Rich, unfortunatly many states do not allow hunting with auto pistols. Pa. is just one of them, otherwise I would love to try my 1911 in 10mm Auto with 200gr hardcast.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
You are picking the extreme end on purpose to slam a cartridge Gary designed to duplicate the ballistics of the 500L as John designed it, which was NOT for the super heavyweights. Therefore, the 510GNR does in fact duplicate the 500L as designed by it's creator. Ain't no different than both of us racing identical street legal Corvettes to see who is the better driver, except you installed drag slicks when I was'nt looking and drag slicks ain't legal on the street. Kinda underhanded. I would still bet that the 510GNR can spit the 525 out just as fast as the 500L. Did you ever try it? If not, go ahead do it and tell us about it. Why you? Well you made the claim it can't.

Evidently you are the one who hasn't done much experimentation with your .500 Linebaugh with regard to load development.

How can you stand by the claim that the .510 GNR is the ballistic equivalent of the .500 Linebaugh if it cannot duplicate the upper end loads?? With the caveat that it is done at reasonable pressures. Slamming the cartridge? Not really -- although it is an answer to a question that wasn't asked since the .500 Linebaugh fits in a normal length cylinder. I merely questioned the claim and somehow you have declared my challenge to the claim invalid or unfair because I want to know what the cartridge will do on the upper end with heavy bullets. Do you not see the gaping hole in your argument?

Oh, and I ran slicks on the street for years......

Redhawk, you sure are a testy SOB. The man is considering a .44 and it is a good choice. Why do you jump on me when I say a revolver is a lot of fun to hunt with? Then you start with monster guns that he does not need. Yes, I like the .475 but will never kick a .44 under the rug.
What do YOU need for deer? A bench with sandbags and a huge caliber single shot pistol?
I don't understand why my opinions of hunting tee you off so much. I could care less how you hunt but I don't think you are a real hunter anyway. I don't think you can hit ANY animal off hand at 100 yards either, with ANY of your fancy guns.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Redhawk, you sure are a testy SOB. The man is considering a .44 and it is a good choice. Why do you jump on me when I say a revolver is a lot of fun to hunt with? Then you start with monster guns that he does not need. Yes, I like the .475 but will never kick a .44 under the rug.
What do YOU need for deer? A bench with sandbags and a huge caliber single shot pistol?
I don't understand why my opinions of hunting tee you off so much. I could care less how you hunt but I don't think you are a real hunter anyway. I don't think you can hit ANY animal off hand at 100 yards either, with ANY of your fancy guns.

No one gives a rip what you think. You don't know me from Adams house cat, and make stupid statements like that. You act as if you are the only person that can shoot handguns, and are the only true hunter.

A legion in your own mind....

Why don't you show us instead of hiding behind the keyboard?

Well now, just to move this one back closer to topic; 375er, recoil from the .375JDJ can be a good bit more than what you may be accustomed to from the .357 Herret. The 220 FP loads are running about the same velocity as the Herrett (at least the way I load them) with about half again as much bullet. The 300 grain loads tend to have a good bit more recoil than the Herrett.

I am trying to come up with a comparison for you, but the recoil in my experience is a bit different as well; with the Herret being a bit sharper than the JDJ. Also, my JDJ barrel is ported and my Herret barrel is not.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Why don't you show us instead of hiding behind the keyboard?

I really do not have anything to prove to you at all. You are not on my list of people I need or want to impress. I don't feel the need to keep showing a picture of a old can I shot at 100 yards, or a bunch of targets I shot just to stoke my ego like you have.
I guess when you are old and have nothing better to do, then pat yourself on the back and tell the world how great you are, just to make yourself feel better.

Don't try to make this more than what it is. You are like them Democrats in Washington DC, when you can't talk about the topic, you switch subjects to take the focus of yourself. Kind of like the fat kid talking about someone else, so they don't look at you.

What this is now is, a case of mind over matter, I don't mind and you don't matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
You are picking the extreme end on purpose to slam a cartridge Gary designed to duplicate the ballistics of the 500L as John designed it, which was NOT for the super heavyweights. Therefore, the 510GNR does in fact duplicate the 500L as designed by it's creator. Ain't no different than both of us racing identical street legal Corvettes to see who is the better driver, except you installed drag slicks when I was'nt looking and drag slicks ain't legal on the street. Kinda underhanded. I would still bet that the 510GNR can spit the 525 out just as fast as the 500L. Did you ever try it? If not, go ahead do it and tell us about it. Why you? Well you made the claim it can't.

