I think that is good news !
I am not sure i will run out and get one but its a cartridge that deservs a second chance.
I would have to say for tree stand Black bear a 77 RSI in .358 would be as good as my 45/70. A standard short action model 77 with a 22 inch tube would be cool too, put a low power variable leupold onit and go.
That .375 ruger Hornady will be interesting, would be a great all around alska big game round.
mabye the new guy at ruger will be ok.
How about a #1 in 35 whelen and or 9.3X62 ! ...tj3006

jeffe,
Ah crap ... there go the rebarrel jobs . Any idea when she's due?
Cheers...
Con

I wonder if Ruger is doing it as competition to the 338 Federal which has a more effecient bore diameter for the 308s modest case capacity.

Since the 358 is my fav medium bore, and I built my first rifle in that caliber, I am a little partial to them...

the 358 rides again!!

Now, everyone call them and tell then 1x12 twist OR FASTER...

jeffe

If Olin produced an offering in the .358 Win. beyond the current seasonal runs of the dated Silvertip, they could have a horse race with Federal’s .338. CP.

jeffe,
It's got to be a 1:12", surely, as that's what they're using on the 350RemMag. They wouldn't possibly be stupid enough to throw a 1:16" in there ... would they?
Cheers...
Con

Ruger seems to know their markets fairly well and there's little doubt that a few .358s can be moved from time to time.

Both the 338-08 and 358 Win however aremuch better suited as big game rounds in such guns as the Savage M-99, Winchester M-88, Win M-100, and rifles of this style.

The use of a .358 (or even the 338-08) in a bolt rifle seems such a waste when one can use the 338-06 or 35 Whelen instead.

Here's my thoughts on the 358 it's accuracy and the "short range" myths...

the fedearl premium match 308 ammo, which is at least good for 500 yard target shooting, in a bolt gun, is loaded with 168gr bullets at 2600FPS ... bc of.447


the jeffe premium game load of the 358 winchester uses the sierra GK 225gr at 2525fps, bc of .411 ...

so, similar BCs, close velocites, and 50% more weight ...

in a bolt gun the 358 is a well submoa rifle for me

in lever guns, it tends to open up some more than that.

jeffe

quote:

Both the 338-08 and 358 Win however aremuch better suited as big game rounds in such guns as the Savage M-99, Winchester M-88, Win M-100, and rifles of this style.

Yep the 358 in the Win M100 is a jewel!

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
jeffe,
It's got to be a 1:12", surely, as that's what they're using on the 350RemMag. They wouldn't possibly be stupid enough to throw a 1:16" in there ... would they?
Cheers...
Con

I dunno! I have two Ruger M77 tang safety rifles in .358 Win. and both have 1 in 16" twists. Guess they figure with nobodby loading 250 gr. bullet loads that a 1 in 16" is sufficient. Winchester used a 1 in 12", Savage and browning used the 1 in 12", so why in hell does Ruger go with the 1 in 16" twist?
As long as I'm bitching about that, let's add wht in hell did Remington go with a 1 in 16" twist for the .35 Whelen and why did Ruger follow suit? Methinks they had their heads up their collective asses.
Paul B.

It was the well loved .308 Sako which retired my tang saftey Ruger .358 Win. If I was to need another woods rifle, an all weather version of the .358 incarnation would seem to be about perfect.

I have been writing Ruger just about every year saying that if they brought out a .358 Winchester they would have the market to themselves. I was hoping that when they brought out the stainless Frontier Carbine that they would include the .358 but they didn't...I am hoping they will now and put one of their excellent front sights on it...

What I don't understand is that Browning has a lever action in .358 but has never thought to bring out their bolt gun for it....maybe they will now.

...and on Gunbroker the other day one of those M77/tang safety .358 16.5" barreled carbines sold for $1300.00 with no box...

