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The mere fact of mentioning BOSS on this forum will probably make me a pariah. I have a Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker w/ BOSS. It's a laser beam with 180gr Federal Accubonds tuned to 8.2 w/ BOSS. Truly, if I miss, it's not the guns fault! My problem is how to handload for it without chasing my tail. I'm slowly converting everything over to TSX's and would like to have this rifle shooting a 180gr TSX. If it ain't broke why fix it, right? Buying factory loads for my, all to infrequent, Elk hunting trips is feasible. The gun shoots the 180gr Accubond wonderful, the terminal ballistics of the round on Elk out to 400 yds is incredible, blah, blah, blah. But, I have a Bison hunt in my future and would like my 300 Win Mag to be shooting a 180gr TSX at that time. Again, what to do? Can I buy factory 180's w/ TSX's and tune the barrel to them?...yes = boring. Any suggestions for a starting point with this issue would be greatly appreciated. I can take the easy way out, but where would the fun in that be? M | ||
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Nothing wrong with the boss until you have to shoot it without hearing protection. You would be wise to invest in the conventional recoil assembly which replaces the muzzle brake with a weighted barrel tip. For reloading, get max velocity with your 180 gr TSX and then set you're boss. Start with Rl22 powder or R19 powder, the RL22 will be more comfortable to shoot and give you the highest velocities. The 300 win mag for Bison is a little under powered, you will be limited to an atlas joint shot to bring one down with one shot. Most guides like 375 bullets and larger (45-70 is popular). John | |||
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really a cool concept, if loud. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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BBBH, Your spot on about the muzzle blast. I sight in with the brake and set my CR attachment to the same setting for the field (I've confirmed at the range that both have similar impact on paper). I have a couple of friends with hearing loss due to this rifle and if weren't for the CR attachment, I wouldn't have bothered with it. Great tip for the handloading start. But at max velocity, which setting should I start with? Re: Underpowered for Bison. You'll have to walk me through on this one. Unless I'm missing something, the 300 Win Mag has similar energy to the 45-70 at the muzzle with Fed's factory 180gr TSX being 3502 ft/lbs and Buffalo Bores 430 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N.(1,925fps/M.E.3,537 ft.lbs). The 45-70 has a sectional density edge of .303 to the 300's .271. The bullet construction, however, will have to go to the 180gr TSX (this is one tough bullet with an excellent pedigree). I am a big fan of large diameter, heavy, and slow. I own a Marlin 1894ss in 44mag, have shot my uncle's Marlin 1895 in 45-70, and have seen the potential for big and slow. Being on the 44 mag carbine end of campfire discussions, I can relate to where you're coming from. The 300 Win Mag, however, is no slouch and neither is the 180gr TSX. Please enlighten a skeptic. M | |||
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Energy is a strange concept when it comes knocking down critters. It favors velocity more than anything, and as such, it distorts a cartridges capabilities quite a bit. The 300 win on bison, when punching through heart and lungs, doesn't create sufficient tissue damage for a fast bleed out. Large animals don't experience shock like deer do, and as such, having large diameter holes are the way to go. A lot of this is fresh in my head as my wife want's to do a bison hunt, they were telling her the 338 win mag might be on the small side, a 375 or above would be appropriate. I heard it from quite a few folks, most of them experienced guides/buffalo hunters. She opted for a ruger #1 in 450/400 NE nd will be taking next year. Most would suggest the 45-70 for the recoil shy. I was trying to sell her on taking the 458 win mag, but she's a little skeptical as to my motives, something about falling flat in the snow in front of a camera. I guess I'll never get a viral video on you tube. As for the 300 win mag, my first HP rifle was a browning A-bolt in 300 win mag, I was a believer until I saw the 338 in action. Still a very versatile caliber, in fact, my wife shot her first chronograph with that rifle.... John | |||
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Get rid of the picture Moon. If your not married go to a porn site. This forum is for hunters, recreational shooters and benchers. Most are married and want to keep it that way. Divorces happen because of trash like that flashed in people's faces and sparking curiosity. The BOSS is good except hunting with. Can damage hearing. | |||
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Really, Divorces happen because of an avatar picture on a hunting site? Really? If your wife is wound up that tight do you really want to be married to her? Or are you just trying to pound your morality onto some one else. Not to be hard on you, there is nothing in that picture that would be considered immoral by any legal standard. In fact, Cosmopo publishes more risque pictures marketed towards women. Lighten up a bit. John | |||
