GS,

Very sorry to hear about your mom. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Thanks guys.

It's funny but the simple things, finding your keys, getting organized for work, cleaning the house, feeding the cat, all seem like monumental tasks right now.

Everything that goes wrong seems huge, and crushing, no matter how small, and, some of the stuff is HUGE and crushing.

jwp475 owe you an apology.

If I wanted bullshit and abuse I'd be posting on Lee Martin's site.

I find it kind of funny that most of this is about shooting animals that really shouldn't be HUNTED with a handgun, but with a rifle.

There are a few things that I just noticed? Marko, you've used .510 GNR?
I don't believe you on that. I still don't see how a cartridge 1/10th of an
inch shorter with the same OAL, and same bullet is going to be a MUCH slower
cartridge, unless it's designed for higher pressures, and has less case capacity.
Explain that. I could load 45 Colt brass as hot, if not hotter then the 454, provided the cylinder was strong enough, and mine was.

More likely it's the same case as the .500 Linebaugh, just shortened a bit.
If the cylinder length limits the cartridge length, then what difference does it make? I'd also like to know how come the .510 GNR brass is so cheap, and the .500 Linebaugh so expensive?

Also, you are bashing a design that is pretty much exactly what the .500JRH is to the .500 S&W, with the exception that the .500JRH was designed slightly before the .500 S&W came out, but, used that case as a basis for fitting into the FA.

quote:

Ya know what, we are all being rediculous here. We have our favorite gunsmiths, favorite cartridges and favorite loads........and right or wrong, nobody will convince us otherwise regardless of the proof or evidence. In each of our eyes, we have the best, built by the best and it shoots the best. But ya know what else......we have something in common. We all like to shoot/hunt with handguns and just love them in general. In other words......a truce. I like them all and I really like the AR forums.

You got that part right.

Woody, Daniel, Marko, thank you for the prayer and kind words.

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
Thanks guys.

I find it kind of funny that most of this is about shooting animals that really shouldn't be HUNTED with a handgun, but with a rifle.

There are a few things that I just noticed? Marko, you've used .510 GNR?
I don't believe you on that. I still don't see how a cartridge 1/10th of an
inch shorter with the same OAL, and same bullet is going to be a MUCH slower
cartridge, unless it's designed for higher pressures, and has less case capacity.
Explain that. I could load 45 Colt brass as hot, if not hotter then the 454, provided the cylinder was strong enough, and mine was.

It's purely a matter of case capacity. For the shorter case to do the same thing it needs to be loaded to higher pressures -- PERIOD. Same thing with the relationship between the .480 and .475. You won't get the upper end performance out of it without skyrocketing the pressure. Never hunted with the GNR and never claimed to have and was merely inquiring about the claim before being soundly attacked. But that's okay, I am more resilient than my attackers.

What do you mean that we are hunting animals with handguns that should be hunted with rifles? You will get a lot of opposition to that statement here as we are handgun hunters -- that's what we do and we (collectively) have not found our big-bores to leave us wanting more. I have a .416 Remmie that doesn't make me feel more secure than when I have my .475 in my hands........

quote:

Thanks guys.

It's funny but the simple things, finding your keys, getting organized for work, cleaning the house, feeding the cat, all seem like monumental tasks right now.

Everything that goes wrong seems huge, and crushing, no matter how small, and, some of the stuff is HUGE and crushing.

jwp475 owe you an apology.

If I wanted bullshit and abuse I'd be posting on Lee Martin's site.

I find it kind of funny that most of this is about shooting animals that really shouldn't be HUNTED with a handgun, but with a rifle.

There are a few things that I just noticed? Marko, you've used .510 GNR?
I don't believe you on that. I still don't see how a cartridge 1/10th of an
inch shorter with the same OAL, and same bullet is going to be a MUCH slower
cartridge, unless it's designed for higher pressures, and has less case capacity.
Explain that. I could load 45 Colt brass as hot, if not hotter then the 454, provided the cylinder was strong enough, and mine was.

More likely it's the same case as the .500 Linebaugh, just shortened a bit.
If the cylinder length limits the cartridge length, then what difference does it make? I'd also like to know how come the .510 GNR brass is so cheap, and the .500 Linebaugh so expensive?

Also, you are bashing a design that is pretty much exactly what the .500JRH is to the .500 S&W, with the exception that the .500JRH was designed slightly before the .500 S&W came out, but, used that case as a basis for fitting into the FA.