Bob

I always thought that Ruger should bring out the RSI in .358 Win.At the NRA convention in Phoenix, many years back, I asked about it was was given a very rude, "No fucking way!" My wife who was standing next to said, "Any you buy stuff from these people?" I said, "Not any more. Not new ones anyway." And that's the way it's been ever since. I'll buy used, but not a new one.
I think the .358 got a bit of a bad rap anyway, being called a "brush gun", and it kicks, and other BS. It's good to at least 250 yards with a 200 gr. bullets, and that does not sound much like a short range brush gun to me. Even the slower 250 gr. load would be good to at least 200 yards, again, sounds to me like it's a bit more than "just a brush gun."
Makes one wonder?????? How come the relatively puny .35 Remington is so popular while the .358 Win. and .35 Whelen literally wither on the vine? What is it about most .35 caliber cartridges that make them so repugnant to the average American shooter? The really curious thing is those that do give either the .358 Win. or .35 Whelen an honest try usually end up really liking them. I wonder if it's the fact that most "egg-spurts" in the gun rags say they kick too hard. Maybe old Col. Charles Askins was right. Maybe they do wear lace panties.
Paul B.

What gun WRITERs need to do is to put the best BC hunting bullet with good top loads and equal sight in, and compare drop, say 200 yd zero and then shoot the 358, etc. next to others to see the difference.

The also need to do wound channel tests measuring penetration and volume of damage like they do with pistol rounds. It would EDUCATE more people as to what bullets actually DO in flight and on target instead of what they do in a gun magazine measuring stats which are sometimes not indicative of real world performance.

I personally would want a 225 in a 358, better bc than 200's, more speed than 250's. I would use it to at least 300.

Below are 225's bc .41,2500fps-200 zero, fps lbs

200 0.0 0 2103 2208
250 -4.2 6 2009 2016
300 -10.5 13 1918 1837
350 -19.1 21 1829 1672
400 -30.4 29 1744 1519


Let's see, looks like it drops at 350 what a 270/06 class drops at 400. Gives up 50yds trajectory, look at energy. Heck a handgun with 225's at 1000 fps kill deer year after year. Let's not factory 'momentum' as this is FAR more lead than a 100-165gr that many deer often get hit with....and die.

Just for grins, is a 210gr .338 at same speed:

200 0.0 0 2093 2043
250 -4.2 6 1997 1860
300 -10.5 13 1904 1691
350 -19.3 21 1814 1535
400 -30.7 29 1727 1391

This is real world from 338 Federal, but it could do perhaps more than 2500fps mv

iirc, the 225gr gameking, at 2525, is soemthing like 18inches mroe drop than the 308 match ammo...

...at 500 yards

200 at game, from a rest, is about my max range, regardless of rifle

jeffe

quote:

Both the 338-08 and 358 Win however aremuch better suited as big game rounds in such guns as the Savage M-99, Winchester M-88, Win M-100, and rifles of this style.

The use of a .358 (or even the 338-08) in a bolt rifle seems such a waste when one can use the 338-06 or 35 Whelen instead.

Following that logic one could argue the same for using a 30-06 or 280 instead of 308 or 7-08, etc.

Jeffe, what load and barrel length are using to get 2500+ using the 225 Sierras? You answered a similar question a while back but I don't remember your answer. Thanks, Lou

I personally with a 200 zero would feel you could hold at the backline at 300 on deer or larger game and drop it fat heavy slug thru vitals. Penetration and energy is not a question.

The niche for these cartridges is short to moderate range but I believe they are capable within a shooters skill. They cover a lot of 'real world hunting' applications no doubt. For timber they would be a preferred ctg. in my mind.

Lou,
my "fav" 358 is a 22" douglas, using win748 powder.. start at 46 gr and work up. it's a slightly compressed load.

MPBR 6" with a 200 yard zero
22" tube
358 - 225gr at 2525
2.5" high at 100, 2.6" max above LOS @114 yards, -5.9" at 267 yards, -10.4@300yards

MPBR 6" with a 200 yard zero
300 Weatherby 220gr Matchkings at 2850
25" tube
1.6" high at 100, 1.7"max above @117yards, -6"at 291 yards, -7" at 300yards...