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Sound advice on the current setting of BOSS as a starting point for my handload. Thanks The Bison advice also stands to reason, I know they're tough. Without borrowing a 45-70, I wonder if the 1894 would be up to the task? Currently, I'm working on a 250gr WFN cast load from Beartooth. At 200yds, out of the 20", barrel it has approx. the same energy as out of the muzzle of my 5 1/2" barrel SuperBlackhawk. This is campfire talk coming through again: What wouldn't you shoot, from 3 feet, with a SuperBlackhawk 5 1/2" barrel, 44 mag w/ a 250gr wide front nose cast bullet with 832 ft/lbs? I realize this is all hypothetical, but there is more mileage in a 44 mag carbine than people are willing to concede. The risk of this thread being hijacked is real, but branching in conversation is inevitable and I certainly welcome the feedback. M | |||
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You stand a good chance of success with a 300 win, a lot of people have taken them with less. I would feel bad about having to reload the magazine and have to shoot another three into one. Again, if you can hit the neck at the base of the skull, instant down, but you will have to be the judge. Are you planning on doing a guided hunt? If so, this may a bit more moot. If so, talk to your guide and see what he feels like. John | |||
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It would be guided. Clover Creek Ranch, here in Oregon, is the oldest for exotics. Fair chase is envolved and the people who own it come highly recommended from my game butcher, who came highly recommended from...etc. Confidence is high with these folks and talking with them about suitable calibers would make a lot of sense. There's no rush on this. With the economy down the way it is, it might be a couple yrs. before I can justify the expense. One can dream. Thanks again, M | |||
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Yeah, I had to cancel a hunt this year due to the economy, it can break your heart, but don't wait too long, life has a way of passing you by. John | |||
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Moonshot, Im also not entirely happy abouT your avtar picture,.. an considerate man would also provide a link to that site....  dont blame the devil for ones sins, its his job to tempt you, its ones own responsibility to resist. ..anyway who honestly dont like a subtle hint of split-tail?...IIRC, JC hung around with a hooker by the name of MaryMag. | |||
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Back on topic... If you want to load some TSXs in your rifle...do what I did for a local guy here... His rifle really likes Rem 180 grain corelokt...but he wanted to shoot 168 grain TSXs... so he picked up a box of Rem 180s for his 300 Mag..and a box of TSX's so I just pulled the 180 off the factory ammo and then reseated the TSXs... He just readjusted his scope a little for point of impact and went hunting... that's the cheap way to get 'factory' premium ammo... I talked him into the 168 TSXs as the Barnes supposedly build up pressure faster than similar bullet weights in other bullet styles... | |||
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A.R.: Until you pointed it out, I thought that avatar was a photo of a deer track! But I am somewhat disturbed to find that I've now been placed at risk of divorce -- and it's all your fault, you heartless marriage-wrecker! Can I come to your church to fight off the demons now roaming in my head? I'll probably never be able to look at a deer track again and still remain faithful to my wife. Moonshot: (Tsk, tsk, tsk) A .300 Winchester will provide far more trauma than that with which millions of bison were taken in the 1870s, mostly with one shot each. I personally think you're moving the wrong direction with the mono-metal bullet and would urge you to consider something like the 200 grain Nosler Accubond, but either will do the job on a bison much better than anything you could sling at them out of a .45-70, or even a .50-140 Sharps. As to what "guides" may say, well, the fact is that few of them know anything at all about guns, cartridges, or ballistics. They can only reason that "bigger is better", so if they saw a bison shot with a .338 and, for whatever reason things did not go well, then their reasoning says that a .375 would be better. Use and enjoy your .300 on your hunt. It will serve you well. | |||
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other way around .. a tsx will blow through a bison, from nearlt any angle, while one has to use better shot placement with a classic 45/70 ... the 300, with that bullet, is easily 2x the classic 45/70 .. and the 45/70 killed tens of millions of bison. a 300 win is a fantastic hunting rifle for all of north america opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffe is right. the 300 win mag is one of the truly great rounds capable of world wide hunting. The 300wm is at a pleasant gallop while the 30-06 is running at the red line. Notched down a bit the 300wm is easy on brass, even bulk packaged 180gr Rem. corlokts kill well and an honest 300 yd shot is in reach of competent shooters if the wind is not bad. 300's own 1000 yard competition. Lots of positives for the 300wm and very few negatives. The 30-06 is a pleasant, historical round but it is very much a step down from the 300wm. j | |||