FIrst I want to send out a prayer and condolences for your loss.

I do not agree with this statement "really shouldn't be HUNTED with a handgun, but with a rifle." Th 454, 475 500 Linebaugh and 500 JRH with Proper bullets and loads all take them very well indeed. After all we are in the Handgun Hunting Forum. That's what we do.

The 510 GNR and the 480 Ruger are a like compairison. Ruger shortened the 475 Linebaugh and then housed it in a platform large enough to house the 475 Linebaugh. The 480 gets close to the 475, but does not match the ballistic of the 475 at like presures. The 480 Ruger and the 510 fills no need. The 500 JRH is a shortened 500 S&W with a smaller rim diameter and is housed in a much smaller platform than is the 500 S&W. The purpose of the 500 JRH was to enable a .500 diameter round to be house in the Freedom Arms model 83

Again you or compairing apples to oranges.

This discussion is about the 525 grain WLFN load in .510 diameter cartridges and has nothing to do with Jack's boys againts Reeders boys. I do not think that either man wants thier names used in that manner.

Again my heart goes out to you in your time of loss

Actually the 480 does serve a need, most people can't handle the recoil of the 475, and most people can handle the recoil of the 480.

Also at the time the 480 was released, there really weren't any options for more power than a 44 mag in a factory gun unless a guy was going to dish out $1500 for a mdl 83, or similar $ for a custom ruger. Most dismiss the 480 saying it can't hang with the 475, but it was never designed to, nor does it need to.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Actually the 480 does serve a need, most people can't handle the recoil of the 475, and most people can handle the recoil of the 480.

Also at the time the 480 was released, there really weren't any options for more power than a 44 mag in a factory gun unless a guy was going to dish out $1500 for a mdl 83, or similar $ for a custom ruger. Most dismiss the 480 saying it can't hang with the 475, but it was never designed to, nor does it need to.

The same thing could have been accomplished with reduced loads and/or lighter wieght bullets in the 475L. The 480 was an answer to a question not asked and has thus faded from production

Buffalo Bore offers reduced loads that control recoil very well. The 475 is still going strong with at least 3 Manufacters loading ammo for it. In fact the 480 was introduced in the Super Redhawk which is larger than a Super Blackhawk

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Actually the 480 does serve a need, most people can't handle the recoil of the 475, and most people can handle the recoil of the 480.

Also at the time the 480 was released, there really weren't any options for more power than a 44 mag in a factory gun unless a guy was going to dish out $1500 for a mdl 83, or similar $ for a custom ruger. Most dismiss the 480 saying it can't hang with the 475, but it was never designed to, nor does it need to.

"It's purely a matter of case capacity. For the shorter case to do the same thing it needs to be loaded to higher pressures -- PERIOD."

If you seat the bullet out further, the case can have the same, or MORE capacity then a longer case, depending on bullet design.

An advocate of big bullets should realize that they aren't using a lot of that case for powder, but for seating the bullet.

Here are some pictures that illustrate that with the .45 Colt. Ross got greater case capacity using the 45 Colt case because of the bullet design
allowing more case area, due to where the bullet was seated.



The .500 Linebaugh has, IIRC, some ignition problems due to the huge case, and choice of powders, in particular in cold weather.
Perhaps the shorter case allows you to use less powder, at slightly higher pressure, and, get similar ballistics?

I have heard folks mention the big guns kill like 375 H&H rifles, so I stand corrected on the hunting comment.

Paul has a point. The nature of the beast seems to be regardless of common sense, people want their names on cartridges, so they tweak them a little. .50 WE
and Ruger .480 come to mind.

The purpose, aside from the name stuff, of the shorter cases is to use less powder, get less recoil, and slightly less ballistics.
Cartridges have a sort of sweet spot that gives you optimal results for the case capacity relative to the bullet. Sure you give up the extreme, high
end, but, you get less powder use, less recoil, and similar ballistics at the lower range of the cartridges.

Great example is the .308 vs. 30-06 debate. IIRC, the 30-06 is considered 'overbore', and requires considerably more powder to give the same results with
bullets up to 180 grains. It walks away with heavy bullet results, because the heavy bullets start eating case capacity in the .308.

Same with the .480, .510 GNR, and the .500JRH. Concept is to use less powder, and, when you load reduced loads you are getting away from possible detonation
problems with H-110 and 4227.