What gap or need does the 510 GNR fill? As you state it simlple was created to "duplicate" an existing factory loaded established cartridge. What's the purpose? Why all of the hostility?

I will stay wth the 500 Linebaugh and the 525 WLFN as they work to perfection

Woodrow S, it is only a matter of time before you have 3 or 4 of the gang here attacking you on anything you say. If Jack Huntington or John Linebaugh did not build it, or come up with it, it ain't shit.

It is no different than Jack Huntington coming out with the 500 JHR, when a 500 mag, 500 Special are out there, and the 500 Mag has been put into a Ruger Blackhawk frame, Sure it was the extended frame of the 357 Maximum, but still it fits in a smaller single action frame.

Any time Reeder's name comes up here, these clowns come out of the wood work.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:If Jack Huntington or John Linebaugh did not build it, or come up with it, it ain't shit.

Hey, you said it, not me.

Alex, you are a malcontent. It is only a matter of time before you start launching your attacks. You seem to bottle up you frustrations and every so often you have to let it all out. By all means vent.

You are using faulty logic, Alex. To take an existing cartridge and shorten it 1/10th of an inch to use in the same frame, defies logic entirely.

The .500 JRH was designed to fit in an FA 83 -- a true .50-cal in the smallish Freedom revolver. And you know -- as you've been explained before, that the design of the JRH actually predates the .500 Smith by a number of years. Pick another more appropriate example.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:If Jack Huntington or John Linebaugh did not build it, or come up with it, it ain't shit.

Hey, you said it, not me.

Alex, you are a malcontent. It is only a matter of time before you start launching your attacks. You seem to bottle up you frustrations and every so often you have to let it all out. By all means vent.

There you go using a word that does not fit the situation.

Was it not you questioning the 510 GNR, with your not trying to start an argument here B. S. ? You knew good and well what your intent was. Troll...
Others have said what they feel about using the 525 gr. bullet, it is not worth the extra punishment to the gun and you gain NOTHING. This is a point of diminishing returns..
Gary Reeder did not design the 510 GNR to shoot the 525 gr. bullet as John Linebaugh did not either.

Read you signature line.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
You are using faulty logic, Alex. To take an existing cartridge and shorten it 1/10th of an inch to use in the same frame, defies logic entirely.

The .500 JRH was designed to fit in an FA 83 -- a true .50-cal in the smallish Freedom revolver. And you know -- as you've been explained before, that the design of the JRH actually predates the .500 Smith by a number of years. Pick another more appropriate example.

I am not going to further this argument with you. Not worth my time arguing with a fool.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
You are using faulty logic, Alex. To take an existing cartridge and shorten it 1/10th of an inch to use in the same frame, defies logic entirely.

The .500 JRH was designed to fit in an FA 83 -- a true .50-cal in the smallish Freedom revolver. And you know -- as you've been explained before, that the design of the JRH actually predates the .500 Smith by a number of years. Pick another more appropriate example.

I am not going to further this argument with you. Not worth my time arguing with a fool.

No. That's not it. You are an unarmed man in this battle. You always resort to name calling when you are losing an argument. Don't you see the irony in you calling me a fool?

Now, let me help you with an example -- and a rather obvious one. The .480 Ruger is a similar cartridge to the .510 GNR. No real reason for its existence with the .475 Linebaugh already on the scene -- it can nearly do everything a .475 can do, but not quite -- unless of course you jack the pressures up through the roof.

Now, Mr. Physicist, explain why the 525 is beating the gun up more than lighter bullets at much higher velocities.

Me a troll? That's rich!

As far as my signature line goes, if the shoe fits.......

quote:

I really do not have anything to prove to you at all. You are not on my list of people I need or want to impress. I don't feel the need to keep showing a picture of a old can I shot at 100 yards, or a bunch of targets I shot just to stoke my ego like you have.
I guess when you are old and have nothing better to do, then pat yourself on the back and tell the world how great you are, just to make yourself feel better.