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The issue was never one of blowing through, again, the issue was damaging enough tissue in the vitals. No need to sell me on a 300 win, owned one for years at shot quite a few critters with it. Bison are tough critters, and can absorb quite a few 30 cal rounds, no matter how fast they are pushed. Don't take my word for it, check around. John | |||
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If concerned about that increase frontal area to .338. .338 TTSX petalled out is a large damage hole and almost guaranteed to blow through everything. 338/06 or 338 Win Mag @ 210 TTSX | |||
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Josh hit the nail on the head with his post. The old first generation world wide hunters like Roy Wetherby, Elgin Gates and C.J. Macelroy relied on a .300 for most all of there hunting. They used 300 Wetherby's but back then the Win mag did'nt exsist yet. On the small side I've take P. dogs, fox, and roe deer. with a .300. on the large side moose and brown bear are the biggest I've taken with a .300 but on a bet I would use a .300 win mag on anything that walks this planet. I shot my bison with my .35 whelen and it worked fine but ether of my .300's would have done the job just as well. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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I hunt with a group of 13 that make an annual hunting trip to Colorado for Elk. We will have 8 Model 70 Winchesters with Boss in .300 Win mag in the group. I load for most of them, but we all use the same load of either 76 or 77 grains of RL-22 and 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet. The speed is 3100 fps or very close, depending on the barrel. The accuracy of these rifles are amazing, when you shoot enough to establish your rifles sweet spot. We have been using this combo for many years because very simply, it works. My son uses my old .300 Winny that has accounted for dozens of Elk. Personally I use the bigger bullets going fast after many years with the Winny. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Big Boar, bison are not an especially tough animal. The main problem is that lots of hunters don't hit them well. Hit well, bison die like anything else. Actually for their size they are a little narrow side-to-side. The 300wm with a good hunting bullet, put in the right spot kills bison easily just like any other animal. One of the guys that advised me on caliber before I had this single shot built had killed both cape buffalo and lion with a 300wm. Not intentionally hunted but the situations dictated using the rifle he had in had. I have killed 19 African plains game animals with my 300wm single shot, maybe 70 or so feral hogs and a bunch of deer, etc. It works just fine. The 300wm is one of the great classic rounds. You can hunt the world with it. josh | |||
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This is a reality but the .30-06 will also do the same job. | |||
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Rolltop, not really. It would be closer to say that the 300win mag will do anyting with 180gr bullets that the 30-06 will do with 150gr bullets. The 300win mag is about 10% more powerful than the 30-06. Not a huge difference, but it is substantial. Of course the bigger cased 300's are more powerful than the 300win mag, but I have found an excellent balance between recoil, power, availability, accuracy and rifle weight that is hard to beat with the other rounds. We all have our favorites and the 300win mag is one of mine. The 30-06 is a fine cartridge but the 300 win mag will do anything the 30-06 will do plus a little more range and power. It is hard to beat a 300 win mag. j | |||
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What does the Boss do? Is it like a brake? | |||
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if you wish to correct a man over his judgement, the best place is a PM, not open confrontation. DIVORCES happen because people can't get along to thier agreements. everything is window dressing opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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fn invented it as a barrel tuning weight and brake.. works GREAT opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Actually divorces come about because one person breaks his covenant with God. My wife taught me that. Marriage is not a contract, marriage is a covenant with God where a single person makes a covenant with God to love, protect and cherish another human being regardless of the consequences. If some stupid pictures of a body part is endangering a marriage there are other much more substantial problems. One the other hand, it is just low class to put up skanky pictures of body parts in a public forum. Let us have good manners and respect for others rule the day. Or not. j | |||