By the way: I run into these problems since I'm trying to load between 300-400 grain bullets, at near the minimum powder charges for .475, 500 Linebaugh
and .500 Maximum, using 4227, and H110. The case is so big, even minimum loads are pretty high, due to the threat of detonation.

The quest is to find a case that gives you the ballistics with the least amount of powder, and a full case of it. That's what the shorter cases do better then the longer ones, except with heavy bullets.

Why? For what I will shoot, they are PLENTY, and, I don't want to wreck my wrist any worse then I have already. I have had a love affair with these big guns since about 1980, when I started looking at heavy 45 Colt/Linebaughs, and the 454. I really like having them, and, want to shoot them. I also realize that you can only shoot so many full power loads with over 40 ftlbs of recoil before it gets you.


JWP475:
You have a point with the 525's. The recoil is the same as the 400 grain .475 Hornady factory load, Recoil Energy of 36 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 25 fps, out of my 500 Max.
That's shootable, and, I will trust YOUR hunting experience using those bullets. If it was me, I'd soft cast em, or use a pure lead jacketed bullet, since the bullet weight
is going to give me penetration, and I like expanding bullets.

Out of a standard gun, it's a bit more: Recoil Energy of 40 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 29 fps. Most people can't, or shouldn't shoot that kind of recoil.

Huh?

Let me try, one more time.

Put in priority:
Full cartridge case.
Adequate ignition.
Pick propellant.
Determine ballsitics.
Adjust cartridge length so with a given bullet weight, the case is full with that length bullet,
to achieve the ballistic goal, with that propellant.

For example:
I want a 300 grain bullet going 1350 fps in .500 Linebaugh, using 4227.

I find the length cartridge that gives me that,
with the seating depth with the bullet I'm using, making sure it doesn't jump crimp.
Make sense?

GS, you keep talking about seating the bullets farther out in shorter casess inorder to increase case capacity to equall the longer cases. That can be done only if two equirements are met. 1- the revolver cylinder must be throated for the bullet's longer lenght. 2- the crimp grooves must be moved farther down to allow a proper crimp. This means one must have a custom bullet mold made. Buying cast or jacketed bullets means that the crimp groove is in the wrong location to seat the bullets longer


The longer case is a lot simpler and the longer case can easily be loaded down to the ballistic levels of the shorter case.


A 350 grain .510 bullet has a sectional densety (SD) of.192 the 525 grain .510 has a SD .288

Woodrow S and Daniel77

I will check out both of your recommedations on your pet guns. Going to the range tomorrow morning after a full (stressfull) work week. I'm looking forward to denting some primers. I almost feel bad I raised so many peoples blood pressures by asking what I thought was a simple question. Some of you guys are more over the top than the guys on the big bore or double rifle forums! That takes some doing!
Gentlemen it is Friday night, have a cocktail!

Thanks,

375er

I'm not worked up in the least. I asked a simple question and the excrement hit the fan! That being said, it just took me 45 minutes to cover 2.5 miles worth of traffic and I am going to now pour myself a stiff one!

Enjoy your shooting session!

Speaking for only me, I wish I could have that cocktail but I'm turning in early tonight. Leaving for the woods at 4 in the a.m. for three days of hunting. Deer in the mornings and dove in the afternoons. The Win Mod 70 in '06 will be the primary (pre '64 flavored) but if one's in handgun range I'll be ready. I always find it difficult to choose which to take...a .41 or .44.

I've been thinking, wouldn't it be cool if we were all in the same deer camp??

It certainly would! You have the perfect excuse not to drink tonight! Good luck on your hunt tomorrow and we are expecting a full report! Most importantly, enjoy yourself!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
GS, you keep talking about seating the bullets farther out in shorter casess inorder to increase case capacity to equall the longer cases. That can be done only if two equirements are met. 1- the revolver cylinder must be throated for the bullet's longer lenght. 2- the crimp grooves must be moved farther down to allow a proper crimp. This means one must have a custom bullet mold made. Buying cast or jacketed bullets means that the crimp groove is in the wrong location to seat the bullets longer


The longer case is a lot simpler and the longer case can easily be loaded down to the ballistic levels of the shorter case.


A 350 grain .510 bullet has a sectional densety (SD) of.192 the 525 grain .510 has a SD .288

jwp475:

The bottom line is you have to design a mold, and bullet for the case size. Not that hard if you have the ear of Kelly Broost at Cast Performance, in the old days, etc. and,
you only offer a couple factory offerings.

