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Originally posted by Whitworth:

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Originally posted by Redhawk1:
MS Hitman, post your post on other Forums and see how many other people out there would think you are wrong. It is not just me, but I know a lot of people that would disagree with you.

You just have the same guys that agree with you on everything else backing you on this ludicrous notion you have of the 38 being a viable hunting round for big game. Better yet I will post it on other sites, and see what the consensus of other handgun hunters are.

Who cares what the other forums think? I don't see how this is relevant. I am not agreeing with Hitman to "back him up" as you suggest, rather he is more open minded and he is presenting a viable argument for the .38 special. I think you are repeatedly missing the point of the feasibilty of this round, or you are simply a contrarian. Go back and read what is being said. NO ONE, and I repeat NO ONE is suggesting that the .38 special should replace the big-bores in your arsenal -- only that loaded right it can be a reliable game getter.

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Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Alex,

Post what you like where you like. Disagreeing is fine, no one is asking you to buy in on this. You've made up your mind, that's dandy; no need to continue to defend your position. Just don't think I'm going to change my mind merely because you threaten to "expose" the fact a 36 caliber bullet will completely penetrate a deer on a broadside shot. Kinda like exposing the fact the sun rises in the east.

Remember, this all started because of a tongue in cheek remark about using a J frame for my next deer kill. That's fancy talk to say I was joking. Get it?

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Originally posted by Redhawk1:.

And having an open mind has nothing to do with this. If anyone disagrees with you or your buddy's here, we are closed minded. But if you agree with you we are open minded, how stupid does that sound.

What the hell is a 38 special have to do with being a reliable game getter, it is not, unless you are talking small game.

So Lighten up Francis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by Redhawk1:
MS Hitman it has nothing to do with being worked up, it has more to do with, you all suggesting and promoting a cartridge for deer hunting that is not one that should be considered as a hunting round for deer. In my opinion is it irresponsible and wrong to suggest it is.

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Originally posted by Redhawk1:
MS Hitman it has nothing to do with being worked up, it has more to do with, you all suggesting and promoting a cartridge for deer hunting that is not one that should be considered as a hunting round for deer. In my opinion is it irresponsible and wrong to suggest it is.

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Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Anyone anxious to try busting through the thick hide, cartilage and fat with a .38 Spl. to get to the vitals of one of these guys? (No big bore backup allowed... )

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Originally posted by Whitworth:

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Originally posted by Redhawk1:
MS Hitman it has nothing to do with being worked up, it has more to do with, you all suggesting and promoting a cartridge for deer hunting that is not one that should be considered as a hunting round for deer. In my opinion is it irresponsible and wrong to suggest it is.

You're just wrong, Alex. This is just a discussion that wasn't an arguement until you deftly turned it into one.

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Go back and look at every thread that went to pot, and see all the players in it. You may be surprised what you see, or not.

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Originally posted by Whitworth:
Wow, the pot calling the kettle black. I won't let you drag me down into the mud, Alex, I just won't.

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Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I never said the .38 or .357 would not kill a deer or maybe even a larger animal. Of course they will but we all know how hard it is to have the perfect shot on any animal. And what happens when a big bone is hit?
My gripe is the choice of bullets that will be effective, the many variables just to hit a deer perfectly, the actual angle of the deer compared to our perception of the angle (Marko, you had that happen with your buck when you thought the exit hole was in the opposite shoulder when it was in the center of the neck.)
The reason I put the 45-70 in was to show even though I used WFN and had a big hole all the way through, the boolit was the wrong choice and did no work inside the deer. This should be the easiest gun to get to work but I was wrong and admit it. This was the fourth time I have had trouble with hard cast in it. Remember I used a Hornady bullet last season because I did not trust the WLN. I figured the WFN would correct it this time around---WRONG!
For me to look at .38 caliber boolits and tell everyone that such and such boolit will kill fast, then to have it fail over and over is something I am not going to do.
There is a point where a gun is in limbo. My 45-70 is there. If I shoot that same boolit at 2000 fps, it might be super and if I shoot it at 1100 to 1300 fps it will also be super. The thing is that my accuracy is at a little over 1600 fps and that is the limbo point for hard cast in my gun. It is now my job to find the perfect alloy or cast soft nose boolits. Lacking that it needs a jacketed hollow point.
Dropping to the .38 or .357 expands the limbo point and the only way to work around it is to shoot a lot of animals to find what works. You can't pull a boolit out of a hat and claim it will work.
Shooting an elk with the .357 does not prove that every elk shot with it will be found. Out in the more open land, it is easier to watch an animal for a long distance but hunt here in the thick and a deer is GONE in 2 seconds. If there is no blood trail, it is lost.
Ethics tells me to stay away from small guns.It also tells me to find a better boolit for the 45-70.
Marko, we are not talking rifles, but you have first hand experience when the young lady shot that nice doe with a .223 last season. A gun that CAN and DOES kill but is in limbo for deer recovery. It took me 4 years to talk them into a 30-30 because she had killed a deer with the toy once.
If you kill a deer with a .38 and then lose the next 2 or 4 or whatever, how long would it take me to talk you into a better gun?
Isn't there a point where you are just fooling around at the animal's expense?