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You go on with your bad self! If your friend killed a cape buffalo with a 300 win mag, ask him if he would do it again. Of course, after he unintentionally shot a cape buffalo, and a lion, he may still be in trouble from poaching. The 300 win is a fine cartridge, after all, it can almost do everything a 338 win mag can do, and nothing more than a 30-06 can do. Again, a fine cartridge, but it still has limitations. As far as bison, they are pretty tough critters. I know few people who have hunted them, and they all say so. They are not known to go into shock from high velocity bullets. Penetration is complete, but a small hole is a small hole. On a deer with the lungs the size of a lunch bag, and a frail nervous system, a 257 wby puts them down right there. On a buffalo, with lungs the size of 5 gallon buckets, and a nervous system that can withstand direct hits by lightning, weighing almost a ton, small holes mean a long time between being shot and death. Again, I am not sure where you got your information, did you do any research, or do you feel that the 300 win mag is the hammer of thor and can kill anything instantly? Don't believe me? Go to youtube and do a search on bison and 300 win mag, watch for yourself. Dead, yes, but how fast is primarily the issue. As for me, I have killed deer, pigs, elk, squirrels, and bear with a 300 win mag. I will tell you, from personal experience, the difference between the 30-06 and the 300 win mag is about 1/2 the difference between the 300 win mag and the 338 win mag when it comes to putting critters down right there. John | |||
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Originally posted by big bore boar hunter.
My expiriance is far differant from this. On large tough animals the differance between a 30-06 and a 300 win is light years. I cant claim I know the reason why for sure but it is'nt the 15% in velocity or the 20% greater energy. I have seen many large brown bear and moose easly put down with a 300 win mag. I have also seen a 8&3/4 foot bear soak up 17 rounds 14 of them from a 30-06. The other three were from my .338 to hold the bear between reloads. To take it a step further I would say that I see little differance between the .300 and .338 on game. It just seems that my expiriances have been kind of oppisite of yours and I thought it worth sharing. Nothing wrong with any of the cartridges mentioned above. I have all of them. Actully at least two of each and 3 .338's I use them all it's just that a .300 works really well for most things. My first choise for buff or elephant would not be a .300. It would be big and it would be a double. Having said that if someone gave me a free hunt with the sipulation that I had to take them with a .300 I'd go. I had a client back in the mid 80's. He hunted with an old Southgate .300 Wetherby built on a FN action. He told me about getting into a Buffalo culling operation while he was on a hunt. The only rifle he had was the .300 and he took quite a few of them with it. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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Thanks For the info. | |||
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You must have some superior strain of armour plated buffalo. I put my bull down with one 435 gr T/C Maxi-hunter lead bullet from my .54 cal Green River Hawken rifle. I have a friend that put a Custer State Park bull down with one shot from his .270 Win. Last year he killed his buffalo bull with his .22-250, although it did take two bullets to kill it. Last month he shot another bull buffalo, again with his .270 Win, and again with one bullet. I have another friend that worked on two SW Montana buffalo ranches and he regularly used his .22-250 to kill sick or problem buffalo. I would consider the .300 Win with a proper bullet and shot placement adequate for any animal in North America. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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Big Boar, your logic fails you. The 338 win is a definite step up from the 300 win mag, just as the 300 win mag is a real step up from the 30-06. All three have their place, but none of them are similar. You will have to excuse my if I don't use youtube as a research tool. I've never been on there. We have buffalo on many of the ranches in our area and I am quite familiar with them. I have never had much interest in shooting one simply because they are so docile. They remind me of my cattle too much. I did have a couple of friends out at the ranch last winter that were hunting buffalo on a place near ours and both easily killed their buffalo with Sharps rifles and black powder loads. Those are 500gr bullets at around 1250fps. Not exactly high power. Heart shot, or CNS shot they die pretty easily and it is not like they are going anywhere. Buffalo are just not that tough. As for my friend that advised my on this custom 300 win mag, you know not of who you speak. He was authorized to use that rifle in those situations by a government official and it was perfectly legal. He would not hesitate to use a 300 win mag again in the same situations. He frankly has taken big game animals from the world over in numbers that would bring tears to your eyes. His trophy rooms belong in the Smithsonian. Literally 100's of trophy animals. He is a fine man that has hunted at a level most of us can hardly imagine. I trust his judgement. The 300 win mag is a fine rifle round that can hunt the world over. It OWNS the 1000yd competitions where the 30-06 is not used. It hunts well from close range, small deer to longer range elk, eland and hartebeest. You can find ammunition all over the world for good reason, it is one of the best rounds and it deserves its reputation. There are many fine cartridges out there , but the 300 win mag may be the best. With that said I used a 375 flanged on my elephant this year. The 300 win mag is a great round but it not an elephant round. Of course, your experience may vary. j | |||