I do not pat myself on the back, my friends actually shoot better then I do. I have no ego at all, only a desire to pass on what I have learned. But you know too much but can't prove it. Your ego is out of sight You only want to show that you are smarter then anyone else here. You fail big time, you are just a little man behind a keyboard with a huge head and more money then a working man can spend. Funny that you have never posted a picture that shows how great you are. My pictures are to HELP others, not to brag. You are so great that you can turn a new shooter into an expert in a day, just show what you do.
I don't expect any group pictures or any other pictures because you are a blowhard.

Redhawk, you should have paid more attention in school.

malcontent - noun - a discontented person; a rebel.

MS HITMAN,

Thanks for your info on the recoil comparison. I'm not a huge fan of porting at all. I may end up going with the .44 mag or getting my own .357 herret set up. Going to shoot a friends 44 revolver this weekend to refamiliarize myself with the recoil of a 44. I'll probably end up with either a single shot or a revolver. I'm not sure which yet. It depends on the cartridge of course.

For the rest of you guys..........I'm glad to see there is so much passion in our sport of hunting, shooting, and reloading! That is a good thing. When the dust settles, remember we are all on the same team, or should be. I don't remember who said it, but the antis already have enough against us as it is, let's keep it friendly gents, O.K.

Thanks for all who have contributed!

375er......Jon

I would grab a stainless steel Ruger Super Blackhawk with a 5 1/2" barrel, load it with a cast 250+ gr SWC, WFN or WLN slug to 1200 fps or so and never look back. If you do not reload I'd pick up the Federal 300 gr CastCore load and, again, never look back. No deer shot at any angle at any reasonable sixgun range will keep that slug from fully drilling its body. A trigger job will help the Ruger a lot but many kill critters with bone stock Ruger's. Cheap to get into and darn effective. Just my $.02 of course.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Well now, just to move this one back closer to topic; 375er, recoil from the .375JDJ can be a good bit more than what you may be accustomed to from the .357 Herret.

375er, The 375 JDJ is much more powerful than a fella needs to drop even a Minnesota whitetail. Fact is, if you shoot a deer through the heart and/or lungs with a 357 magnum, 44 magnum, or 45 Colt they make a short dash, tip over, and die (I'm sure they'll fall to the 357 maximum, 10mm Auto, 41 magnum, 44 special, and 460 Rowland too, but I haven't used them). While larger cartridges - such as the various 454s, 460s, 480s, 475s, 500s, and real fifties being debated by some thread hijackers - will certainly kill your run of the mill Odocoileus Virginianus well and truly dead they are certainly not necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Well now, just to move this one back closer to topic; 375er, recoil from the .375JDJ can be a good bit more than what you may be accustomed to from the .357 Herret.

375er, The 375 JDJ is much more powerful than a fella needs to drop even a Minnesota whitetail. Fact is, if you shoot a deer through the heart and/or lungs with a 357 magnum, 44 magnum, or 45 Colt they make a short dash, tip over, and die (I'm sure they'll fall to the 357 maximum, 10mm Auto, 41 magnum, 44 special, and 460 Rowland too, but I haven't used them). While larger cartridges - such as the various 454s, 460s, 480s, 475s, 500s, and real fifties being debated by some thread hijackers - will certainly kill your run of the mill Odocoileus Virginianus well and truly dead they are certainly not necessary.

And when does necessity ever really come into play? And you are correct that one doesn't need a .500 anything for your average whitetail.......

I never intended this as a hijacking.......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Well now, just to move this one back closer to topic...

While larger cartridges - such as the various 454s, 460s, 480s, 475s, 500s, and real fifties being debated by some thread hijackers - will certainly kill your run of the mill Odocoileus Virginianus well and truly dead they are certainly not necessary.

And when does necessity ever really come into play?

True enough. I just want our new fellow handgun hunter to get off to a reasonably efficient start. A 44 magnum will allow a beginner much more trigger time per dollar than some custom three-shot Bisley conversion in 577 Deerpopper.

Gentlemen,
How about we all have a cold beer, scotch, or whatever your poison is! My dad was a veteran of WWII, and Korea. He always said, "Any day you wake up breathing, taking nourishment, and nobody was shooting at you is a good day" I've learned what I needed to know from my original question. How about we move over to Walter's discussions and go on to wives who are willing to post nearly nude photos of themselves on this website. Seems more worthy of an argument!

