The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Born in 1922, how will you commemorate the 100th of the 35 Whelen?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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35 Whelen turns 100 soon. How will you commemorate the centennial for this great 358? A hunt? Custom rifle? Purchase your first 35 Whelen? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | ||
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Nothing. | |||
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A moment of silence? How solemn of you. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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So late for US to copy 9,3*62. | |||
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While I think a lot of the "Euro Trash" (Thanks Taj Shoemaker) 9.3x62, naturally as a Native American, my loyalties lie with the good Colonel Townsend Whelen and my Springfield 35 Whelen. So; I shall do what the 35 Whelen does best. I will put a 250 grain Softpoint through an elk launched at 2550 FPS using my 4x PCH Hensoldt that sits in a G&H sidemount. Then I'll put a 290 Grain Cast bullet through a Whitetail deer at 1750 FPS using it's Lyman Peep. Probably beat my son in another shoot off at Hedge apples with the Cast loads and Peep while he uses his Scoped 260. Then I'll stand it in the corner to rest while I decide whether to use 270, 30-06, or 35 Whelen Brass for the next project. Just another day for the most versatile American medium bore ever.  "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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I have owned several over the years, including a G&H Model 70, but right now all I have is a .35 Brown Improved Whelen. However, a standard Whelen is being built for me as I write, using a Springfield action, Noske scope in a Noske mount, a Lyman 48 receiver sight and a Sourdough front sight on a Redfield banded ramp. I hope it's ready by deer season. | |||
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Celebrated the -06 with a red stag, the 375 with a deer. I'm holding out for the centennial of the 270. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Holding out for 2025 too. All We Know Is All We Are | |||
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I’ll yawn and enjoy the 9.3x62! If that round did not exist, I would be interested in the Whelen. It’s a great round, and give up very little to the 9.3, but I like what I like. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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If Yawning makes you happy sir; who am I to say. Just in fun of course on the 100th year celebration of the Whelen coming up. BTW: I admire the Orwell Quote. I hate to be living it but here we be. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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I'll probably build another wildcat based on the Whelen case. LOL The wife and I just signed up for a "couples class" from Matt Townsend and I catch myself calling him Colonel Townsend Whelen. My daughter (who made us sign up) doesn't think I'm funny but at least she knows of Colonel Townsend Whelen and his contributions. Zeke | |||
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I think the 35 and 400 Whelen were developed the same year, sooooo happy anniversary to the lovely couple. do you have a 400 Whelen?
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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1922 for the 35 and 1923 for the 400. I have both. Took a bull moose last year with the 35 and a classic bullet, the Hornady 275 grain RN. Perhaps I'll plan on using the 35 exclusively in 2022. It has three caribou and a moose to it's credit. The caribou all with 250 Partitions. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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If zimbabwe would grandfather it in as a DG caliber then it would get popular quick. | |||
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The real question is what are the arms manufacturers going to do?? A commemorative Model 70 would be nice. If nothing else I will have to dust of the trusty M-98 and see if I can find something to shoot at. Preferably something with a nice rack! AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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How did you come up with the year 1923? Thanks!