Ross Seyfried and John Linebaugh argued that the advantage of the 45 Colt was that both the above requirements were already in place, and it was easier to use good brass, and tight chambers then
redesign the wheel.

Freedom Arms took a different approach, since they designed their own bullets, they had an instant 100% market share on cases and bullets out of the block.

I don't really get the throat requirement, since this discussion has been about head space being rim based, and, a lesser included round is going to be shootable in a gun designed for a larger case.

Also, changing the placement of the crimp groove is not that big a deal, since folks like Hawk will do it for you, and, last time I did it, no charge.
IIRC, using 265 grain .475 bullets designed for the Webley, they asked you to let them know, and they would put the crimp grove in place for the .475 Linebaugh...

The appeal of these setups are for gunsmiths they have a pretty exclusive line, I believe it's called vertical integration, where you control first the design, then the gun, cartridge, and bullets.
Some do it, and keep the price reasonable, or more then reasonable, and others really stick it to you.

jwp475, you know this stuff already. Don't even know why I have to type it...

Also, with lower pressure rounds and the right powder grove location may not be an issue, since you don't need a crimp grove, just a good crimp to hold the bullet in place.

Detonics used 185 grain bullets in .45 with no crimp grove, and high pressure, but they didn't jump crimp. We used mainly HS-6 back then, IIRC. I opted for the 200 grain flying ashtrays, with a crimp grove, but don't think it was really necessary.

By using the lighter bullets, crimp jump becomes less of an issue, as well.

Intended Game: Buffalo, big bears, and other nasty critters
Bullet Featured: .511 435 gr. WFNGC
Muzzle Velocity: 1450 fps; 12” Encore barrel w/ brake
Effective Range: 100 yards +/-
Comment: As the max load for this cartridge it’s a handful. Most often used in Encore barrels, it can be used in revolvers..

The above looks REAL close to some other loads folks use in .500 revolvers...

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
GS, you keep talking about seating the bullets farther out in shorter casess inorder to increase case capacity to equall the longer cases. That can be done only if two equirements are met. 1- the revolver cylinder must be throated for the bullet's longer lenght. 2- the crimp grooves must be moved farther down to allow a proper crimp. This means one must have a custom bullet mold made. Buying cast or jacketed bullets means that the crimp groove is in the wrong location to seat the bullets longer


The longer case is a lot simpler and the longer case can easily be loaded down to the ballistic levels of the shorter case.


A 350 grain .510 bullet has a sectional densety (SD) of.192 the 525 grain .510 has a SD .288

jwp475:

The bottom line is you have to design a mold, and bullet for the case size. Not that hard if you have the ear of Kelly Broost at Cast Performance, in the old days, etc. and,
you only offer a couple factory offerings.

Ross Seyfried and John Linebaugh argued that the advantage of the 45 Colt was that both the above requirements were already in place, and it was easier to use good brass, and tight chambers then
redesign the wheel.

Freedom Arms took a different approach, since they designed their own bullets, they had an instant 100% market share on cases and bullets out of the block.

I don't really get the throat requirement, since this discussion has been about head space being rim based, and, a lesser included round is going to be shootable in a gun designed for a larger case.

Also, changing the placement of the crimp groove is not that big a deal, since folks like Hawk will do it for you, and, last time I did it, no charge.
IIRC, using 265 grain .475 bullets designed for the Webley, they asked you to let them know, and they would put the crimp grove in place for the .475 Linebaugh...

The appeal of these setups are for gunsmiths they have a pretty exclusive line, I believe it's called vertical integration, where you control first the design, then the gun, cartridge, and bullets.
Some do it, and keep the price reasonable, or more then reasonable, and others really stick it to you.

jwp475, you know this stuff already. Don't even know why I have to type it...

Also, with lower pressure rounds and the right powder grove location may not be an issue, since you don't need a crimp grove, just a good crimp to hold the bullet in place.

Detonics used 185 grain bullets in .45 with no crimp grove, and high pressure, but they didn't jump crimp. We used mainly HS-6 back then, IIRC. I opted for the 200 grain flying ashtrays, with a crimp grove, but don't think it was really necessary.

By using the lighter bullets, crimp jump becomes less of an issue, as well.

I have done all of that at one time or another, but the real point is why would one want to if he didn't have to. With the 50 Linebaugh I do not need any special bullet molds or bullets that all cost extra. I can shoot over the counter bullets and factory loads with as Buffalo Bore loads said bullet.

