The simple truth is, when talking African DG, we are all stunt hunters. Nobody travels that far to subsistence hunt, not protecting crops or themselves. It's done for the endorphin rush, or the tallywhacker bragging in some cases.
What you choose to use and how someone else views it shouldn't matter a rats ass to anyone not paying the bill.

Howard Hill killed all sorts of DG with a bow. A long bow at that. He would readidly tell you that there was a PH just off camera with a .458, loaded and pointed.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Howard Hill killed all sorts of DG with a bow. A long bow at that. He would readidly tell you that there was a PH just off camera with a .458, loaded and pointed.

I believe it was he I saw put the arrow in a Brown Bear's rear end and the guide dispatched it with a .375 H&H. What amazed me at the time was that he released the film footage. roger

You're not bow hunting DG if your guide's backing you up with a rifle IMHO

Before I stumbled upon this place nearly a decade ago the phrase

"Bullet failure" was a new one to me

After an animal was shot at and an exhausted efforts found no hair or blood the phrase

"You missed" was used

After an animal was shot at and exhausted efforts turned up very little blood or hair the phrase

"You made a bad shot" was used

My my my my how the internet has placed all this blame on inadequate bullets/cartridge and left out placement

Entertaining but it gets old fast

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Like I said before and to keep stirring the pot and in case you aren't quite sure,
Africa hunting is not elk hunting...

Elmer repeatedly & quite satisfactorily hunted elk size/weight African game, with his .280 OKH

So what was it about elk that it needed .338cal...?

someone here explained that the larger bore/heavier bullet preference by Elmer was to get his bullets to still penetrate enough
to still kill elk,...after they began to tumble, because he purposely would shoot through bullet deflecting brush-obstructions.

Craig Boddington wrote to say that he personally viewed Elmers orig. letter of private correspondence to O'Connor,
in which Elmer acknowledges .270w-150 NP(premium bullet of the day) as being perfectly adequate for elk.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
You're not bow hunting DG if your guide's backing you up with a rifle IMHO

I know the record books view bow and rifle hunting as different,... but i don't.
Ones arrow or modern rifle bullets - are both essentially hunting projectiles,
just of different designs with different launch methods,velocities & momentum.
obviously requiring different levels of discipline, but that also applies when using-
switching between cartridges of different power levels.

Animals do get to know the sound of a gun,
But I doubt they would know the technical difference between a bow/broadhead and a rifle/cartridge...

quote:

Craig Boddington wrote to say that he personally viewed Elmers orig. letter of private correspondence to O,Connor,
in which Elmer acknowledges .270w-150 NP(premium bullet of the day) as being perfectly adequate for elk.

Put in the right place it is bound to work.
It has also been proven over and over here in SA on kudu and wildebeest.

Santa Claus

Just went over this again on a Skype with my son.

We decided that the most important thing is to have an elk to shoot at.

For the US, if the hunt is a special opportunity, then a bigger hole with guaranteed penetration would seem prudent.

In Africa, where there are no elk, we have the arbitrary cut-off of .375" for buffalo in several countries to deal with. I think that both Elmer and Jack would have liked the 375 Ruger.

OK true but if you were not backed up by a PH and a rifle would you rather have a rifle or a bow? There are hunts in Africa that are DIY with no PH. I like that idea. And I would not use a bow on DG unless backed up. I would hunt DG with a rifle with no backup if able. Also brown bear, Mtn lion etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
I had a discussion with the PH's over cocktails about what they thought about hunting DG with a bow. Definite consensus was a stunt. Being backed up by a rifle kinda indicates an "issue" if something goes wrong.

And when you go to Africa and hunt with a rifle -- irrespective of caliber -- you will also be backed by a rifle by your PH.

quote:

Originally posted by Santa Claus:

quote:

Craig Boddington wrote to say that he personally viewed Elmers orig. letter of private correspondence to O,Connor,
in which Elmer acknowledges .270w-150 NP(premium bullet of the day) as being perfectly adequate for elk.

Put in the right place it is bound to work.
It has also been proven over and over here in SA on kudu and wildebeest.

Santa Claus

I think Trax is misquoting Boddington but I may be wrong. I do know that several years ago I had a conversation with Craig and passed on to him a conversation that I had with elmer about the 270 use on elk. In the late 70's,I spent a day with elmer and his wife Lorrain in the Lemhi valley looking for a deer for her. On the way down the mountain we discussed my use of the 270 with 150 grain Nosler Partions for shooting elk. He allowed that that bullet made the 270 a useful elk rifle. Boddington did quote this conversation in one article.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

I think Trax is misquoting Boddington but I may be wrong.

RifleShooter, Dec.2011

Boddington wrote:

[quote] "In private correspondence, though never in print, they even crossed over.
In a letter I’ve seen, Keith grudgingly admitted that the .270, matched with a 150-grain Nosler Partition (the premium bullet of his day)
would be perfectly adequate for elk. O’Connor, on his part, conceded that the .30-06 was actually more versatile than his beloved .270."
[endquote]

that should dispel any doubt or confusion on the matter....

In an earlier article Boddington quoted our conversation on this matter. I was unaware of this letter that he was quoting.

Trax, thanks for posting it.

465H&H