The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Terminal bullet performance medium bores.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Terminal bullet performance medium bores. | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Boomy For ease of identification, linking to the other threads, and consistency, I suggest you name the threads you've started on the medium and small bore sites: Terminal Bullet Performance - Medium Bore Terminal Bullet Performance - Small Bore | |||
|
| One of Us |
Actually Boomy they are about $1.23 per bullet, as they are sold in boxes of 50 @ 61.79 per box; plus $7 shipping. May have to give a few of these a try! | |||
|
One of Us |
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
One of Us |
I don't know whether or not I'll ever get to use what I've learned in these threads but I'm grateful to all those who have contributed knowledge here because it's such a fascinating read. Thanks to you all for broadening my knowledge & understanding of this subject. Now go away & have a great Christmas with your loved ones.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
The 338 Raptors are now for sale on the website in 225 for those with a fast twist barrel. There will be 3 weights in 338, a 225, 200 and 175 grain. www.cuttingedgebullets.com 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
http://gunblast.com/Remington-700-50th.htm Check this and the video out. He should post hunting results soon I hope. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Any word on .358 bullets yet? Something like a tipped 160gr Raptor would be really cool! We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
|
One of Us |
It would seem doubtful that .358 caliber ESP Raptors would be offered in weights lighter than the .338 caliber nor heavier than the .366 caliber ESP Raptor bullets. Though I could be wrong. Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
|
| One of Us |
I saw 100gr .308 Raptors on the CEB website the other day. Is this bullet designed for ctgs such as 30-30 or should I try to scorch 4000 from my 300RUM with it? Andy We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'd settle for a 180. I have had wonderful results shooting 180gr bullets intended for 357Maximum from my 35Remington. Andy We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
|
| One of Us |
I talked to Dan at the NRA Convention on Friday, and he said the .358 Raptor would most certainly be less than 200 grains, and probably only one bullet weight offered, as it is less popular than .338 caliber. Something from 180-195 is the most likely. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Knowing the mistake of Remington making too slow of a twist on the 35 Whelen I would want a 180 for being short, stable in a 1 in 14 and fast! These things don't need high SD just an OK shot and some good velocity. The 180 will also be good for the 35 rem, 358 Win and single shot 357 maximum. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Lol Yes please do scorch 4K!!! Someone blew off the shoulder of a deer shooting the 40 grain raptor out of the 223 WSSM about that velocity. Talk about a varnmit grenade lol. Think 2,700 out of the thuddy thuddy. Was designed for carts like the 300 Blackout. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
These bullets develop incredible velocity with much less pressure than even barnes TSX bullets. I use barnes as a starting point for load data. I usually reach max pressure signs way above book velocity for similar bullet weight with 5-6gr less powder. The barnes manual shows 3700+ for their 130gr out of a 24"tube for the RUM. I will just watch the signs carefully and see what I can squeeze out. 4K would be great, but I am not going to stomp my feet and cry if I cannot achieve it. Andy We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
|
| One of Us |
CEB made some awesome 85 grain 6.8 SPC Raptor bullets that are in the testing phase now. Should be awesome for those wanting a light 270 bullet or those wanting the Raptors in 6.8 SPC 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here is the first part if a review on another forum by another member. I thought the review was good and he will do some hog hunting to post terminal performance soon. [QUOTE=HTR;304022]I spent a few days with the new Cutting Edge Bullets "Raptor." This is a lead-free projectile, made for precision shooting and hunting and is NOT designed to penetrate body armor. It appears to be internally skived and has a huge hollow point so that the bullet will fragment, losing the front 1/3 or so in the form of "petals." This will cause several jagged secondary projectiles to fan out into the animal, and the rest of the shank may continue to penetrate. This is my understanding of the