Thanks to you all for your comments!

375er----Jon

quote:

Originally posted by 375er:
How about we all have a cold beer, scotch, or whatever your poison is! I've learned what I needed to know from my original question. How about we move over to Walter's discussions and go on to wives who are willing to post nearly nude photos of themselves...

I like this new guy!

Nordrseta,
I work in a critical area of health care and my personal motto is "if I don't need a defibrilator it is just not that important". I see things that would make the average person sit in the corner sucking their thumb in the fetal position. I would much rather enjoy pictures of Coopercool's wife that she voluntarily posted here, in the spirit they were intended, than get into an argument of bullet weights in X caliber. Mind you, I enjoy it all, but lets keep it in perspective. Cooperscool and Dee.........rock on, keep up the good work!

375'er,

If you go the 44mag route check out the Ruger Bisley Hunter as I feel it is one of the best platforms going for a pure hunting handgun. The scope mounting feature is the best possible set up there is and the extra weight of the heavy duty 7.5" barrel soaks up recoil while keeping muzzle flip in check plus the scope mounted on the bbl helps too. The Bisley gripframe also does a lot to lessen felt recoil and helps control the gun. They also come in 41mag and 45LC but these are a bit harder to find. I have one in 44mag, had one in 41 Rem mag but converted it to a 410GNR(454 Casull necked down) and the 45LC I have was converted into a 455GNR(475 Linebaugh necked down).

As long as we're plugging our guns to 375er, I invite you to pick up a S&W 657 classic hunter (.41 mag). While it is completely true that the Rugers are a great bang for the buck, have a reasonably easy to tune action/trigger, and can handle heavy loads for longer, few ever regret buying a S&W. We also need more guys with your attitude in the 41 mag cult.

I'm more of a hitchhiker than promoter, but please also check out the thread on the handgun only hog hunt. I'll bet that if you come, you'll have the opportunity to try several different guns and eat pretty well also.

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
I'm more of a hitchhiker than promoter, but please also check out the thread on the handgun only hog hunt. I'll bet that if you come, you'll have the opportunity to try several different guns and eat pretty well also.

That's a sure bet! I will bring a battery of handguns.

quote:

Others have said what they feel about using the 525 gr. bullet, it is not worth the extra punishment to the gun and you gain NOTHING.

I am interested in you or others explaining the "extra punishment to the gun". What causes the "extra puniishment" ? The loads are not over pressure. /What s tyhe problem with the load

If you want to hunt with the t/c single shot platform, I'd recomend sticking with the contender. There are contender chamberings that will handle anything you'd likely take with a handgun, and the contender platform is a better weighted/balanced platform than the encore.

I had an encore for a couple months, just long enough to realize everything that had shot both had cautioned me to. The contender has an excellent feel in the hand, and the encore is bulky in the hand.

So get a cotender, packmeyer decelerators, and find a 10 or 14" barrel to your liking. I was partial to the 10" 357 maximum, potent and packable.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
If you want to hunt with the t/c single shot platform, I'd recomend sticking with the contender...So get a cotender, packmeyer decelerators, and find a 10 or 14" barrel to your liking.

Good points all. I started my handgun hunting with a T/C Contender. A fine starting setup is a 22 rimfire barrel and a 44 magnum barrel of the same length and sighting system. Train with the deuce-deuce, hunt with the magnum. +1 on the Pachmayr's.

Yes, Jack Huntington designed the .500JRH to fit a .500 caliber bullet in an FA 83, long before the WO express, but, I believe Jack knew the dimensions
that were going to be used for the .500 S&W, and he saw a great chance to kill two buffalo with one cartridge.
Yes, Jack Huntington cut the rim down on the .475 Linebaugh so it would also fit in the FA 83, and, now that's the
industry standard cartridge, sort of a Linebaugh/Huntington.

I fail to see how you can fault Mr. Reeder's logic
in getting the same ballistics out of a shorter case, since it's the same logic used for the 45 Heavy Colt vs.
the 454, the .480 Ruger for the .475 Linebaugh, and the .510 GNR is the same to the .500 Linebaugh.

