The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 358 STA ???Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
Anyone use one of these? If yoiu've seen my thread in the Big Bores, I've acquired a 375H&H and for some reason I'm looking for something different. I was thinking a long range beast killer (bear, elk, moose) as I won't get to Africa in this lifetime (if I do I'll have plenty of time for another gun acquisition I'm sure  ). I see reloading data for the STA and it shows 3100fps with a 225gr Partition and almost 3000fps with a 250gr Partition.What other rounds may be better in terms of bullet selection and trajectory/energy??? I'm just dreaming here, but enlighten me. No Weatherbys please. ------------------ | ||
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Hi Matt. I haven't used the 358 STA, but I do use the 358 Norma, which pushes a 250 gr bullet at 2800 fps. That's a lot of snort, but there are faster cartridges. One of the local 'smiths has done up a few 35-378's, and there you can push the 250's around 3200 fps. I'm putting one together now on an Enfield action. I think it will be basically a 358 Norma on steroids. It ought to be fun. - Dan | |||
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One of my customers has two on M700's. He is considering having me build one (I have a new reamer) on a CZ550 for the longer magazine, the M700 is really too short and you have to stick the base of the bullet in the powder. But, he has gotten some impressive velocities and accuracy. A 358 STA, properly built on a long enough action, will make a excellent long range Elk and Moose rifle. It needs a 27 inch or so barrel. Remember, it is still a wildcat, and you may run into headstamp issues if you ever take the rifle to Africa. ------------------ My Warden sometimes allows me to respond to email. NEW Address is rifles@earthlink.net ***********Jail Flash******* | |||
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Hmmm, Interesting. Any other ideas? I'm not just thinking in terms of the 35 cal either. If one was to look at a long range stomper that would be right in a CZ mag action--what are the choices? Considerations would be your mentioned 'snort' factor along with bullet selection, trajectory, etc... I know there are some great 338's out there, but I have a 338 Win and am thinking of something grander. I suppose the 338 RUM would have to be considered here as well. What about that firebreathing 375 Saeed uses? I'll have to visit his loading section and check it out again, but something about the 35's has gotten my attention. ------------------ [This message has been edited by matt salm (edited 03-03-2002).] | |||
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I have a 338 Ultra Mag case on the reloading bench necked up to 358 with a 250gr Ballistic Tip bullet seated. Sure looks nice. Stick this combination in a CZ550 with a 27 inch barrel and never look back. I am build a 338 lapua on a CZ550 for the same reasons, need that extra magazine length. What a wonderful time in the gun building world, we finally have big cases and big actions to work with that don't cost as much as a nice used 4X4. ------------------ My Warden sometimes allows me to respond to email. NEW Address is rifles@earthlink.net ***********Jail Flash******* | |||
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I have a 35/375 imp. which is similar to STA. It is my favorite 35 cal. The option of using cheap pistol bullets for gopher shooting is nice. Mine is on a Sako L61R action with a 28" barrel. Brass is cheap and readily available (375) The drawback is the real long action. My 358 Norma is on a Mauser with a 24" barrel and produces only 250fps. less velocity with light bullets, but with the 275gr. the spread is wider and the STA is better.Mark | |||
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A 35 cal bullet seated in the 338 RUM may just be the ticket. Cheaper brass and also readily available--probably would go with the 27" barrel. Thanks for the info guys, now I guess I should sign up for another rifle rebarreling class at Murray State College and do it myself this summer! ------------------ | |||
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Matt, Why go with a 358-338 RUM? The 338 RUM brass is the shortest of all the RUMs. The 7mm, 300 & 375 are all the same length. The 338 is ~.125 shorter. I have a 7 STW, 30-338 Mag, 338-8mm Rem Mag, a 338 WSM, a 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, and will be doing a 358 STA & a 375 H&H AI or Wby within the next few weeks. Stick with the 358 STA. An aquaintance of mine has one and he swears by it. Plus unless you start with a RUM receiver, you may have to open the feeder rails like I did with my 338 WSM that started on a 700 Sendaro 7 mag receiver. As you know, the WSM and RUM have the same case diameter. My 338 WSM started it's life as a single shot until I opened the rails. Go with the 358 STA.