Kelly Broost does not make molds and does not own Cast Performance Bullets and has not for several years. You keep repeating something tht you read or heard without know or relizeing the comprimises of such.

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
Intended Game: Buffalo, big bears, and other nasty critters
Bullet Featured: .511 435 gr. WFNGC
Muzzle Velocity: 1450 fps; 12” Encore barrel w/ brake
Effective Range: 100 yards +/-
Comment: As the max load for this cartridge it’s a handful. Most often used in Encore barrels, it can be used in revolvers..

The above looks REAL close to some other loads folks use in .500 revolvers...

This is the advertised velocity from Buffalo Bores web site


.500 Linebaugh Ammo - 435 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N. (1,300fps/M.E.1,632 ft.lbs.) - 50 Round Box (Large and dangerous game up to 2000 lbs.)

The one thing I don't understand is why 500L brass is so expensive, as Buffalo Bore brass while very good quality is a lot more expensive than the Hornady 510GNR which is only 1/10" shorter. One would think that as the 500L became a bit more popular the cost would come down, but that is not the case. Anyone got an explanation for this? Luckily, when I bought my BB 500L brass I bought enough for a long time.

RANGE REPORT

I shot my friends .44 mag Redhawk this morning. It definitely has some recoil to it, but not unmanageable. Also shot about 100 rds. of .38 special and a half a box of .45 auto. It was time to quit after that.

WoodrowS-----I will check out the Ruger Bisley hunter for sure. I would also like to try the .41 magnum as Daniel77 suggested.

What do you all think of the .41 mag. as a deer only hunting round? There is something to be said for not getting beaten up if you don't have too. I've seen the brass, but never had the chance to shoot one.

Thanks all for your replys.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GS:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwp475:
...


I have done all of that at one time or another, but the real point is why would one want to if he didn't have to. With the 50 Linebaugh I do not need any special bullet molds or bullets that all cost extra. I can shoot over the counter bullets and factory loads with as Buffalo Bore loads said bullet.

Kelly Broost does not make molds and does not own Cast Performance Bullets and has not for several years. You keep repeating something tht you read or heard without know or relizeing the comprimises of such.

Heard he'd sold it right after I bought my .500 Max brass from him, and some 525's. Driving trucks on ice in Alaska?

Anyway, I'd rather pay 58 bucks for 50 factory rounds then 2.50 a round from buffalobore.

Buffalobore charges a dollar a CASE for brass,for .500 Linebaugh, and, a bit under 3 bucks a round for CAST BULLET LOADS:-(

That's absurd.

Buy any of the big guns you can find, for a decent price, that you like, and shoot em. .500 Linebaugh would be nice, since you can then shoot .510 GNR ammo in it. Don't believe you can do the reverse.
.500 Max and you can shoot all three calibers.

The .41 Magnum is a GREAT round. Problem is finding a gun to carry and shoot it out of, and, buffalbore .41 magnum ammo is around 2 bucks around, so better be hand loading.

jwp475: Have you pulled apart a .510 GNR to find out what bullet he's using, and, if it's all that different from a standard .500 Linebaugh 350 grain bullet?

I wonder if the .510GNR guns will shoot .500 Linebaugh ammo.

If so, then why would you need custom bullets? Plus, the velocities that the loads are getting, except for the 435 grain, don't indicate they are using maximum loads anyway.

"The one thing I don't understand is why 500L brass is so expensive, as Buffalo Bore brass while very good quality is a lot more expensive than the Hornady 510GNR which is only 1/10" shorter. One would think that as the 500L became a bit more popular the cost would come down, but that is not the case. Anyone got an explanation for this? Luckily, when I bought my BB 500L brass I bought enough for a long time."

One might say the same about .500 Linebaugh revolvers as well. Does ANYONE make a factory gun?

Anyway, theory is that Hornady thought the S&W 500 was going to be a .475, and they bought a ton of .475 brass, getting a good price.

Buffalobore and Hornady had a lawsuit over who had rights to produce and sell Linebaugh ammo. Bad blood still around, and, a ton of .475 brass=inexpensive factory .475 Linebaugh ammunition. I've got around 300 rounds of JHPXTP from Hornady that was all bought at equal to .44 magnum ammunition prices, or around a dollar a round.

Brass for the .475 was Starline was 190 plus shipping, for 500 cases.
Starline is selling .500 Linebaugh for the same. That's .38 cents a case. So, some prices are dropping, and, paying 3 bucks a round would make sense, perhaps if you were shooting gold or silver bullets...