function, but I did not recover any of the projectiles, and have yet to shoot any hogs with the bullet. I was shooting them at steel, and they appeared to have disintegrated. The purpose of this outing was to see how these bullets fit into the 6.8 X 43mm case, find the best load, asses accuracy and see how much velocity could be gotten from this 85 grain bullet. Kudos to CEB for choosing 85 grains, as this put the length just a hair over that of the Barnes 95 TTSX. This makes for easy loading and allows for the use of some of our favorite, usual powders. I will not be posting the actual powder charges I shot. Please forgive me, but I was loading for max velocity, and I used some powders that are still not commercially available. I pushed these to the limit, and I will be sending some of those loads out for pressure testing, before I post the charges, since they are likely going to be MAX for this bullet. Overall, the best commercially available powder was Re 7. The performance is so similar to the 85 TSX, I was able to generally extrapolate our favorite loads, and this bullet seems to parallel it closely, but of course, you should always treat each load as if it were an individual. This means that Re 7, will be among the best choices, and somewhere in the 29 grain range will be excellent, but you must work this bullet up as you would any other. I believe it is going to shoot well with several powders, since it is so well made. I want to thank Cutting Edge and Dan Smitchko, for sending these for testing. I received the bullets packaged nicely in boxes of 50, with the tips separate. Here are the bullets, side by side, some with tips installed and some without. Somehow, I managed not to get a picture of the gaping maw of a hollow point, but you can see the truncated section without tips, and when hollow, it is huge. The tips are made of plastic.  For reference, some other bullets against which to compare. From left, Barnes 110 TTSX, 110 TSX, 95 TTSX, and then the CEB's with tip installed, and one without tip.  Tested bullets weighed between 85.0 -85.1 grains with the tip installed. NOTE: Cutting Edge recommends that you work up loads and then shoot the bullets without the tip installed first. The reasoning is that you will use up fewer of the tips while working up loads, and I can see where that might make sense as I believe the bullets and tips are sold separately. CE says that the bullet will fly the same with or without tip, and that probably is true, but be forewarned that you will have to measure with the tip installed at some point in the process, if you want to assure that you are under the AR mag length restriction of 2.305". You could just test seat a bullet in a dummy case to find out your OAL with tip, but I will make it even easier for you. Just load the bullet to the first full-diameter driving band, so that it is sitting in the case mouth. This will result in an OAL of 2.295", with the tip installed, which is perfect for mag length (provided you own good 6.8 mags) and I have found this to be one of the most consistent OAL's for almost any bullet I shoot. IIRC, the OAL without the tip was something like 2.165". This bullet is built so that it seats with two of the bands in the neck, and the boattail sitting in the shoulder area, which gives approximately 100% capacity with the 6.8 X 43mm case. Here's a picture of the loaded round, so that you can see the position of the bullet's driving band, once seated. No crimp is necessary:  I had no set back in my AR, and feeding was perfect with the tips installed. I can see right now, that without the tips, you risk hanging the cavity up on the feedramps, but I did not try this, and can't say for sure it will not feed well, sans tip. The bullets also fed perfectly in my Rem 700 bolt gun. Notice that the ogive is essentially a "2 stage" taper. That is, you see a section of the bullet fore of the driving band, which is .275, and then the strong taper of the tip, which ends in the meplat. Only the driving bands are .277. This feature reduces bearing surface area, and I believe this is why I got higher velocity than I initially expected. I like this design. Now for some numbers. Please remember that these are going to be max charges, so I do not think any of you should strive for these velocities right out of the gate. Work your loads up at about 5% less than you would start with the 85 TSX, and carefully ascend from there. The fastest load was with a blended powder, very similar to AA2200, the next fastest was Re 7. None of the other powders tried equaled these two, and that is exactly what I expected. If you really like 4198, try it. I don't like it as much as Re 7, but YMMV. AA2200 is pretty similar to the best proprietary powder I used, but it burns just a little slower. *All