The only thing I dislike about the WSMs is that the five I have are very boring to shoot. Every conncoction that I stuff together at the loading bench shoots under an inch and most less than half that.The 300WSM seems to be a little more accurate than my 270WSMs but that may just be me rather than the round.

I have two Sako 300WSMs one Sako 270WSM and a 270WSM Blaser barrel and a 300WSM Blaser barrel that I hardly shoot as there is no need, I know I can whip up some excellently accurate hunting ammo in a jiffy anytime I decide to take one hunting.

I guess that if I did not enjoy working up loads or constantly testing them at the range I would probably hunt with nothing else.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Due to a debate on another forum, I have a question for the AR membership.

What is the overall opinion of the Winchester Short Magnums, and are the 270 WSM and the 300 WSM the best of the lot.

Also, will these cartridges ever reach the popularity level that they were touted for?

I got a 300 WSM, it's nice, at one time I wanted to make a whole series based on the case, from 6.5 to 475. I got over it and never built past the 300WSM, which is going to become an action donor. I played with a 300 H&H and can't believe I over looked that beauty! She's perfect!!

If you really need a WSM, find someone with a Browning A-Bolt. They feed those cases rather slick.

Bought a Tikka T3 in 300 WSM awhile back. Must say I am very impressed with the out of the box accuracy of the 300 WSM in the T3. The feeding of the 300 WSM in the T3 has been flawless so far.

quote:

Also, will these cartridges ever reach the popularity level that they were touted for?

Don't really know, I don't worry about such things life is to short. Shoot what ever you feel comfortable with in your hunting conditions.

I hear all the naysayers but I have gone to a several deer hunting facilities in the last few years and I have seen a lot of short mags. I bought a 270 and 300 short mag in Sako Finnlights and love them. Light to carry and they shoot lights out. Probably the people yelling "never" the loudest are those that also hated the 375 Ruger. If it's new it must be bad! Since I got my two Finnlights all my other guns stay in the safe.

I agree with Eliott: WSMs are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Moroever, you can't fit as many in the magazine. Lou

I think there is a place for the 300 WSM, but not any of the others.

Don

I went to buy a Kimber 30-06, it was too long, and looked shad bellied, someone handed me the 8400 in 300WSM it felt good in my hands so I bought it. It feeds fine, shoots fine and looks good. Nosler is said to use the 300WSM as a test cartridge for accuracy testing in 30 cal bullets. That is what I read somewhere and don't have any proof of it. When I first got mine I was loading it to the gills, now I give it a minimum load of RL19 and think of it as a short-fat 30-06.

I've always thought they're overated!

A friend of mine has a a-bolt in 270 wsm. too much bark and recoil for what little extra you get. The 7mm rem and 300 winnie have their strangleholds.

I think they'll fade away and die. While we're on the subject, I think the .17 and .204 will follow the same road.

I have a Model 70 7WSM, it shot <MOA out of the box with with Hornady 139gr Interbonds over 63 grs of RL 22. Have tighenned the groups with several other loadings. I have never been bothered by having only three rounds in the mag. I chose the 7 over the 270 and 300 because I really am a 7 MM fan.