So, a weatherby loaded with the BEST match bullet has a Max point blank range of 24 yards farther than a 358 loaded with a hunting bullet and the webby is only 3.4" less drop at 300 yards....

if you change the 358 to 25", you only pick up TWO YARDS more range


what does all this mean? How far can you shoot, and is 24 yards important?
jeffe

Thanks Jeffe, that's the recipe I remember. Lou

I think that's great. I don't know who running Ruger and Hornady but,

Both companies are doing a great job coming up with ideas that are actually worthwhile in the field.

As far as the 358 I would personally lean towards a 338 Federal. Not taking anything away from the 358 because it's a very efficient round that gets the job done. I had one in a Browning BLR. Very nice gun that shot extremely well, I never had the opportunity to hunt with it because I ran into someone that wanted it more than I did.

I look at this the exact same as the 338-06 vs Whelen issue. On paper, I think the 338 caliber has a small, and I mean small, advantage. In the field absolutely no difference. I just feel that the 338's really shine with 200-225gr, and 180's do a great job on deer and 250's for the big stuff. The 358's shine with 225-250gr, 200's for deer but I don't feel either 358 cartridge has the powder capacity to deal with the heavy for caliber bullets.

I made my decision to go with 338-06's, can easily be loaded down to Federal velocities and runs shy of the 338 WM velocities. Another part of the decision is based on limiting reloading room inventory. That way I can optimize as far as brass and dies are concerned.

So hats off to Ruger, I think they will sell some guns.

When is winchester gonna ramp up the .358 brass then? Or will it be Hornady?

SD,
agreed, the 338-06 is far better than the 338-08... but you can basically chunk the same SD bullet, in the same case, about the same speed.. more or less.. that's pretty PII "
jeffe

I have never had a problem finding new Winchester brass for the 358. Just saw a bunch of it at the big Reno show for $17.50 for 50. I also just ordered 200 cases from Grafs. It's not hard to find. Lou

I loved the balance of the ctg in my old 338-06, it was for me a do it all rifle, and had the bolt handle not fallen off I might have kept it.

Remington fixed it but then someone wanted it more than me........

If Ruger made a #1 A in 338-06 and 6.5x55 I could be happy hunting a lot of game with both.

I guess a 'generic' 338 Win Mag and 270 would do the same job.

But many of us on AR like things different than chocolate and vanilla.

I do believe a 338 Fed and 358 win in a bolt carbine would be a bang up timber rifle for most game in this country no matter what shot angle.

Al Miller LOVED his 350 Rem Mag for a do it all gun, in the Rem 600. Cast bullets to 250 speers from squirrel, rabbits, deer to grizzly

I suspect he like Elmer Keith had lots of real world experience.....success and failures with many tools of the trade.

Too bad Nosler is doing away with the 225 gr BT in favor of the same bullet in the accubond flavor. The 225 gr BT would be a bully bullet in the .358 Winny upto and including elk and moose.

Unfortunately the 225 BT won't work with the 358 Win in short action rifles. Works great in long actions when launched from a 35 Whelen.

I HAVE been shooting the Speer 250gr Spitzer through .358s for over 30 years now and after black bear, untold deer taking hits from every angle imaginable including the full length from a Texas heart shot, I have yet to recover a single bullet and have never had an animal go further than 40yds and that was only because it was on the dead run and it was a raking shot.

All I can tell you is the bullets and caliber and "little" .358 just work really well.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
Unfortunately the 225 BT won't work with the 358 Win in short action rifles. Works great in long actions when launched from a 35 Whelen.

Just gotta load them single shot style.

"I dunno! I have two Ruger M77 tang safety rifles in .358 Win. and both have 1 in 16" twists. Guess they figure with nobodby loading 250 gr. bullet loads that a 1 in 16" is sufficient. Winchester used a 1 in 12", Savage and browning used the 1 in 12", so why in hell does Ruger go with the 1 in 16" twist?"