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Life is too short to get into pissing matches, never was there a doubt if someone would be well served with a 300 win mag for most things in north america, but it does have some limitations. | |||
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I base my statement based on elk and pigs, I am not rich enough to shoot enough brownies to make a legitimate comparison, and the blackies go down pretty easy. I notice that with the 300 win, it was hit or miss for shattering a large shoulder bone and exiting through, even with protected points. Usually I would try to avoid the shoulder and go for a good heart lung shot and wait for them to fall. Usually within 50 yds. Not bad performance. Just not much better than the 30-06, where the animals would usually go down after a 100 yd trot. With the 338 mag, I can hit the front shoulder, shrapnel the lungs, and break the far shoulder, and leave an exit wound slightly larger than a golf ball. Instant crumple. If I wanted the meat, a heart and lung shot usually crumples them fast, usually within one or two steps. The 30-06 and 300 win would normally sport 180 gr Nosler partitions. The 338 would run a 225 partition or now a 225 TSX. It is very possible that with different experiences we both could see different things. John | |||
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Big Bore, you sound very impressed with yourself. Yikes. j | |||
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Fir those of you that believe the .300 Winny is "light years" ahead of the .30-06 you're entirely entitled to your opinion. I, on the other hand, will continue to do anything with my .30-06 that you do with your .300 Magnum and will not hesitate to take the opportunity to prove the results. | |||
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Hey Rolltop, want to shoot for pink slips? 500, 800 and 1000 yards, bring your best 06 and we'll see how equal the 30-06 is to the 300. We'll measure velocity and calculate energy at all ranges as well. I'd prefer a rifle with Turkish walnut and blued steel. I don't need dies, I've probably got 5 sets of 30-06 dies. Jeez, guys. Can we agree that the 30-06 will not do ANYTHING the the 300 win mag will. Just as cases with more capacity will do more than the 300 will. This is like some kind of pitiful sickness you boys are suffering from. The 300 win mag is fine, the 30-06 is ok; but they are not the same. j | |||
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I don't know maybe the 06 dose a better job. I'm just trying to share my expireances. What I've been tring to say is that the .300 works well at the upper end. I'd agree that a deer dos'nt know the differance but if your expiriance give's you confidence in your 06 then go with it. I'm not here to try and convince you that my expireance is any more valid, I'm only shareing it for those who care to hear it. I did even shoot a pritty big brown bear with a 30-06 one time I have two of them but for this one I used a .300.  DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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AK, cool bear. Where is that? When you say it is a pretty big brown bear, just how heavy is that? I've never seen anything except a black bear (that was brown colored), there is something about your bear's face that makes it old and large. Do you know about how old it was? thanks, josh | |||
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Hey M, Just waded through the thread, but somehow missed where anyone answered your question. First off, if you like the way it is shooting with some specific Factory Ammo, write the Setting down where you can not loose it. Then if you want to use that Factory Ammo again, you already have the correct Setting for it, or close to it. I know of two ways that will work with the BOSS in Developing Loads. You can always start Low and work your way up until you get Pressure Indicators(CHE&PRE are the best). Then back off a few grains in a 300WinMag to give yourself long Case Life. And then load enough so you can "tune the BOSS" for that Load. Or you can act as if there is no BOSS on it and use the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method to locate the best Harmonic without moving your Setting at all. Then fine tune by adjusting the Seating Depth. Either way will work well without needing to use Politically Correct Bullets(PCBs). Best of luck to you. | |||
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