Howdy all, first time poster here. I can tell you a bit about myself so you know who I am! I am a 32 year old teacher who loves hunting and fishing.I began reloading about 5 years ago primarily to save money (but also because i shoot a 260 remington). I live right in the heart of Pennsylvania, and hunt primarily deer and mostly for meat.
Now to my main question. I am getting a 358 Winchester built off a 98 Mauser action. It is the real deal with a Lothar Walther barrel in either 22 or 24 inches (14 twist). I am looking for ideas on what bullet to use for this gun. Use will be primarily whitetail, with most shots being inside 100 yards. There may be an opportunity to shoot at 200, but I would say that is my max yardage. I am looking for something that hits hard, and leaves a good blood trail. Since I hunt for meat, I am not a fan of a lot of meat loss (like a 7mm mag on a doe at 30 yards with a Winchester ballistic tip. Don't ask me how i know!). I prefer full penetration with a good blood trail. I was thinking of the 200 Hornady SP, but was afraid they may explode on impact on close shots. I am leaning towards the Sierra 225 GK, or maybe the speer 220 grain flat point. I am trying to stay away from expensive bullets (<$.50 per bullet)
I plan on using Ramshot powders, and would like decent speeds. This makes me think that anything under 220 grain may be to thinly constructed.
Any more info needed, please ask! So, what would you recommend? Actual experience would be a plus here!

James:

I don't own a .358 Win but I am a big .308 Win fan and have shot a ton of deer with the Hornady 165 gr SST. Shot two deer this year with it, the second one giving me complete penetration. First one took out the top of the heart and he was dead right there.

Since the .358 Win has less velocity than the .308 Win, I think any of those bullets will work fine.

Any cup and core bullet of 200 grains or more will fit the bill. The 200 grain Hornady you mentioned will work nicely. Hornady Interlocks are actually a reasonably tough bullet, especially if you don't push them too fast.

I found a stash of 358 Win. silvertips that are the 250 grain pills. They work great in my 358 win.

James I have had several 358's and the 200 gr Hornady Spire pt is perfect on deer. You will have a decent trajectory out to 200+ yds. There will not be excessive meat damage but that is often the result in a bullet in the wrong spot. For bigger game (elk or moose) I would move up to the 225 gr bullets . The 225 gr Partition is super for larger game.

The 250 Hornady RN bullets work well on Deer, or elk, at 358 or Whelen Speeds. They open a little faster than the Spire points but still create the "eat up to the hole" kind of wound channel. All the way through of course. The 250 is reasonably configured to fly through the air too for real hunting distances as you describe.
You won't find a dramatically expanding bullet that won't mash the meat at close range if you hit one in the shoulder. That compromise just doesn't work. I prefer the bullet and performance I described. You might not. Happy Hunting! Great round.

The Barnes 180 and 200gr TTSX are popular here in the shortened version of the 358 Win. We had a rule that only a 1.8" case length could be used so the 358 Hoosier was designed. Pretty much identical ballistically to the Winchester.

The 180's will flatten a deer at 2650fps.

Jeremy

I use the barnes x in 180 grains in a 350 remington magnum and 35 whelen. In 35 remington, a 200 grain coreloct. Both have worked great on multiple tries.

I use the 225 grain Barnes "X" Flat base for deer and elk in my .35 Whelen.

You have picked a great cartridge and you have already figured out the basics.

225 GK Sierra BT is THE bullet for the 358 Win IMHO.

You might want to consider trimming your barrel to 20 inches - ample for 200 meter shots and makes the rifle a lot more handy in the bush. You hate carrying a 24 inch barrel on such a rifle in the bush.

The 220 gr & 200 gr RN are not good from my experience. They were mostly designed for 35 Rem velocities.

