quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
All this shows is that the bullet penetrated farther but I see zero for a wound channel. I think you will lose 3/4 of the deer shot with it, maybe more.
The hollow point showed more damage but lacks penetration so you can still lose a lot of deer because the little entry hole will not give enough tracking blood.
It seems to me that the .38 HP is famous for stopping on bone and can't even penetrate a skull on an animal. That leaves the FMJ for brain and spine shots. With the small amount of wound channel in flesh, you had better hit the spine or brain with the thing.
Using a .38 Special on deer turns hunting into a stunt. Too many police and soldiers have died by shooting BG's with the .38. It is marginal on humans.
I don't even like the .357 because of the problem of picking the perfect bullet. No way on earth I would use a FMJ. You need a heavy bullet with very controlled expansion.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
So is your J frame one of the newer ones that handles 357 mag??????Or Just the 38 Special?????

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Oops, my mistake! I assumed that the comment about deer was tongue in cheek! Who would use a 38 special on deer, especially from a J frame? I was commenting on the penetration being greater than a lead 158 grain SWC, which, generally people expect to penetrate more.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Not so. I shot at least 6 deer in PA with my bow that had healed in .22 bullets on the inside of the chest cavities. Kind of scares you when you find a lump until you cut it open and a bullet comes out.

quote:

All this shows is that the bullet penetrated farther but I see zero for a wound channel. I think you will lose 3/4 of the deer shot with it, maybe more...Using a .38 Special on deer turns hunting into a stunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
I am NOT trying to stir things, and this is an honest question: Where would you shoot a deer if you had a 38 Special? A assume that with a 22LR you would try a brain shot (head on). Is this where you would aim with a 38? I would not try the typical heart/lung shot with a 38 due to the lack of a wound channel and a potentially lengthy tracking job. Am I wrong? I have no experience shooting deer with a handgun but if I had the opportunity I would use my 44 mag. or 45 Colt (rather than my 357 mag) and try for the heart/lung area.
Peter.

quote:

OF COURSE you have a wound channel and the smallest that the wound channel could possiable be is .358" in diameter.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
jwp475 wrote:

quote:

OF COURSE you have a wound channel and the smallest that the wound channel could possiable be is .358" in diameter.

That's absolutely incorrect. The apparent wound channel can be much narrower depending on the bullet used. A 158 grain RN at low velocity will push its way through tissue and will leave a rather small wound channel in its wake. That's partly because flesh has elastic properties and the fact that the low-velocity RN does not impart ample hydrostatic shot to violently displace tissue as a high-velocity, expanding round can do.

And, a round nose bullet will not cut cleanly through a medium as will a projectile with a wide, flat meplat. My .44 Mags, using Cast Performance's 320 grainers launched at 1400 fps from a 9.5" barrel and 1350 from a 7.5" gun, generally leave wound channels of 1.25-1.5 inch in diameter all the way through hogs and deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
I've never shot a deer with a .38 Special either and have no plans to ever try it.

I did shoot 2 feral dogs with a 4" .38 Spl about 20-25 years ago using a 125 grain JHP. They had maimed a calf, were reluctant to leave the area -- and that was the only firearm I had in the truck at the moment.

I shot the first broadside from about 10 yards, and he took off like his tail was on fire. The 2nd dog stopped at about 25 yards and looked back at me, and I popped him near the last rib angling towards the opposite shoulder. I fired 3 more shots into him as he ran away.

The first dog made more than a half-mile and wound up on the edge of a farm-to-market road -- and still needed a finisher. The first shot had indeed hit him tightly behind the shoulder.

The 2nd dog was found about 500 yards away. He was expired. Two of the follow-ups both seemed to impact the liver (I guess the third was a miss), and I guess that's what eventually did him in.

None of the bullets exited on these 60-70 pound dogs.

After that, I have no inclination to use the 38 Spl on anything other than paper, no matter what bullet it is loaded with. I have other guns better suited to the task.

quote:

I've even seen Deer with Broadheads that have been grown over whith grissel, as well as lots of old buckshot wounds, but who would say that in the vitails they aren't lethal? Not saying that a 22 LR is the perfect Deer round, but put in the correct location it is indeed lethal. A lot of Deer have been taken with the 22 LR in the"OLD Days"

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

I've even seen Deer with Broadheads that have been grown over whith grissel, as well as lots of old buckshot wounds, but who would say that in the vitails they aren't lethal? Not saying that a 22 LR is the perfect Deer round, but put in the correct location it is indeed lethal. A lot of Deer have been taken with the 22 LR in the"OLD Days"

Still done today but they are usually shot between the eyes. Mostly with a spotlight!

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
I've never shot a deer with a .38 Special either and have no plans to ever try it.

I did shoot 2 feral dogs with a 4" .38 Spl about 20-25 years ago using a 125 grain JHP. They had maimed a calf, were reluctant to leave the area -- and that was the only firearm I had in the truck at the moment.

I shot the first broadside from about 10 yards, and he took off like his tail was on fire. The 2nd dog stopped at about 25 yards and looked back at me, and I popped him near the last rib angling towards the opposite shoulder. I fired 3 more shots into him as he ran away.

The first dog made more than a half-mile and wound up on the edge of a farm-to-market road -- and still needed a finisher. The first shot had indeed hit him tightly behind the shoulder.

The 2nd dog was found about 500 yards away. He was expired. Two of the follow-ups both seemed to impact the liver (I guess the third was a miss), and I guess that's what eventually did him in.

None of the bullets exited on these 60-70 pound dogs.

After that, I have no inclination to use the 38 Spl on anything other than paper, no matter what bullet it is loaded with. I have other guns better suited to the task.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
How many more times will you quote my reply??? And if you are going to paraphrase, at least have the courtesy to get it right.

You stated: "...you said the 38 special was no good for such use"

That is FALSE. I never used those words.

What I actually said was this: "I have other guns better suited to the task."

You also wrote: "Perhaps these Buffalo Bore loads would have given better results"

Yep, those are just the ticket for the many older .38 Spls floating around out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Why don't you try and learn a little about forensics and internal ballistics before spouting off?

Try this: buy yourself a 15 pound boneless ham. Take a .38 Spl with lead RN at standard factory velocity.

Place it at 10 yards (maybe 5 for you) and shoot it.

I can assure you the wound channel will be sub-bullet diameter the majority of the way beause of the elasticity of the meat. The temporary cavity may be bullet diameter or larger, but the entire length of the permanent cavity WILL NOT.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Why don't you try and learn a little about forensics and internal ballistics before spouting off?

Try this: buy yourself a 15 pound boneless ham. Take a .38 Spl with lead RN at standard factory velocity.

Place it at 10 yards (maybe 5 for you) and shoot it.

I can assure you the wound channel will be sub-bullet diameter the majority of the way beause of the elasticity of the meat. The temporary cavity may be bullet diameter or larger, but the entire length of the permanent cavity WILL NOT.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Well, seeing that jwp shoots animals with guns he has yet to practice with, I didn't want to suggest trying it on any live creatures...

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Why don't you try and learn a little about forensics and internal ballistics before spouting off?

Try this: buy yourself a 15 pound boneless ham. Take a .38 Spl with lead RN at standard factory velocity.

Place it at 10 yards (maybe 5 for you) and shoot it.

I can assure you the wound channel will be sub-bullet diameter the majority of the way beause of the elasticity of the meat. The temporary cavity may be bullet diameter or larger, but the entire length of the permanent cavity WILL NOT.