I think Id rather have a BLR in 358 anyway. Nice to see some more practical chamberings hitting the market though.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
"I dunno! I have two Ruger M77 tang safety rifles in .358 Win. and both have 1 in 16" twists. Guess they figure with nobodby loading 250 gr. bullet loads that a 1 in 16" is sufficient. Winchester used a 1 in 12", Savage and browning used the 1 in 12", so why in hell does Ruger go with the 1 in 16" twist?"



I think Id rather have a BLR in 358 anyway. Nice to see some more practical chamberings hitting the market though.

I HAVE had an original run BLR(read= heavy with the belly mag) in .358Win. for a long time and the combination is more accurata than you could imagine for a lever gun. It functions flawlessly and takes a licking and keeps on ticking. My first .358 was in a Winmodel 88, but ah went to a die hard collector who "needed" it much more than I needed it. A couple of bolt guns in .358 and then back to the BLR. They shoot, they work and they are accurate. What more could a person want in a rifle?

I've got a pre 64 M-70 FWT .358. I've come to love that little rifle. It carries like hand full of air. It is quick handling. I've topped it with a set of ghost rings.

That little rifle has become my go to hog rifle as it is just a perfect combination. I load 225gr Nosler BT. They fit fine in my gun and I also use the 225gr TSX.

One thing I've got to say about the little bugger is that she kills way out of proportion to what it would indicate on paper. I call it my .375H&H light. This little cartridge is truly a mud stomper in a small package.

Kind of like one of those little Tai boxers. Looks like a 11 year old boy, weighs about as much as French super model. Hits harder than middle weight boxer on crack!

I love the .358 and if the twist is right will have one in a 16.5" stainless Ruger so I can save my prized M-70 from the ravages of the west Texas hog swamps.

Will the 1 in 16 twist not shoot 225's?

I'm just a dumb hillbilly and I don't know all this technical stuff. All I know is I've had 5 .358 's used .250 speer's they shoot one ragged hole at 100 yds. I've shot 26 bear 2 elk and 1 moose with the Little .358 and it puts them right down at all pratical hunting ranges.
As to kick, I don't feel anything more than a .308.
I shot my little browning at the range a few days ago in a t shirt, no kick.
I only wish Browning would add an inch or two to their blr. I get 2340 out of my little blr but would like a little more bbl. As to twist I don't know what it should be but the browning is perfect. I had a custom bult .358 on a Rugar action and it had a 1-14 twist (shilen bbl.) and it didn't shoot worth a hoot.

Maybe w/ this new introduction (or rebirth)Ruger will see fit to have their friends at Hornady crank out some factory ammo.

Hard Luck. I'm thinking your early Browning has a 1 in 12" twist barrel. I have one and mine is 1 in 12"
My Savage 99 is also a 1 in 12" twist. My two Ruger 77s and a Kodiak Mauser have the 1 in 16" twist.
I'm thinking that because Winchester dropped the 250 gr. loading a long time back that Ruger figured nobody would need a 1 in 12" twist. They made that same mistake with their .35 Whelens as well.
Paul B.

...am I incorrect or did I read somewhere that the new Rugers chambered in .350 Remington Magnum were 1/12 twist. If that is the case maybe the new .358s will be the same.

Bob

One can only hope.
Paul B.

If it does have the right twist I will probably have to buy one.

Heck, even if it has the wrong twist, you might as well get one. Probably be another fairly short run anyway. Maybe it'll get Winchester to get off their dead arse and start producing a bit more ammo. One nice thing about the .358 Winnie. Even if "Big W' totally stops making ammo, you can always use .308 Win. brass and run it through a .358 Win. die. Trim slightly to square off the necks, load and shoot. The forst load from that brass will not be quite as accurate as will the second loading which is now using fire formed brass.
You might as well get one. You know you want it.

Paul B.