You could consider the 180gr or 200 gr TSX

I used to own a Winchester Mod 70 20 inch barrel in 358 Win with synthetic stock and it was great to carry in the bush and put down big red deer with the 225gr Sierra GK BT

The 200 grain Hornady Interlocks work well from my .358 JDJ.

the 14 twist is kind of slow for the 358.
I shoot a 12 twist and prefer 250gr cast bullets at 2350fps.
Hornady discontinued their 250gr, RN a while back but their 200 gr interlock bullet at 24-2500 fps will do the job no problem.

if you don't want to track shoot a bone, if you don't want to ruin meat keep it in the chest cavity. [they won't go too far anyway]
the lower velocity of the round won't destroy everything surrounding the impact area.

quote:

Originally posted by James Yoder:
.. I am getting a 358 Winchester built off a 98 Mauser action. It is the real deal with a Lothar Walther barrel in either 22 or 24 inches (14 twist). I am looking for ideas on what bullet to use for this gun. Use will be primarily whitetail, with most shots being inside 100 yards. There may be an opportunity to shoot at 200, but I would say that is my max yardage.... I am leaning towards the Sierra 225 GK,... I am trying to stay away from expensive bullets (<$.50 per bullet)

Hi James,

I too am a fan of the 358, and our stories have some very interesting parallels -- including meat hunting requirements, distances, and thought patterns

well, you've answered your own question - 225 SGK fit the bill perfectly for your stated requirements.. and it only took me 10 years, building 4 different, and owning more, 358s to figure out that the 358 SGK is the best all around hunting bullet for the 358 winchester -- its very accurate, tough enough to take on boars at 15 feet, but expands enough at distance.

I have built 358 from 10 to 14 twist - the 10 was done to shoot barnes 225gr bullets.. which it did well, but no advantage

hornday 250 gr is too soft (yeah. really) , speer 220 FP is WAY too soft, as it's designed for lower impact speed

as for powder, i experimented a bit with several powders, but basically stayed with the winchester reloading data, which they used to provide a little printed load data manual ... using win748 and the load for the 250gr silvertip was my go-to load

today, if i was starting from scratch, it would be 225gr SGK, tac or h335 powder, federal 210 primers, set .030 off the lans, likely in a winchester 308 case - expect 2400-2500 fps, depending on several things, and tune for accuracy .. 2400 is plenty fast enough


on twist - the 358 had 12 and 14 twist barrels, which has been the subject of discussion for nearly 60 years.. but the deer don't know any better

I have tried Speer 220gr Hot Core and 225gr NP's and now 225gr SGK's and settled on the NP's for my elk load. Under a stout load of TAC the Nosler's shoot close MOA or a bit more at 100 yrds. This was likely my last year for hunting elk and I will be switching to 225gr SGK's. My preliminary loads with the SGK's are showing even better accuracy with both TAC and Varget. My 358 Win is a Ruger M77 Hawkeye with 22" barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
The 250 Hornady RN bullets work well on Deer, or elk, at 358 or Whelen Speeds.

I built a 9X57 Mauser with a .358 bbl and use this bullet in it. It is about a half step ahead of the 358 Win. Only killed one buck with it so far, but it performed perfectly! Trajectory out to 200 yards is not an issue.

The maker of Blue Mountain bullets (Jack deRosier, John Day Oregon)and his family are firm believers in the 358. they use the 358 Win for everything up to and including elk to 150 yards. If a longer shot is anticipated they use the 358 Norma. they use Jack's bullets which relative to mass produced bullets, are expensive. But considering the number fired at game during the course of a lifetime, they aren't that much.

But as noted in previous posts, the 358 win is at the lower velocity level of the span of 358 cartridges, the most common at present being the 35 Whelen. The result is that bullet makers are structuring their .358 bullets to perform well (in terms of expansion/weight retention) at 35 Whelen velocities. Since you want a non-explosive bullet that retains it's weight and drives deep, this leaves several bullets available that will do a great job for you. Once you get your rifle I suggest you make a small investment in several bullets in the 200 to 250 weight range. then try some different loads and see which one produces the best combination of velocity and accuracy. I predict the result will be a rifle/cartridge combination that will be pleasing to you for years and years of hunting. Best wishes in your endeavor.

Hornady still makes the 250 RN but on seasonal runs. Just like every other bullet, different people have had different experiences. I sure would not hesitate to use it in a 358 Win on Deer or elk.