Using heavy for caliber bullets, like the 525 seem to have a niche, and, 475 and Marko use it for what they are intended
for, extreme penetration, on car sized animals, like bison. It's not new, since the old buffalo guns have very similar
ballistics using heavy bullets to our current handguns.

The part I see different is they used softer bullets back then, and, you needed the bullet weight for penetration,
since the bullets expanded. These days, I kind of wonder about needing anything heavier then 420 grains, if you are
using hard cast bullets. Jack has pointed out that the penetration using his factory loads is pretty much end to end,
using the standard .500 JRH loads. The 525's didn't exit asian buffalo, nor did the 430's. Why? Very thick, bullet catching
skin.

One of the guys around here used a 370 grain LFN, at 1170 fps, out of a .480 ruger to kill a 2500 pound bison, and, it went
through, IIRC. WHY do you need any more penetration then that, if you are using a hard cast slug that doesn't expand?

I'll answer my own question: if the bullet hits bone, and deforms, that reduces penetration, and the extra bullet weight
is a plus for penetration.

Now, all that said, Gary Reeder has a different philosophy. He likes lighter faster bullets. I figure a 350 grain
LFN, at 1350 fps, one of the loads for the .510 GNR is going to penetrate 3 feet of bison. If that's not enough,
go heavier.

I see NO reason why 350 grains at 1350 fps isn't good enough for pretty much anything in the 48. However, I guess
anyone can come up with a situation, Texas heart shot on a bison, where they need more then 3 feet of penetration,
and therefore want heavier bullets. MY concern is there does seem to be evidence that penetration, WITH VELOCITY,
is king, not just penetration, unless you are using the guns for only one purpose.

I guess it gets down to what you like to hunt, what you like to shoot, and how often you want to shoot your guns.

Also, the .510 GNR has one HUGE advantage over all the other calibers: Andy Rowe's fantastic prices on .510 caliber ammunition.
It's almost cheaper to buy loaded rounds from him then just BRASS for the .500 Linebaugh. I'm going to order some of his 350's
at 1350 fps for a plinking load for the .500 Maximum I've got, simply because I don't want to waste my other handloads.

That said, that 'plinking load' has taken 3 elephant, IIRC.

Let's go on a Bison or Asian Buffalo hunt and you bring the 350 grain .510 and I'll use the 525 grain at 1100 FPS out of the 500 Linebaugh and you can test your theory.

I'd be honored to witness your first kill, bring plenty of ammo.

Some loads just plain work and the 525 WLFN just works

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Let's go on a Bison or Asian Buffalo hunt and you bring the 350 grain .510 and I'll use the 525 grain at 1100 FPS out of the 500 Linebaugh and you can test your theory.

I'd be honored to witness your first kill, bring plenty of ammo.

Some loads just plain work and the 525 WLFN just works

First, I need a MUCH bigger freezer. Second,

WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

MY 525's are loaded at 1350 fps. I certainly believe that they work, they have been for over 100 years, but out of rifles.

As for extra wear: You take a .357 Maximum, and compare the energy and pressure of that to a .500 Maximum. The former owner of my
gun ran 525's at 1550 fps. Gun wasn't designed for that kind of recoil, or pressure.

Keep in mind that Lee Jurras used a 180 grain bullet, at 1900 fps, out of a .44 Magnum to kill just about everything on the planet.

Same can be said of the .375 H&H. Shot placement, period.

I also know Jack's .500 JRH works. Same thing, shot placement, and, a 440 grain bullet at 950 fps seems to work on bison as well.

MOST people don't shoot car sized animals. 350's are fine for hogs, deer, etc. and the stuff most people shoot.

quote:

WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

To give credibility to your theory's or lack there off. Post a few pictures of big game that you have taken with the various calibers and bullets.

The 440 at 950 FPS has been used to take 600 too 800 pound Bison out of the 500 JRH. Broadside shots into the rib cage and it will do ok. On large Mature aanimals the full power loads are much prefered.

A 525 grain at 1550 FPS from a Maximum is indeed higher pressure than one should shoot in a .510 diameter 500 Maximum. 1550 FPS is 50 Alsakan or 50-110 territory. You continualy throw over pressure loads into the discusion to make the 525 load look less than optimum. Compare apples to apples by useing safe pressure loads. No one is advocating useing unsafe loads.