I sure have noticed around here that shops were selling ammo at Obamanation prices, trying to keep ammunition in stock, since everyone, rightly, has a great fear of this government, and administration.
California is only many times worse. Still, Obama created a nation wide run on guns and ammunition, and, the supply and demand side is just starting to catch up...

If you can find it, a strong Ruger, in 45 Colt would be plenty for what you plan on using it for, and, ammunition and components would be HALF any of the stuff we've been discussing.

Unless you are hunting car sized animals, you don't need anything heavier then 45 Colt, with heavy loads, in a strong gun.

I have no interest in shooting 350 grain bullets in a 500 Linebaugh if I want to shoot a bullet in that wieght category I'd rather use a 360 grainer in a 454

quote:

jwp475: Have you pulled apart a .510 GNR to find out what bullet he's using, and, if it's all that different from a standard .500 Linebaugh 350 grain bullet?

I wonder if the .510GNR guns will shoot .500 Linebaugh ammo.

It can't shoot .500L - you could shoot GNR rounds in the Linebaugh, though, although I see no reason for it. I too wouldn't use 350 grainers in the .500. But that's just me.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

jwp475: Have you pulled apart a .510 GNR to find out what bullet he's using, and, if it's all that different from a standard .500 Linebaugh 350 grain bullet?

I wonder if the .510GNR guns will shoot .500 Linebaugh ammo.

It can't shoot .500L - you could shoot GNR rounds in the Linebaugh, though, although I see no reason for it. I too wouldn't use 350 grainers in the .500. But that's just me.

Marko:

If the chambers and throats are cut for .500 Linebaugh, even though it says .510 GNR, you would be able to shoot both.

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

jwp475: Have you pulled apart a .510 GNR to find out what bullet he's using, and, if it's all that different from a standard .500 Linebaugh 350 grain bullet?

I wonder if the .510GNR guns will shoot .500 Linebaugh ammo.

It can't shoot .500L - you could shoot GNR rounds in the Linebaugh, though, although I see no reason for it. I too wouldn't use 350 grainers in the .500. But that's just me.

Marko:

If the chambers and throats are cut for .500 Linebaugh, even though it says .510 GNR, you would be able to shoot both.

But it's not, that's the point. It it is cut to the length of a .500 Linebaugh, then it's a .500 Linebaugh and not a .510 GNR -- same thing applies to a .45 Colt and a .454 or a .480 to a .475 Linebaugh. Reeder will build you a .500 Linebuagh if you want one......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

jwp475: Have you pulled apart a .510 GNR to find out what bullet he's using, and, if it's all that different from a standard .500 Linebaugh 350 grain bullet?

I wonder if the .510GNR guns will shoot .500 Linebaugh ammo.

It can't shoot .500L - you could shoot GNR rounds in the Linebaugh, though, although I see no reason for it. I too wouldn't use 350 grainers in the .500. But that's just me.

Marko:

If the chambers and throats are cut for .500 Linebaugh, even though it says .510 GNR, you would be able to shoot both.

But it's not, that's the point. It it is cut to the length of a .500 Linebaugh, then it's a .500 Linebaugh and not a .510 GNR -- same thing applies to a .45 Colt and a .454 or a .480 to a .475 Linebaugh. Reeder will build you a .500 Linebuagh if you want one......

I guess when you really think about it, unless the gun is WAY cheaper, the .480 Ruger and .510 GNR should never be the chambering for any gun, since you might as well get the gun setup for the bigger caliber...

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

jwp475: Have you pulled apart a .510 GNR to find out what bullet he's using, and, if it's all that different from a standard .500 Linebaugh 350 grain bullet?

I wonder if the .510GNR guns will shoot .500 Linebaugh ammo.

It can't shoot .500L - you could shoot GNR rounds in the Linebaugh, though, although I see no reason for it. I too wouldn't use 350 grainers in the .500. But that's just me.

Marko:

If the chambers and throats are cut for .500 Linebaugh, even though it says .510 GNR, you would be able to shoot both.

But it's not, that's the point. It it is cut to the length of a .500 Linebaugh, then it's a .500 Linebaugh and not a .510 GNR -- same thing applies to a .45 Colt and a .454 or a .480 to a .475 Linebaugh. Reeder will build you a .500 Linebuagh if you want one......