" Such a deal"
I have perhaps 200ea. .358 250 grain Win. Flat points. You count them and pay me $0.10 each plus postage.
With the 250s I'll send you at no cost but postage, about 125ea. maybe more -.359dia. 297grain cast gas checked bullets That once were given to me by an AR member.
The lead bullets can be driven at 2200 fps. with no problem should you desire. I played with these in my .358 x 41 and with no effort or danger got 30-06 energy levels.These might just be what you want for white tails at around 1800 fps. PM me if you are interested. roger

Don't let anyone whizz on your boots about the 358 Win...if they bad mouth it they are just showing how "smart" they are. I've used all the different brands of cup and core "cheep" bullets in the 358 Win, 35 Rem and 35 Whelen and my present iteration, the rimmed version 356 Win and NEVER lost a head of game and that includes Elk. I mostly use Beartooth 210 and 250 gr LFN gas checked slugs in the 356 now because I to like to eat right up to the hole and hate blood shot meat. I don't push the range, know the accuracy of the load combo and put the bullet where it does the most good.

I also have switch barrels for the SA Savage and 308 case in 22, 6mm(243 Win), 6.5mm(260 Rem), 7mm-08, (308) and my slightly wildcatted versions in 338 and 375 cals...I too like economy and versatility.

You don't need a freaking super magnum canon to take most N.A. game unless you got the itch to shoot'm in the next state...besides they will go bad before you get them hung.

I never feel under gunned with ANY of the 35 cals.


Enjoy your toy...Luck

Bartsche

I'll take that deal if the op doesn't any it.

those sound like the 358009 a heavy cast bullet with a rounded nose.
they were designed for the 35 Whelen, but the 358 win. will certainly push them fast enough to kill a white tail out past 100 yds with no drama.
I use a saeco 250 cast bullet in my 358 for deer hunting [have to I don't have any copper coated bullets] it generally is a one shot affair where the animal rears up on it's hind legs then jumps forward on it's face.

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
Don't let anyone whizz on your boots about the 358 Win...

Yep -- the 358 hits way above it's weight class

Not to mention that a .358 bullet's dia isn't all that small, coupled with the fact that bullets from about 85 gr to over 300 gr are available in .357, .358 and .359-60, jacketed, cast and mono...what's NOT to like.

The Europeans certainly understand the capabilities of bullets and cases in and around those specs...just look at the 9 and 9.3 classes. There's only about 0.005" - 0.008" difference in dia between 35 cal and the 9/9.3 mm and look at the praise for all those various European cartridges.

I think somewhere in the dark past someone famous shot off their faces and the readers believed them...I can't understand why the Whelen was so well thought of and the .358 was relegated to the dust bin as what happened to so many other fine older cartridges and some very good newer ones.

We shooters have become WAY too picky and evil with all the available selections and forget that tasty bacon comes from the belly NOT the rump.

LUCK

There is no doubt in my mind; the answer is the Woodleigh 225 grs PP.
Accurate, hit like Thor`s hammer, usually a pass through and the best bullet I have ever used in regard of minimum meat destruction.

Woodleigh has become my standard hunting bullet for deer, moose and hog in 30-06 Sprg, 338-06, 35 Whelen and 375 Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Bartsche

I'll take that deal if the op doesn't any it.

Sorry but Yoder wants them. roger

No that is a good thing. A new 358 shooter made a good decision! I have some experience with that Cast bullet that might be helpful if he wants.

quote:

I have some experience with that Cast bullet that might be helpful if he wants.

Yup am interested! Was thinking of cast for this round. I keep going back and forth on the issue.I have run cast before but only 420 grainers in my 45 70 at 1650 fps! Those will remind you that you are alive!!!

Don't know if this would float your boat, but I am using the Hunter's Supply .359 bullets in my 9X57 that I mentioned above. I killed a nice buck with the 250 gr Hornady RN bullet last year so this year I am hunting with the rifle with the Hunter's Supply cast. I add a gas check and run it through my .359 die. It is accurate and I can't wait to take a deer with it. I bought them fro Midway I think, but here is the manufacturer's page on them:

http://www.hunters-supply.com/359-cal-246-p-1370.html

I also use their bullets in my 38-55s adding gas checks to them as well. Don't know if the gas checks are really necessary on them because I seldom load the 38-55s above 1500 fps, but I like having them on there. They are extremely accurate and have accounted for one nice buck so far.