loads used 2.295" OAL, SSA fired brass, CCI 41 primers. Load 1 (using Re 7), from a Rem 700 Bolt gun, with 19" barrel. -3075 -3105 -3089 -3080 -3090 Load 1 from 12" Ko-tonics, chrome lined barrel: -2886 -2902 -2855 -2840 -error (low bat) * Load 1 gave MOA to 200 yards Load 2 (double-based, ball powder) from Rem 700 19" bolt: -3157 -3197 -3187 -3149 -3176 Load 2 from Ko-Tonics 12" barrel: -2943 -2931 -2933 -2969 -2969 * load 2 was well under MOA out to 200 .....wow. I'd say that from the way the AR recoil & ejection felt and the way the primers looked, we are producing 57,000-58,000 PSI in order to get these velocities. I have an adjustable gas block (I adjusted it to this load, so the timing was perfect), FA carrier, enhanced bolt, and Tubbs spring. This gun usually does not show a swipe until just at 59,000-60,000 PSI. I also shot some rapid fire on the range, and saw just the faintest, shiny swipe mark, but no ejector flow whatsoever. The primers looked good throughout. With the bolt gun, I never experienced heavy bolt lift. The groups were fantastic. This 3 round group was fired from the bolt gun, at 150 yards (notice the 200 yard pig just over its back) :  This is a 5 shot group, again, fired from the Rem 700 bolt. Three rounds went right in on top of each other leaving a "smudge" dead-center on the plate and then two others opened up the group to a...well ....group, rather than a bug-hole. <label for="rb_iconid_10">  </label> For reference, those bolt heads on the hog are 7/8" <label for="rb_iconid_10"></label><label for="rb_iconid_10"></label>This group measured approx 0.7" CTC, and remember, that's 200 yards.  OK, the accuracy is definitely there. Now we have to shoot some animals with this bullet to see if the function rivals that of the Barnes TSX / TTSX, which would probably be its nearest competitor. It is going to be hard to beat, but this bullet can be shot so fast, that despite a relatively low BC, its super flat w/r/t the trajectory, out to 300. Presuming a MV of around 3150, I noticed less than one mil dot holdover with the 300 yard target, which puts the drop somewhere around 7" with a 50/200 yard zero. The 85 TSX, going 3000, has about 8.7" drop, with same zero. For those of you wondering, I did shoot the 85 TSX, 85 MPG, 95 TTSX and CEB Raptor side by side, and the POI was very close, almost touching out to 200 yards, from both guns. As expected, the Raptor, going 100-200 FPS faster, impacted slightly higher at 300 because of less drop below the LOS. That means, I can hold right under a hogs back with the Mil dot or D-740 at 300. It looks like we have another great 6.8 bullet, but I will not be able to judge terminal performance until I see some carnage. <label for="rb_iconid_6">  </label>[/QUOTE]577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
One of Us |
Boomy I just saw this 6.8 stuff today, very very excellent. This fellow did an excellent report and I am glad you posted it here for us all to see. I can't wait until they see some terminals out of these! I think they are in for a surprise! For all on the mediums that might not venture to the big bore thread, go up take a look at pages with the carnage from the 9.3 B&M and the 210 Raptor--It speaks for itself. Incredible that one can get that kind of performance. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Haven't seen it anywhere, but haven't checked all the threads here lately. Has there been any testing done on a 6.5? I am playing with a 8.5 twist .260 right now set up for long range, and just happened to think about these bullets. Thought they might be interesting to play with, after my experiments with the .223 last fall. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The 6.5's would work great in your fast twist rifle. I think the 6.5's ended up being 100 grains. Let us know how they work for you. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Went to the CEB website but didn't see any 6.5's on there. Maybe I'm just not looking the right place or something. | |||
|
| One of Us |
JTP They should be on the website somewhere. I have them here--100 gr ESP Raptors. Shot extremely good in my 6.5 WSM--I think it's 1:8 or 1:8.5? Wicked Wicked bullet these Raptors and BBW#13s. Also standard now, 40 and 50 gr .224s! I set up two rifles--1:8 twists to really get the good out of the .224s for my girls to use for things like impala and such. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The only .224's I saw were the 55's. There was a .308/130, and one other, that was all I saw listed. Guess I'll have to go look some more. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Okay, found them. You have to go to the ESP Raptor tab, and then look. I was in DG bullets or something. Thanks for the help guys. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Might just call in an order. I think they have been busy and not updated the site yet. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