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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With the new 350 legend bullets, the 35 Whelen just became more versatile. 358 Rifle bullets down to 145 grains. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I'm going from memory on Micheal Petrov's research. I'm pretty sure he has the 400 Whelen coming to life in 1923. I could be wrong. It happens daily. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I am in error. I went back and reread Micheal's articles. The 400 did come about in 1922. The mind is a terrible thing to loose. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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The great thing about a mind is though sometimes lost; it can be found again. The fact that you have both a 35 Whelen and a 400 Whelen means you did not lose very much mind... "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Perhaps wishing for the 20th time that I didn't trade it off. Mark x action, Bill Morrison barrel, Fagen aristocrat stock. Tack driver with 225 ballistic tips. | |||
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I'll be necking all my 35 Whalen brass down to 338/06.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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The .38 Whelen was under way in 1919, chambered briefly by Griffin & Howe in 1923, but discontinued after April 1, 1923, according to Michael Petrov. The .400 Whelen was surely under way, 4 rifles being under construction, by mid 1922. The .35 Whelen is not of 1922 vintage by reference to Michael Petrov: 1923 was the very good year. I am as guilty as any of dating the .400 Whelen to 1923, because of that seminal TAR article, reproduced below. I apologize. It was indeed 1922 when the .400 Whelen was born. I cannot say the same about the .35 Whelen. (I also wish to stress the date of origin of the .458 Winchester Magnum was 1955, not 1956. By November 1955 General Hatcher was evaluating a rifle so chambered, in his capacity as technical editor at TAR. The .458 WIN M70 African was subsequently released upon the unsuspecting public in 1956.) Michael Petrov's Custom GUNMAKERS OF THE 20TH CENTURY VOLUME TWO, pp. 153-160, part one of his .400 Whelen saga, revealed some dates pertinent to this. The .400 Whelen was announced in mid 1922 according to Michael Petrov, first notice was in Arms And The Man on June 15, 1922. Apparently the first four rifles, under construction then were two 1903 Springfields and two M98 Mausers. Whelen started working on the .38 Whelen in 1919, according to Michael Petrov who found a letter from Whelen to Fred Adolph, typed on WAR DEPARTMENT letterhead, dated August 23, 1919. Whelen was inquiring about barrels of .375" groove diameter, .365" bore diameter, and 1:18" twist. This was Townsend Whelen's first necking up of the .30-06 case, according to Petrov. "From 1923 to 1925 Griffin & Howe only offered their proprietary Whelen cartridges as their largest caliber rifles and not any of the English cartridges such as the .375 H&H." (Petrov) They were using a 275-grain bullet designed for the .38-72 W.C.F. However, because Winchester quit making the bullets they had been using, Whelen announces discontinuation of the .38 Whelen on April 1, 1923, "and suggests that no more .38 Whelens be made." APRIL FOOLS DAY 1923 ! No it was true. When revived in the 1950's they called it the .375 Whelen, according to Petrov. Michael Petrov claims the .35 Whelen was announced in a September 15, 1923 article in TAR, THE AMERICAN RIFLEMAN, entitled "American Heavy Caliber Rifles for Large Game." I got an email copy of a so titled article from the LATE GREAT Michael Petrov, but the date on that one is September 1, 1923. And I do not recall mention of the .35 Whelen in it. There may be a "PART TWO" of that article published 2 weeks later, on 9-15-1923. That would seem to be the "second" article referred to by Ken Waters. Water's interpretation is suspect in not mentioning the .38 Whelen, however.  Well, maybe there was actually a shooting .35 Whelen in 1922. I am not so sure now. The format is hopefully legible, best I can do, from Michael Petrov's email:    Interesting to note that the original .400 Whelen used a .409/300-grain bullet, in 1922-1923. That must have been the easily available .405 W.C.F. bullet of the day. See cartridge drawing above, and note the shoulder diameter is 0.455" and neck-1 diameter is 0.431", and neck-2 is 0.430. Functional shoulder. Brass specs are maximums. A 1956-dated G&H chamber drawing indicates bullet diameter as .411 (deduced from a .412" diameter PSFB) and an erroneous shoulder diameter of 0.455" and shows the greater-tapered neck. Chamber specs should be minimums, They are allowed to be bigger than brass maximums.  