I guess when you really think about it, unless the gun is WAY cheaper, the .480 Ruger and .510 GNR should never be the chambering for any gun, since you might as well get the gun setup for the bigger caliber...

Exactly......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

jwp475: Have you pulled apart a .510 GNR to find out what bullet he's using, and, if it's all that different from a standard .500 Linebaugh 350 grain bullet?

I wonder if the .510GNR guns will shoot .500 Linebaugh ammo.

It can't shoot .500L - you could shoot GNR rounds in the Linebaugh, though, although I see no reason for it. I too wouldn't use 350 grainers in the .500. But that's just me.

Marko:

If the chambers and throats are cut for .500 Linebaugh, even though it says .510 GNR, you would be able to shoot both.

But it's not, that's the point. It it is cut to the length of a .500 Linebaugh, then it's a .500 Linebaugh and not a .510 GNR -- same thing applies to a .45 Colt and a .454 or a .480 to a .475 Linebaugh. Reeder will build you a .500 Linebuagh if you want one......

I guess when you really think about it, unless the gun is WAY cheaper, the .480 Ruger and .510 GNR should never be the chambering for any gun, since you might as well get the gun setup for the bigger caliber...

Exactly......

Will you share your popcorn, Daniel?

Sure thing Marko.

I'm feeling mischievous this morning, and a thought just occurred to me. Why don't you guys just consider the .510 GNR the .500 Linebaugh "special"?

Cuz there ain't nothin' special about it......

quote:

Originally posted by GS:


I guess when you really think about it, unless the gun is WAY cheaper, the .480 Ruger and .510 GNR should never be the chambering for any gun, since you might as well get the gun setup for the bigger caliber...

The reason someone would get one of these is because they want a custom in that caliber. Just like my 45 Colt I am having Gary Reeder doing right now. I get the Ruger Super Blackhawk all customized up with a nice 5 shot cylinder and everything else Gary does to his customs. So I don't need to get a 454 Casull customized, because I want a 45 Colt and not a 454 Casull.

It comes down to personal choice, if I wanted a 500 Linebaugh, then I would of got one, but I chose the 510 GNR, personal choice.

Gary did a 475 Linebaugh for me as well, but I would still like to get a 480 Ruger build as well, why some of you may ask, because that is what I want.

If I wanted to shoot one of the biggest, powerful straight wall handgun round, I would be shooting my 500 Mag's only.

There is the inherent logic that there is something special about the .44 Special. Guys get guns chambered for it,
and, for the life of me, if I was going to get a .44, I'd get the magnum, and shoot specials in it.

The platform, a custom, has to have SOME advantage to the lighter, smaller round for me. My complaint about the .44 Special is
that the REAL cartridge is between .44 special and 44 magnum, and, there really aren't many guns designed to take advantage
of the lesser pressure. Yet, IIRC, the .44 special is the number one or two chambering for custom guns with Reeder.

I guess a .357 frame with .44 special is kind of cool, but, you have scandium guns that will handle low end .44 magnum
rounds, even though they are huge.

I guess it comes down to what you want, and, I've always wanted the ability to use the full house loads, and bigger cases,
though the .500 Maximum is teaching me a few lessons about that.

So, the .510 GNR, for me, would have to be avaliable in a smaller more portable package then the .500 Linebaugh, and, I don't see that.
Also, from the ballistics, I don't think the .510 is as low a pressure cartridge as the .500, but, on that I could be wrong.

All that said, each to their own, and have a Merry Christmas.

PS
John Taffin just posted the one gun he wants under a tree is a .44 Special Target from the 20's...

GS, you are correct for a smaller case toe equall the ballistics of a larger case the pressures must be higher in the smaller case. This we have seen for many decades 38 Special/357Mag, 44 Special/44Mag, etc.

If one purchases a 475 he also has a 480 but not visa versa. Just like if one has a 357 Mag he also has a 38 Special. I can shoot all of the 510GNR in my 500 Linebaugh, but I could not shoot the 500 Linebaugh in a 510 GNR. Unlike the 500 Maximum which is on a longer larger frame the 510 GNR is built on the same frame s the 500 Linebaugh. The 480 is to the 475 Linebaugh as the 510 GNR is to the 500 Linebaugh

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
GS, you are correct for a smaller case toe equall the ballistics of a larger case the pressures must be higher in the smaller case. This we have seen for many decades 38 Special/357Mag, 44 Special/44Mag, etc.