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What the hell is a 38 special have to do with being a reliable game getter, it is not, unless you are talking small game.

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Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Scott found an 8 point dead, shot behind the shoulder with a rifle. He also found a dead doe. I talked to a neighbor today and he found a gut shot 8 point.
Some guys sit on stand and shoot at a deer that runs off. They MUST have missed! They stay put and shoot at another and another until one falls. They expect instant results because they have a big rifle with a scope.
I have read stories of this happening out west with long range shots on mule deer. It runs off so the jerk never checks and keeps hunting.
My question is, what side of the ethics fence are all of you standing on?

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Bobby,

I see at least you have those Encores strung properly

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Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Whitworth wrote: " We're talking deer, Bobby."

Sorry, buddy, but you stand to be corrected.

The person who originated the thread -- jwp475 -- wrote about hogs in at least 3 of his replies. Therefore, we are not just talking about deer here.

Here is a refresher of what he wrote: "Now I have taken Deer with a 45 ACP and a lot of hogs with a 4 5/8" barreled 357 mag and never had a single problem...Years ago brfore that I found out that the 357 was ineffective on game I killed a lot of hogs up to about 200 to 225 pounds with the 357 and the ols Speer 160 Semi Wadcutter 1/2 jacket wiith a health dose of 2400. I never lost one nor did I have a problem put them down. The 357 mag work very well for me. Now the 9mm was another story, the hogs went 60 to 80 yards and were pretty much done but I put a finnisher in them any way...I have killed 1 hog with the 38 Specail."
------

Anyway, the reply with the hog photos was intended to inject a bit of humor into a thread which has grown rather stale.

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Used at bow range, or less, it does fine. Been there, done that. And yes, it is very legal. One with a 158gr LRN and the other 110gr SJHP. Both ran 40 or so yards and were very good eating. Just make sure deer is broadside to collapse both lungs and you're fine. Many, upon, many disagree but I don't have a problem with it if the hunter knows it's range and physiological limitations. Most "gunwriters" will disagree, but that is just marketing. How can the new .300 Express Super Duper Ballistic King Magnum sell guns, through gunwriters articles (advertisement) if old school rules. It's amazing what calibers some folks think it takes to put a whitetail down. The .32-20 was a deer killer in a rifle before gunwriters said it shouldn't be used, etc. Same goes for the .44-40. Each of us has our opinions of what we believe is "ethical" when it comes to harvesting game. Personally, I feel the .38 Special is fine, with the aboved mentioned considerations

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Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Redhawk, that is the right thing to do. Check and check over and over to make sure you hit.
Now the funny thing is that the button buck I just shot with the .475 showed no reaction to the hit, it just ran. He did not jump or flinch at all. Just took off and ran into the ground.
Now there are hunters??? around here that would have thought it was a miss if the deer would have gone into thick cover, out of sight.
The best thing is to never base your actions on the deer's reaction or lack of it.
I hate the hunting shows where animals drop dead at the shot because a new beginning hunter will watch them and think that is what happens when the trigger is pulled.
They should explain with every shot like that, that it is not the real world, no animal always drops dead. They foster the misconception.

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My saying is, always use enough gun.

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Redhawk1

If I only had a 38 special and I needed meat, I would use it on a deer. Yes proper shot placement and range, it will kill a deer.

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They are also carbines,

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Graybeard, I won't say it cannot kill a deer, I am just saying it is not a viable cartridge for deer size game.
We all know a 22 L/R place in the right spot, it will kill a deer, but that does not make the 22 L/R the next deer round.

If I only had a 38 special and I needed meat, I would use it on a deer. Yes proper shot placement and range, it will kill a deer.
Is it a good choice for deer hunting..... I say no. JMHO.

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No where in this whole thread did I say the 38 wound not kill a deer.
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