Making a chamber reamer too tight in the shoulder and loose in the neck-1 caused a lot of BS for the .400 Whelen. Undeserved. Just like the .458 WIN is undeservedly much maligned. $#!& happens. The functional .400 Whelen reamer has a shoulder diameter of 0.458" MINIMUM, to fit the brass shoulder diameter of 0.455" MAXIMUM. The PT&G reamer by Michael Petrov is shown in part two of his saga, pp. 161-167, it has a .458" diameter shoulder minimum. I call that the ".400 Whelen-Petrov of 2003." It is certainly a bit different than what Howe came up with for Whelen in 1922. I now call that the ".400 Whelen of 1922." The Petrov reamer has .004" of neck taper.  The G&H reamer drawing had 0.003" of neck taper on the 1956 dated drawing. Townsend Whelen's drawing for the ".400 Whelen of 1922" showed only 0.001" of neck taper  just like my slightly longer-throated ".400 Whelen-B-Team of 2013." The latter can be loaded LongCOL for a 3.6-inch box or ShortCOL for a .30-06-length box. Well, anyway, it seems certain that Townsend Whelen started wildcatting the .30-06 case in late 1919. He probably did them all as dummies, .35-.400 just about exactly 100 years ago. He masterminded them all, and Mr. Howe was his "ENABLER." Rip ... | |||
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I'll tip my hat to the old girl out of respect for her, then give it a big yawn, and have another beer...and keep shooting the 9.3x62 she is even older!! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The .35 Brown-Whelen: Fred Barnes used to offer that along with his B-J Express and Barnes Supreme lines of cartridges in the 1950's. A Goldie Oldie. I had one too, on a Winchester M70 Classic Stainless that started off as a .270 W.C.F. It got re-barreled to .400 Whelen-B-Team LongCOL with an opening up of the action. I had a bastard file in hand when I shortened the ejector/bolt-stop myself,  and popped out the block of the magazine box rear by drilling out the 4 spotwelds. I have all three barrels: .270 WCF, .35 B-W, and .400 W-B-T. Not a quick-switch-barrel, vise and action wrench required. But, no switch needed because I have a .35 Whelen built on a 1952 vintage M70 WIN in original walnut. That'll do. 1:12" twist rules in .35 Whelen. Rip ... | |||
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Thanks. But at one time I had all three; 35, 375 and 400. I really regret selling that 375. It seemed redundant at the time and it probably was, but man that's one I wish I had back. I've offered to buy it back from the gentleman who has it. I guess he likes it and is smart enough not to sell it. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Mart I have followed your Whelen journey here on AR and enjoyed/appreciated your sharing. Whenever the new caliber bug hits me, I go pick up the old girl and ask myself “what will the new gun do that she will not?” That has saved me many times. My old Springfield is a bit tired and was made with a chamber just a tad too long but so am I. We both plan on finishing what we’ve started strong. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Thank you sir and I have to agree with you that the 35 Whelen is a truly versatile medium bore. There ain't much the Old Colonel won't do in the game fields. I don't name my guns but I do often refer to going for a walk in the woods with the Colonel when I'm out with either Whelen. I have come to a point in my walk with the 35 Whelen where I simply stick to one bullet weight and one powder. I'll probably continue to use a 250 grain bullet over 56 grains of 4320 in it the rest of my life. I flirted with the Hornady 275 grain RN and while it killed my bull moose just fine last year, it didn't do anything the 250's won't. I'll stick with the 250's. When I was first doing load development in my 35, almost 20 years ago now, I tried all the commonly available 250 grain bullets at the time. The Hornady SP and RN, Speer spitzer and Nosler Partition. All shot just under an inch and to the same POI at 100 yards. On a lark I shot a few groups using a the same load and one of each of the aforementioned bullets. Not surprisingly, they shot under one inch each time with four different bullets. The 250's shot so well I've never tried any lighter bullets and the only heavier bullets have been the 275 Hornadys and some Kodiaks, 280 grain I think. The Kodiak is a good bullet but they didn't shoot well in my rifle. I truly hope the 35 Whelen is around for another century. I'm making plans for a moose hunt in 2059, when I'm 100. It will be a tough choice which Whelen to take. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I am going to Alberta in November moose hunting I was going to take a 330 Dakota but after reading this I think I will take my 35 W AI I always used 225 gr. if successful will be # 4 for my 35 whelen AI | |||