This conversasion is/was about the 500 Linebaugh and the 525 grin WLFN at the correct presure and that puts the speed at about 1100 FPS. Yes that load will break the shoulder and on Mature Bison or Asian Buffalo and exit out of the off side shoulder. I know this to be true, because I have done it. Since you haven't shot any animals, how would you know.

The 525 WLFN load with H-4227 is NOT abusive on the guns, in fact if it is easier on the guns than the lighter bullets driven to max velocity and the recoil is less abusive to the shooter.

When you have taken some game with "said load" let us know the results. They will be satisfing for sure.


The 525 gain WLFN is the hardest hitting load that I have ever shot an animal with, but that I mean judging from the physical reaction of the animals and that includes 454's, 475's, and 500 JRH. Incidently I own the very first JRG that was ever built, infact my revolver was the prototype and was used to develope the Buffalo Bore factory loads with.
I speak from experience, what are you speaking from?

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
I am not going to further this argument with you. Not worth my time arguing with a fool.

Nope, not going to continue arguing here, but you sure didn't waste any time running over to Reeder's site for affirmation. Pretty pathetic, really. Do you feel better now? I also find it humorous that you would refer to me as a clown. Take a good, hard look at yourself before calling others names........you may in the end refrain from name calling.

Ain't THAT the truth--

GUESS I SHOULD THROW THESE LETTERS AWAY, SINCE I HAVEN'T 'EXPERIENCED' THEM MYSELF...OH, I DID...


I'm getting out of this one, since I don't have a horse in the race, and life is WAY to short.

Jack's been my friend, and Gary has been at least cordial.

Quit while I'm ahead...

By the way: I don't give a flying f what you've shot, or with what. Light fast, heavy slow,
both have worked.
My mother died yesterday, and right now,
I think anyone that kills anything that isn't trying to kill you is a sick f...
I'll probably feel differently in a few days, but right now your hunting experiences rank about equal
to that slime you get between your toes.

If I was going to shoot a car sized animal, I'd do it with a RIFLE, like my 375 H&H, or get something bigger, like the 458 Lott,
and use 500 grain bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
GUESS I SHOULD THROW THESE LETTERS AWAY, SINCE I HAVEN'T 'EXPERIENCED' THEM MYSELF...OH, I DID...

It's pretty clear this is really about Jack Huntington's guys vs. Gary Reeder's guys.

I'm getting out of this one, since I don't have a horse in the race, and life is WAY to short.

Jack's been my friend, and Gary has been at least cordial.

Quit while I'm ahead...

By the way: I don't give a flying f what you've shot, or with what. Light fast, heavy slow,
both have worked.
My mother died yesterday, and right now,
I think anyone that kills anything that isn't trying to kill you is a sick f...
I'll probably feel differently in a few days, but right now your hunting experiences rank about equal
to that slime you get between your toes.

Greg, first of all, I am sorry to hear about your mother. My prayers go out to you.

I need to remind you that you are posting on a HUNTING forum.......

Greg, very sorry to hear of your pain with the loss of your mother. Your heart must be quite heavy. I will send a prayer for you and your loved ones.

Ya know what, we are all being rediculous here. We have our favorite gunsmiths, favorite cartridges and favorite loads........and right or wrong, nobody will convince us otherwise regardless of the proof or evidence. In each of our eyes, we have the best, built by the best and it shoots the best. But ya know what else......we have something in common. We all like to shoot/hunt with handguns and just love them in general. In other words......a truce. I like them all and I really like the AR forums.

Woody

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
Greg, very sorry to hear of your pain with the loss of your mother. Your heart must be quite heavy. I will send a prayer for you and your loved ones.

Ya know what, we are all being rediculous here. We have our favorite gunsmiths, favorite cartridges and favorite loads........and right or wrong, nobody will convince us otherwise regardless of the proof or evidence. In each of our eyes, we have the best, built by the best and it shoots the best. But ya know what else......we have something in common. We all like to shoot/hunt with handguns and just love them in general. In other words......a truce. I like them all and I really like the AR forums.

Woody

I'm all for a truce, but you too participated in the bashing I took on another site that Redhawk1 so galliantly launched. Y'all are simply wrong about the 525 grain bullets. But, I am willing to let it go.

You are right that we all love revolvers and handgun hunting, and that should trump all biases.