If one purchases a 475 he also has a 480 but not visa versa. Just like if one has a 357 Mag he also has a 38 Special. I can shoot all of the 510GNR in my 500 Linebaugh, but I could not shoot the 500 Linebaugh in a 510 GNR. Unlike the 500 Maximum which is on a longer larger frame the 510 GNR is built on the same frame s the 500 Linebaugh. The 480 is to the 475 Linebaugh as the 510 GNR is to the 500 Linebaugh

That is why it comes down to personal choice. Is anyone wrong for there choice? I don't think so.

I never bought a gun to shoot special or shorter rounds. Just like the guys shooing 45 Colts or 454 Casull's in a 460 Mag, I never like the idea. I buy the gun for the caliber I intend on shooing in it.

I like the idea of a 44 Special also. But if I went the route, I would just have one built in a 44 Special.

We all have reasons why we like what we like. That is why there are so many choices..

I agree.

Also, even though I despise the fact that FA can't give JRH credit for doing it first in a .50, or Ruger won't give credit for to Linebaugh
by using the original cartridge, or anything a unique gunsmith has done, that has been copied without credit, or slightly modified, like the .480 Ruger, and renamed,it's
all good that we have the choices, even though the naming and actions might give us a bit of a bitter taste in our mouth when we
think of the folks that do it.

On that note, I want to wish all a Merry Christmas, and thank God that we have so many choices, and aren't limited to 45 Colt or 454, as we were when
I started out.

God Bless

Merry Christmas

GS

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
GS, you are correct for a smaller case toe equall the ballistics of a larger case the pressures must be higher in the smaller case. This we have seen for many decades 38 Special/357Mag, 44 Special/44Mag, etc.

If one purchases a 475 he also has a 480 but not visa versa. Just like if one has a 357 Mag he also has a 38 Special. I can shoot all of the 510GNR in my 500 Linebaugh, but I could not shoot the 500 Linebaugh in a 510 GNR. Unlike the 500 Maximum which is on a longer larger frame the 510 GNR is built on the same frame s the 500 Linebaugh. The 480 is to the 475 Linebaugh as the 510 GNR is to the 500 Linebaugh

I agree.

Also, even though I despise the fact that FA can't give JRH credit for doing it first in a .50, or Ruger won't give credit for to Linebaugh
by using the original cartridge, or anything a unique gunsmith has done, that has been copied without credit, or slightly modified, like the .480 Ruger, and renamed,it's
all good that we have the choices, even though the naming and actions might give us a bit of a bitter taste in our mouth when we
think of the folks that do it.

On that note, I want to wish all a Merry Christmas, and thank God that we have so many choices, and aren't limited to 45 Colt or 454, as we were when
I started out.

God Bless

Merry Christmas

GS

quote:

That is why it comes down to personal choice. Is anyone wrong for there choice? I don't think so.

I never bought a gun to shoot special or shorter rounds. Just like the guys shooing 45 Colts or 454 Casull's in a 460 Mag, I never like the idea. I buy the gun for the caliber I intend on shooing in it.

I like the idea of a 44 Special also. But if I went the route, I would just have one built in a 44 Special

We all have reasons why we like what we like. That is why there are so many choices..

The question is why would one not purchase a revolver that can shoot both the shorter GNR as well as the Linebauhgh chambering, insstead of being limited to the shorter round only. I like the 44 Special, and I can shoot them in my 44 mag. Why be limited to the 44 Special only?

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

That is why it comes down to personal choice. Is anyone wrong for there choice? I don't think so.

I never bought a gun to shoot special or shorter rounds. Just like the guys shooing 45 Colts or 454 Casull's in a 460 Mag, I never like the idea. I buy the gun for the caliber I intend on shooing in it.

I like the idea of a 44 Special also. But if I went the route, I would just have one built in a 44 Special

We all have reasons why we like what we like. That is why there are so many choices..

The question is why would one not purchase a revolver that can shoot both the shorter GNR as well as the Linebauhgh chambering, insstead of being limited to the shorter round only. I like the 44 Special, and I can shoot them in my 44 mag. Why be limited to the 44 Special only?

Personal choice, I guess. You like shooing smaller cases in a larger chamber, that is cool as well. But I don't like to do it, because the point of impact is different and you have to make sight adjustments. I prefer to have a gun set up with one load that shoots the best in that gun and stick to it. We all have reasons why we do what we do, right wrong or whatever. And it gives me another excuse to buy another gun...

I see your point, not have to re-zero