https://cuttingedgebullets.com...n&key=ESP_H85_RAPTOR 6.8 Raptors now up for sale. This is what it does to hogs. Here is the exit wound from the 6.8 SPC and the 85 grain Raptor. A "lightning DRT" said the shooter.  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Boomy hasn’t updated this thread I thought I’d do him the favor. This hunt relates to Daniel Smitchko, President of Cutting Edge Bullets, and his son Nathan; Andrew Schoeman was their PH. Dan using a M70 chambered in 300 WSM and Nathan using a M70 chambered in 458 B&M. The following are extracted posts from the Terminal Bullet Performance thread up in the Big Bore Forum…(I have edited out the BB info to reduce it to data regarding the Talon Tipped 130gr .308 CEB ESP Raptor bullets performance). Shooter: Daniel Smitchko Cartridge/Bullet/MV: 300 WSM/130gr .308 CEB ESP Raptor with Talon Tip/3300 fps Rifle: M70 with synthetic stock
Definitely not bad performance from a little 130gr .308 monometal bullet! Oh…and I’m sorry, I just couldn’t resist…but it does deserve to be posted here as well! Shooter: Nathan Smitchko Cartridge/Bullet: 458 B&M/295gr .458 CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon Rifle: M70 with synthetic stock
Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks! I was slacking The 130 grain 308 bullet did a great job on large thin skinned African game. The reports speak for themselves but I would hunt elk, moose and black bear with this bullet without reservation. On brown bear it would work especially as the solid end but I would prefer maybe a 338 175 OT 200 grain raptor to break the shoulders or the soon to be 35 cal Raptors in a 35 Whelen or the 210 grain 9,3 Raptor. Ground hogs to moose with a 130 grain bullet. Who would have thought this a few years ago? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
One of Us |
I saw there is a 175 grain 338 Raptor. Any testing on that one? | |||
|
| One of Us |
 I truly don't recollect... I seem to recollect that Michael were going to split the test work with Michael doing the BBs and Dan doing the 'rat calibers'...but I can't remember where the BBs stopped and the 'rat calibers' begin. Maybe Boomy, Michael, or Dan c an step in and provide the .338 data. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
|
| One of Us |
Scott I tested the 200 quite a bit, and never did get around to doing the 175. I can't remember what Dan has done with it, but I am pretty sure he has done some longer range work with the bullet. Honestly, I have no doubts it is going to work like a charm, and it really won't be far behind the 200 in capability. The 200 is incredible to say the least.     Since these tests I did confirm my 338s are 1:10 twist rates. As you see, penetration is not an issue with the 200 Raptor. It will not be an issue with the 175 Raptor either, and knowing this up front has made me a little lazy testing the 175 Raptor, and putting efforts into other issues. For comparisons with other bullets tested in the same test medium here is my terminal data on 338 caliber bullets we did a couple of years ago.   Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Actually, I wouldn't mind loading some 210s in my 9.3x62. Is there reloading data available? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Scott I used the 9.3 210 Raptor in my 9.3 B&M in April on 3 zebras, 2 wildebeast, several impala, and seems some other things as well, and it was totally incredible, never recovered any! I don't have a 9.3X62 and no load data on that. But it would not be hard to sort out. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Michael, I've got a 9.3X62 you can borrow if you want to play with one. Its a model 70 too! Sam | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks, but think I will pass, I have plenty to do now. HEH......... http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yeah you got to get ready for our buffalo hunt. Me too, I've never even put a stock on that 9.3X62 so I'm glad you didn't say send it! | |||
|
| One of Us |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
A single shot 30-30 could really be quite effective with the tips. The impact velocity at that distance was about 2,450 and that is proof of the damage these can do even at moderate velocities. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
More field results http://68forums.com/forums/sho...g-Edge-Raptor/page13 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfPpJNvSRUQ We have video!!!!!! 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Terminal bullet performance medium bores.
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