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'How will I commemorate 100 Years of the 35 Whelen?' I should probably run down main street naked with my beloved 35 Whelen in my arms. At my age, the only thing they'll notice is a beautiful rifle in a superb caliber...  | |||
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Of all the medium bores it seems like the 35 bore doesn't get the respect it deserves. Case in point; I once read an article by a fairly well known gun writer on all the wildcats using the 284 win. case from 243 to 416. He talked glowingly of the 338-284 and then he could see the 375-284 ahead and just brushed over the 35-284 to glow over that 375 bore because it was legal bore size for african DG. But I thank the 35 whelen is a great cartridge. | |||
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I'm not gonna worry too much about it. As nice a cartridge as I think it is I don't have one and probably never will. Retired on a limited budget sucks. Any way that 100 year birthday is still 3 years away, so who knows. Leo The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it. | |||
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I should take it to Africa in 2022 for a nice plains game Safari, my 35 Whelen came to be from buying a rust bucket pre-64 Winchester 70 chambered in 270, promptly sent it to JES for a 35 Whelen rebore, my 'Smith bead blasted the hell out of it then coated all metal in black matte cerakote, then bedded it into a McMillan McWoody stock, it wears a 2.5-8 Leupold in DD rings and bases. It fires 250gr partitions to 2700 fps with very good accuracy, 67 grains of power pro 2000 powder under a 250 gr partition really wakes the old girl up and is hell for stout in the downrange payload department. New Hornady cases and CCI-250 primers round out the rest of the load. | |||
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I'll grab it and  go out and kill something! ya! GWB | |||
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If Townsend Whelen had chosen the M1917 rifle for his projects instead of the M1903 rifle then the 400 Whelen would be more like the .416 Remington Magnum and the 35 Whelen would be more like the 350 G&H magnum. Those would have made for true American Heavy Rifle Calibers For Large Game. As it is, neither the 400 Whelen nor the 35 Whelen qualifies as a decent heavy cartridge. . | |||
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GWB, Nice rifle you have there! Many years ago a coworker built a .35 Whelen on an 03 Sprinfield that could have passed as an original Griffin & Howe. When he decided to part with it I tried really hard to buy it. But at the last moment his brother who he had promised it to got it. I'd still love to have one built like that today. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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I have a a Ruger M77 stainless with a “boat paddle” stock in 30-06, which I think I’ll have rebored to .35 Whelen. I think it’ll be an easier to carry bear rifle than my .375 H&H. If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while. | |||
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I owned a new Rem 700 in 35 Whelen many years ago. I bought the rifle new and for the action. The gun shop had 270s and 30/06s but since the rifle was just for the action I picked the 35 Whelen as I had never owned one. I bedded the rifle and worked up loads. It was very accurate over a very wide range of loads and I think the 1 in 16 twist played a big part. My top loads had about the same velocity with same bullet weights as factor Winchester Power Point ammo. Yes, I know the 338 bullets had a higher SD. Different story with top reloads in the 338 Winchester. I thought it was very good. Also got good accuracy with various loads and 357 pistol bullets. However, I would always get a 338 or 375 over the 35 Whelen. It's very easy with 4064/Varget and also 3031 burn rate to develop top accuracy loads in the 338 and 375 with similar recoil and less pressure. The only plus I could see in the 35 Whelen is you wanted ir needed a 5 round magazine. I think the 35 Whelen came out at a time when a 375 H&H was a much more expensive proposition. But 338s and also 375s are available in cheap and readily available rifles. If you look at factory rifle and factory ammo availability then it would seem mot shooters will take the 338 and 375 instead of the 35 Whelen. Like the 338/06, the 35 Whelen is good for the bloke who wants to rebarrel as 270 or 30/06 to a bigger bore and with the least trouble and cost. Even them a better deal would be to sell the 270 or 30/06 and just buy a 338 Winchester. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Born in 1922, how will you commemorate the 100th of the 35 Whelen?
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