------------------ Regards, Mark | |||
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Well there you go screwing with a perfectly good plan. What about wanting to do away with the belted case? Doesn't the 358 STA have the belt? Of course, I guess there's no real reason to NOT have a belted case--I guess I've just been caught up in the latest rage. When I was thinking of the 35-338RUM, I was assuming it was the same length, but I do remember reading about Remington shortening that one. OK, so I'm looking for 35 with flat trajectory (SPEED) with a good bullet (250). Where does that put me? I guess you really cant argue with the original idea of........drumroll...........THE 358STA. I guess that's it then (if or when I decide to rebarrel the CZ 375!) Thanks guys ------------------ | |||
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Matt, Or a 338 RUM. A few guys have done a 338-300 RUM to take advantage of the additional length. The only drawback to the 358s that I can see is bullet selection. I think the 338s have a big advantage there. Heck, have a few of each caliber made - a 358 STA & a 338-300 RUM. That way you can keep your 375. Nonetheless, I want an STA too!!!!!!!!!! By-the-by, Nosler does make the Ballistic Tip in 375 @ 260gr. Not a bad bullet to be using. Myself, in 375, I'd stick with the SIerra 300gr BTSP. Best o' luck. ------------------ Regards, Mark | |||
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John, I disagree with your statement regarding the 700s being to short in the magazine area. I have a few custom 700s done in cartridges that are 2.850" and they work fine. Also, I have an SF Sendaro in 7 STW and have had SF Sendaros in 7mm RUM and 300 RUM, which are both 2.850", and they worked fine with super long bullets. I have 2 A-squares in P-14/17 that are also chambered for cartridges that are 2.850" and those magazines are a little too short for what I want to do. ------------------ Regards, Mark | |||
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Matt you are making this Way too easy for me. I just absolutely love and ador ethe 340 Wby. I've had 2 tubes on my M70 and one on myM700 and the M700 is waiting it's second. This is a fantastic cartridge, in my opinion. I have a 3-10 leupold on mine. I use Schneider barrels. I also have found the round to be fantastically accurate! Can't figure out why it doesn't get more press? Dog | |||
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| <Kodiakisland> |
I love my 358STA. I use it for everything here in Alaska except sheep. I built it on a M70 in 375H&H and couldn't be happier. It has a 23in Shilen barrel. 250gr partitions make 2950fps easily. | ||
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Provided you don't make the barrel too short, you are looking at something that'll push 250's an honest 3000 fps, and 280's well over 2700 fps. With the 280 gr a-frame, you have the trajectory of a 375 H&H pushing a 270 gr bullet, and the penetration of the 375 w/ a 300 gr bullet. The 33 fans can argue there merrits past 500 yds, but inside, I'd always take a 35 over a 33. If I weren't of the mind that big bears deserve big bores, in my mind there is a good argument for the 280 gr 35 ias the best medium bore combo for big bruins. As it is, I'm content pushing a 250 gr @ 2700 fps for moose on down. | |||
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300 STW, I haven't played with the 250s yet. I'm using 180 & 200gr Bal Tips and 210gr Partitions in it. It's an A-Square with a 26" fluted stainless barrel. Shoots sub MOA most of the time. Partitions grow to ~ 1" @ 114yds. I figure +2800 for the 250s with no problem. I think the STA has a slight advantage due to minimum body taper with the 35� shoulders. Perhaps a 338-8mm w/40� shoulders would be the cat's meow!!!!!!!!!! ------------------ Regards, Mark | |||
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| <T/Jazz> |
I don't want to spill the milk, but I think the .375 H&H 300 grain is the best medication for the big bears. Up close lest wise that's the way I see things. | ||
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T/Jazz, I don't want to tread on Matt's post but I agree. The 300gr Sierra SBT Gamekings are furious when launched at high speed. I just ordered the 375 barrel for a custom Enfield that I'm doing. 27" SS, beadblasted, 11� crown. Just have to decide what to chamber it in. I was thinking 375 H&H AI or 375 Wby. My gunsmith is trying to talk me into a 375 RUM. My Custom Sendaro in 416 Rem Mag with Speer 350s does one whale of a job on bears as well. Rem Brass ------------------ Regards, Mark | |||
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PA, Tread away! It doesn't bother me one bit as I read it all and file it away for future reference. As it stands, I just may leave the CZ in 375 for the time being. I still am trying to sort out in my head what would be a flat shooting round that would carry the Hammer of Thor to the target. If it would be a 375 RUM and a 300gr Sierra BT, so be it. ------------------ | |||
