quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
.........do I sprinkle the pixie dust on the bullet or mix it in with the powder....and where do I get that stuff, anyway?!?!?!

Both, that is the only way to reach the "Magic Velocity" ...........

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
.........do I sprinkle the pixie dust on the bullet or mix it in with the powder....and where do I get that stuff, anyway?!?!?!

You have to mix it with the powder.

Make sure you get the pixie dust made by Pope, Gobang, Holy$hit, Rosenburg and Associates.
I saw a 475 L cylinder with oversized chambers wnen the guy mixed a little W231 in with the H110 instead of pixie dust.
The stuff is pricey too. But by the time you catch them (they BITE), clean them(the SMELL!), roast them(can't use the pot for anything else again), and grind them up(next batch of saugage has a certain musky tang) pixie dust. is worth the price.
Anything for that magic veloci....................what the heck is this thread about anyway???????

I'll jump into this thread now. I have always liked at least 1000fps. It seemed that all the bullets I have shot into critters testing media ect(lots of them) They all seem to preform a bit better if I had at least 1000fps behind them.

Yes you can kill stuff,with less vel I just seem to get better results with at least a 1000fps.

On the upper end for me is determined on how much recoil muzzle blast one can handle and if the bullet will hold togather and do what you need it to do.

One load one vel, one caliber, one weigh isn't right for all situations thats why we have many differant calibers shooting many differant bullets at many differant vel.

Everyone that knows anything about handgun hunting should be aware that the ideal velocity for a handgun bullet weighing 326.4 grs., is 1,239.5 FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Everyone that knows anything about handgun hunting should be aware that the ideal velocity for a handgun bullet weighing 326.4 grs., is 1,239.5 FPS.

.3, not .5! Get your figures straight, man!

Whitworth, I re-calc'd my numbers, and I stand corrected. .5 it is!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
A poster on another board claims that the 45 Colt doesn't kill as well as the 44 mag because it is slower. He also claims the 45-70 revolver doesn't kill well because it is too fast.

So I ask does anyone know what the magic velocity for 45 caliber is? Does one need Pixie dust to make a 45 work?

Is the 45 caliber the only caliber that needs a magic velocity to work well or is it the Pixie dust.

Bewildered

I have limited hard cast bullet preformance data: One 250 lb pig, 255 grain cast bullet at 1050 fps, two holes, one dead pig. The next animal was a mountain lion with 300 grain XTP bullets, 1100 fps at raking angle, fully expanded three foot of penetration, cat was down in between some boulders and I couldn't get the perfect shot. So, full expansion, heavy bullets, highter velocity, soon to be dead cat. Recovered bullets, two out of four, were perfectly expanded in opposite hip after shoulder shot from left front. My guide finished the lion with a .45 ACP with 230 grain JHP MegTech bullets, the first hollowpoint he could get his hands on. They still immediately killed the mostly dead cat. Fast forward to deer with .45 ACP: Remington Gold Saber bullet, +P 185 grain at 1140 fos, no visible piece remaining from broadside shot penetrating both lungs but no exit wound. Backstraps had a shrapnel cut from piece of the jacket. Speer Lawman with 200 grain Speer, old style #4477 bullet, not the new Gold Dot, factory load at 950 fps. Dime sized exit hole after broad side, double lung shot. Federal Hydra-Shok 230 grain, approximately 850 fps. Very small exit wound, possibly fragment of bullet. Double lung shot, dead deer. I've also shot a water buffalo with 240 grain cast SWC .44 Special and deer with .41 Magnum and .44 Magnum with Winchester Silvertips, 175 grain and 210 grain, at about 1250 fps. Forgive me for mentioning these as they aren't .45 caliber so technically don't fall in the magic velocity .45 caliber discussion. My general observations are these. Cast bullets penetrate shoulders well, still killing but sometimes not with startling quickness. Hollowpoints at higher velocity, if they stay together, make great high lung shot bullets. Heart shots tend to not kill so quickly but still adequately. Foot pounds of energy make great reading and calculating but mean little. Velocity adequate to ensure expansion of a given design of bullet but not cause it to self distruct seems best. Solid cast bullets with flat noses (meplate?) work well and penetrate well. If you frequently find yourself shooting from the south end of a north bound animal, cast bullets work as well as could be expected. I have a prejudice for holes through both lungs, a full caliber or better exit hole, not too much muzzle blast and revolvers or semiautomatics that weigh 3 pounds or less. My biggest cast bullets come from 500 Linebaugh and 480 Ruger revolvers but they haven't a place in this topic. The .45 Colt starts bigger as a cast bullet. Is this critical? Not really but I'm staying with .40 caliber or above cast bullets. None go over 1250 fps but weights do go up to around 450 grains, to keep recoil within my manageable range. A .45 caliber bullet of 200 grains has a sectional density of .14, as low as I'd be comfortable with. I know the 185 grain .45 ACP is lower, .130, but I wasn't satisfied with the results, despite one dead deer. Bullet construction can still affect the results. The 230 grain Federal Hydra-Shok performed just like the 185 grain Gold Saber so velocity and weight weren't as much of an issue as construction of the bullets. My final point: The magic velocity is fast enough to get proper bullet expansion with adequate penetration, for a given design of hollow point. If shooter comfort and confidence suffer, affecting accuracy, so does performance. Self-defense type bullets work on deer, but tend to fragment without a clear wound path. The two magnum Silvertips didn't fragment, yet they are advertised as self=defense loads. The old 200 grain "flying ashtray" Speer JHP didn't fragment at 950 fps, within its designed range if results mean anything. I want to try the 200 grain Speer Gold Dots at 1000 fps and 240 grain Sierra JHPs at 900 fps in .45 Auto Rim or .45 Colt. I'm not looking for a faster bullet than those mentioned, unless it's a single shot chambered in a rifle cartridge.