The Sierra Pro Hunters and Game Kinks are great bullets for those type of velocities. That's what I'll be shooting in mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The Sierra Pro Hunters and Game Kinks are great bullets for those type of velocities. That's what I'll be shooting in mine.

ah, biebs.. one wonders are what causes your autocorrect to change KINGS to something else?

James, good luck on the path you have chosen. I am in the midst of buying a Winchester 94 in .35-30 and have ordered the NOE 360230FN gas checked bullet mold for this old wildcat, which will likely run this bullet at 1900-1950. That's well behind what your .358 is capable of, but I believe it will do very good work even at those speeds.

Jeff, is that what they call a Freudian slip? :-)

While not being Paco Kelly, I think you can easily get to 1900 with the big 290 grain in the 358. Imr 4759 20ish grains and more of aa2015, 2520, h335 kind of powders if you want to go faster. Leaving it up to you to choose the exact loads for your rifle. There is no need to. Anything over about 1700 will be a good hunting load. The bullet does the work and you can't beat that bullet in a 358 or 35 whelen for poking holes. It's on you to put the hole where it's supposed to be but you knew that. I have found a tuft of Dacron adds consistancy to the 4759 loads but you could probably live without it.
I love the 4759 loads in the whelen. Very low noise and recoil makes the kill shot in the woods very fun. Practice too... The old Whelen is my walkin' around rifle so loaded. Ready for fun, squirrels, deer or whatever. Load them as long COL as will fit and feed. Be happy and good shooting to you Sir!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Jeff, is that what they call a Freudian slip? :-)

Years ago I shot the 250 gr Speer on Mule Deer and Whitetail, it was definitely way to soft..I shot a nice whitetail buck at 350 yards, hit him in the white pach of his neck as he faced me, that bullet exploded on contact, did the same on a mule deer buck at 50 yards with a shoulder shot...Im just guessing but that was in the early 70s and that bullet may have been designed for the 35 REM. ??? Anyway I sold the .358 Sav. 99 sometime after that as, for the most part I could trow a rock faster than it would shoot a 250 gr. bullet!

I would take a look at the Hammer Sledge Hammer line. They offer quite a few choices for .358 caliber.

My 35 Whelen, a rebored pre 64 model 70 has a 1/14 twist and shoots 250 to 275 grain very well. With 250 grain bullets, it thinks its a varmint gun.

I've used it on 3 caribou cow with 250 grain Nosler Partitions. Outstanding performance. And you could eat the bullet hole.

My mentor and old friend used a pre 64 model 70 featherweight in 358 to take an elk nearly every year of his long elk hunting career. He took a larger number of mule deer and whitetails with it as well. His bullet of choice was the old Speer 250 grain Hot Core. He spoke highly of the bullet and often used the line about eating the bullet hole when describing the performance.

If you desire solid performance with the least amount of bloodshot then it would be hard to beat the 250 grain bullets from Hornady, Nosler or Speer. Under the conditions you stated with ranges under 100 yards, the Hornady 250 grain round nose would do great work. If you can't find any, I have a bunch of them and can help you out.

While the Barnes X bullets are great performers I've never seen one fail to seriously bloodshot a lot of meat, regardless of the caliber or velocity. I've seen them used on a dozen head of game in 25 to 41 caliber from 3400 fps down to 2300 fps and they have always left a bloodshot mess.

The cast bullet option is a great idea with the 358.

I've a 22" barrel .358 made on a push feed Winchester M.70 Featherweight. I have taken W/T deer with Sierra 225 GK from 30 to 125 yards and elk with 250 Speers. All left blood trails Ray Charles could follow but, really wasn't needed because all fell within 30 yards after being hit. Yes, it's true, one can eat right to the hole because the velocity is circa 2400 fps which keeps bloodshot meat to a minimum.
I have several cast bullet loads worked up from 156 to 258 grains. This is one of the easiest chamberings I've worked with and plan on taking some deer with them. One more thing, the Lyman 358156 simi wad cutter bullet loaded with 11 grains of Unique is very accurate and more fun than can be believed! After shooting these, it takes a long time for the smile to fade.

TTSX

I shot game once with crazyhorse's 35 Whelen using 225 Barnes bullets. Great performance and a pleasure to shoot.