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Go for the 375 Ruger. 260gr Accubond (BC=.473) at 3050fps out of a 23" barrel. Sighted in for 250yds it has the following trajectory. 100 = +2.58 150 = +2.91 200 = +2.08 250 = 0.0 300 = -2.41 350 = -8.28 400 = -14.69...and still carrying 3009ft-lbs. You can also shoot heavier bullets and take anything in Africa with it. From mild to wild in a standard length action. 375 Ruger Load Data You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further brotherhood of a man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves. | |||
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I shoot two .358 STA's and between my son and two grandson's have used them for Deer, Elk and African plainsgame. Both of my rifles are Winchester Moodel 70 Customs. The one I call Big Red is from the Winchester Custom Shop and has georgeous Red streaked Walnut that pulses the red streaks when looked at in the sunshine. It is Stainless and has been with me from Alaska to Alberta to Colorado to Africa. My African bullet was 270 gr. Northfork at 2850 fps in front of RL-22 and Fed 215M primers. My second Model 70 Custom is a post 64 action with a Lilja barrel. My son shot a huge Bull Elk through both shoulders at 125 yards and the Northfork 270 grain bullet passed through the Bull and killed a cow bedded 25 yards beyond, he had two tags. I use 225 grain bullets at 3100 plus and 250 grain bullets at 30000 fps all Northforks. Don't let anybody talk you out of the real .358 STA because in my opinion it is the tops of the 35 caliber rounds. With bullets from 185 grains up to 310 grains it is very versital indeed. Superior Ammo custom loads it and with the correct headstamp. I load all mine with RL-22 being the magic powder. I have muzzle breaks on both mine but if you are recoil sensitive at all stay on the porch. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Bryce Towsley's 358 RUM might give you what you want, without the belt thingie... | |||
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You're going to pay a lot more to get a 358 STA...long-action rifle, custom chambering if you have to build one, reloading dies (RCBS for $100), brass @$2.50/ea, lots of powder...and get little to no performance increase over what I show above with the 375 Ruger. Plus you get the added 375 benefit of using it for DG if you so desire. The 375 can shoot 225gr@3206fps, 300gr@2810fps, or 350gr@2481fps. All the flexibility in the world right there in a standard length action handier rifle with a 23" barrel for a lot less money (initial investment and recurring shooting costs). You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further brotherhood of a man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves. | |||
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I have had two of them and been involved with several others. The calibre became a bit of a cult calibre with some of us  They were all done with a JGS reamer and RCBS dies. Remember it is not a 358/8mm Rem. The 358 STA is bigger at the shoulder, about .505 from memory. In some ways it is like a 450 Ackley necked down. The barrels were all from the same Australia match barrel and at his suggestion they were .357. He had done quite a bit of experimenting that led him to the general idea that a barrel a thou undersize was the way to go. Twist used was 1 in 14. Firstly, the accuracy was unbelievable. As an experiment on a switch barrel bench style rife I compared the 358, 338 Win and 375 H&H. All barrel were what we call a Number 5, about .72" at the muzzle of a 26" barrel. Quite similar to a Weatherby Accumark barrel. If I took the most accurate load from each of the three calibres there was nothing in it. HOWEVER, where the 358 shit over the 338 and 375 was the accuracy across a whole range of loads. I believe one reason was the slower twist. I was also able to work up very accurate loads to use in 375 H&H brass and they would shoot to the same point as full 358 STA loads. One of the blokes, he posts on AR as Blair 338RUM, took his to Africa and of course with great success. At least with the barrels we used the 358 STA is easily the most accurate magnum I have used from 300 Magnum to 375 magnums. By that, I mean the accuracy across a very wide range of loads. In fact it was difficult to get a load that would not shoot. To save fire forming which of course is needed to fit the powder charge into the case, I tried 340 Wby brass. Worked like a charm. Of course every thing youngda9 says above is true. However, for a fun calibre with big horsepower the 358 STA is tops. And I won't even go into loads we did with 35 calibre pistol bullets and those 220 grain flat nose speer and similar. Not that it will make too much difference in the real world the facts are the 358 STA is faster than the 375 Ruger with bullets of equal sectional density. No surprise there with a bigger case capacity on a smaller bore. One negative (not sure if it applies today) but bullets like the 250 grain Hornady seater to the cannelure are a touch long OAL for a M70 375 magazine (3.6") but OK in Rem 700 as they are about 3.65" A similar problem is with 338 bullets having greater length in front of canelures and hence the 338 RUM being a slightly shorter case than the other RUM calibres. | |||