376, you see the difference but we are talking cast and the variety of alloys.
It is the same but we have more control of alloys.
To claim one alloy will work for all is a failure totally.

As this post by Cottonstalk clearly shows a HARD CAST bullet from a 45 Colt at 1150 FPS muzzle Velocity does alot more than just poke a caliber size hole through the animal

And while the velocity is well below the "Magic Velocity" aof the mighty and magical 44 mag the damage is great and rapid incapacitation followed


[QUOTE]Originally posted by cottonstalk:
I am going to show you...the entrance and now the exit This is a .453 projectile damage,at mild velocity.It doesn't just poke caliber holes.[/QUOTE]

jwp, stop presenting the facts!

Knew an old fella once, that swore there were different degrees of dead. Kind of like light black and dark black.

This is the first time I've ever seen anybody actually argue about them.

DEAD....KINDA DEAD....REAL DEAD...WAY DEAD....I guess that there are varying degrees of dead...never thought of that before, but, I can understand...

Huh?

quote:

Posted 21 December 2010 18:32 Hide Post
DEAD....KINDA DEAD....REAL DEAD...WAY DEAD....I guess that there are varying degrees of dead...never thought of that before, but, I can understand...

You lost me!
Dead right now, dead in 20 yards, dead in 30 yards or dead in a mile? All are dead for sure but many are not worth dying because you will not eat them.
Throw a pointed stick through a deer and it will die but you will go hungry unless you can run as fast as the deer. If you can run that fast, a sharp stone is good enough.
Shoot an animal in the wide open plains with the wrong boolit and you just need wait. Shoot one where the animal is out of sight in 20 yards and you are a fool.

bfr; Sorry I lost you...but, I have never lost a deer. One of the places that I hunt, a 20 yard shot is a long shot...most kills are measured in feet. This spot has produced some very nice deer for me over the years, but it is very tight hunting. It is also very wet...the ground...the water table is always high...we call them sloughs here...I dont know what you call them in Bakerton....maybe swamps?, but they are the absolute worst environment to hunt deer in....boats and chest waders are mandatory...the going is rough...but, when a deer is shot in there, it could be dead, kinda dead, real dead, or way dead. The closer the deer falls to the shot depends on how dead it is. If it falls at my feet, its way dead...if it falls at 20 yards or so, its real dead. If it runs at the shot but you can see it fall into the slough its kinda dead, and if it runs off at the the shot and you have to track it, its just dead (you know that because you shot the damn thing at near point blank range)...but, you have to find it to verify. Now, if you find that deer "dead", then he becomes way dead. Thats the way we do things here, and some folks think we are kinda backward, but this system has worked for a long, long time, so there is no sense in changing it now...........well, I have nice dinner of possum and greens awaiting me, so I am going to sign off.

No one is going hungry as long as we have super markets......

..........no one is going to go hungry as long as we have possum and greens!!!! Mighty tasty!!!

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
..........no one is going to go hungry as long as we have possum and greens!!!! Mighty tasty!!!

Amen, brother!

Whit; you are not only a great shooter, but, you are a cullinary gourmet as well!!!

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
Whit; you are not only a great shooter, but, you are a cullinary gourmet as well!!!

Hey, I've been called a lot worse!