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Out of interest did you get the .502 off a reamer or fired case. The reason I mentioned it was because a couple of blokes in Australia got fucked up with rifles chambered with 8mm Rem and 35 throater but had proper 358 STA dies. Edit: Post I replied to is gone! | |||
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 I had just deleted my reference to .502. Figured I was being a smarta$$.  I had pulled .502 from Quickload and Ammoguide. Then looked at my Nosler manual laying next to my PC and it says .495. So figured not only was I being a smarta$$ I no longer had a clue as to the real dia.  Only thing I can now say with confidence is that it isn't a 8mm simply necked up.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I think it is .505 and I think 450 Ackley is the same. As a side note unfired 340 Wby brass was only about 3 grains less than fireformed 375 H&H Winchester. All Wby brass is very thin in the walls. Roy milked the case capacity for every bit possible  Also an interesting thing about the Wby shoulder. Anyone who has ever necked them down or up will know about a one calibre change is the limit as the shoulder will collapse and ditto for the Ackley type 40 degree shoulder. However, coming from the other direction is different. I had some reduced loads worked up that were mid range pressure, maybe similar to 30/30. They woulde blow the H&H case out but would not affect the 340 Wby shoulder. Shit you can waste some time with this stuff when a Howa/Vanguard with 308 factory ammo will do just about everything | |||
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When I was about 22-23 I spent months working out the one do all rifle I needed. Years later I spent months and years designing and testing wildcats that would add just a touch over that one starter rifle.Man it would be boring with only one.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Fred Wells necked down a 378 Wby to .358 and called it the 35 Wells magnum. | |||
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When I am ready for the nursing home I will decide between the 7-08 and 308 A 358 on the 378 would be very good. With bullets from Hornady designed for the 35 Whelen it would be really something on kangaroos and pigs. What is a spectacle is the old 500 grain Hornady from the 460 with a dead centre hit on Emus. | |||
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Mike, Yeah those 358 STA's were bloody great. I took mine on my first safari to Africa way back in 1995. Killed a 38" eland with it on the run at 250 yards. 250gr XFB. The accuracy was unbelievable.. The fire forming load would put 10 shots into a sub inch group. Denis Tobler's .357 barrels were the way to go. | |||
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And the 1 in 14v twist. | |||
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What 358Mark said!! I was going to say pretty much the same thing. As a handloader, you've got it all. Fast, flat, with lots of horsepower with proper bullets, and cheap, low recoil loads for "plinking" and hav'n fun with your big (medium) rifle!! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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 As yet I am not quite ready for the nursing home. 6.5 from the bench is about as recoil happy as I get. I gave my home brewed .358 X .404 IMP away a couple months ago along with my 8mm x .404 x 2.5" IMP.My big bore is .358 x 41 lead and pistol bullets.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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At the rate my chest flap is healing 6.5 looks a long way off.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Moderator |
holy zombie thread, batman -- opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Just noticed that 13 yr jumpAs usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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If your not set a .358 cal rifle and you already have a 375 then why not open it up to the .375AI or WBY. Steve | |||
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True, BUT in the end it's still a 375 Ruger. :-P **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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