hi guy's

i have desided to get another wheel gun, and since i am very much into fit and finish, i want a freedom arms, what i am not so sure of is what caliber to get.

so far my expirence have been with my ruger bisley 357 mag which i shoot reasonly well out to 110yards or so with 180 grains bullets.

the gun will be with me in europe and africa where it is allowed, but what caliber would you reccomend 454 or the 475 or what.

i am not recoil shy and can and do reload my own ammo.

what would you reccomend ?

best

peter

Personally, if you are going to step up, you might as well really step up. I would go with the .475 -- it is simply more than a .454. They both recoil considerably loaded to their maximums. Really can't go wrong with either caliber, but the .475 is the cat's meow.

Another vote for the .475.

I have an 83 454 Casull and my next Freedom will definately be a 475.

peterdk I would recommend that you take a good hard look at a BFR, and then get a Freedom Arms ( in 475 Linebaugh of course)!!!!
(Fooled you!)
Peter.

peterdk

I would recommend the 475. I have one and I like it a lot.

I have shot it side by side with other FA's in 454 and cannot tell any difference in recoil.

Lighter bullets in the 454 kick about like the light bullets in the 475.

Like wise heavy bullets in each seem to kick the same.

I like the fact the the 475 shots a bigger, heavier bullet. Since I already had a 44 Mag, I went to the 475.

Either calibre would be a good choice.

If I was hunting deer sized game with a scope I would however go with the 454.

But for bigger stuff I liked the 475 better.

.475 to be sure. A friends Freedom does 5/8" at 50 for me in the .475 with 350 to 400 gr boolits. 400 is iffy!
If you want to shoot 400 to 460 gr boolits into 5/8", buy a BFR. Longer cylinder, better twist rate!
Sorry Peter! Those two important dimensions can't be disputed. I can only agree that the .475 is top dog.

thank you all for the advice.

it seems like a FA 475 will be in my near future then, i have desided that i want a 4 3/4" field grade, and i will make a pair of express sights for it for the fun of it.

Brfshooter, i agree that they are importent dimensions, but if i want something like that i will turn to my double rifles instead. 750 grains at 2100 fps takes all and then some.
I did look at the BRF but neither the looks or the build quality were for my tastes, i simply can not get used to that long frame and cylinder in something i want to carry at my belt.

thanks again for the advice one and all

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
thank you all for the advice.

it seems like a FA 475 will be in my near future then, i have desided that i want a 4 3/4" field grade, and i will make a pair of express sights for it for the fun of it.

Brfshooter, i agree that they are importent dimensions, but if i want something like that i will turn to my double rifles instead. 750 grains at 2100 fps takes all and then some.
I did look at the BRF but neither the looks or the build quality were for my tastes, i simply can not get used to that long frame and cylinder in something i want to carry at my belt.

thanks again for the advice one and all

peter

Peter, you must be thinking of the long framed BFRs in .45/70, .450 Marlin, .500 S&W, etc. The .475, .454, .500 JRH, etc. are a "normal" sized revolver.

quote:

Posted 08 August 2010 00:16 Hide Post
thank you all for the advice.

it seems like a FA 475 will be in my near future then, i have desided that i want a 4 3/4" field grade, and i will make a pair of express sights for it for the fun of it.

Brfshooter, i agree that they are importent dimensions, but if i want something like that i will turn to my double rifles instead. 750 grains at 2100 fps takes all and then some.
I did look at the BRF but neither the looks or the build quality were for my tastes, i simply can not get used to that long frame and cylinder in something i want to carry at my belt.

thanks again for the advice one and all

Here is the .475 BFR, it is not the long cylinder.

thanks guy's

you are right i were thinking of the long cylinder model, that said the BFR still dont have the fit and finish that i am after, i like tight and well fitted.

best

peter

Peter, does there really seem to be anything lacking with this revolver??

peterdk get you a 475 of your choice and go to work.Buy what you like you'll use it more.And with you already shooting a 357 well with a 475 you'll cover the other end of the spectrum.You'll have one for light to medium game and one for medium and beyond.Good luck and good shootin'.

Here is a picture of a Freedom and a BFR. Tick off the differences but do you want me to spend a week with what is really important?

Let us compare the two guns. Here is a target shot at 50 yards with the Freedom with different factory loads shot with ONE chamber only because of boolit pull. NO, the upper right group is not the same load.

And then the lowly BFR at 50, 100 and 200 yards with all kinds of loads.

Never complain to me about a bad choice of a gun.

They both have ugly grips??

I am really sorry because I was taken aback with force when the Freedom really went to pot. I expected much better. I shot as best I could but no amount of ability will improve it.
I do NOT do this on purpose, I work hard with every shot. I do really want the gun to shoot but there is nothing but disappointment.
Just think how bad I would feel if I had spent all the money for this gun???? I thank the Lord it is not mine!

It's not money you spent, so why worry about it??

Because he is my friend and I can't let him down. Believe me, I have tried. The more I shoot this gun the worse I feel. How do I tell a friend that he wasted money?
I have no agenda, I have feelings for friends that i don't want cheated or disappointed. Just because a revolver is super expensive does not mean it will shoot.
You know darn well I will go FAR out of my way for a friend, it is not a joke to me.
I might laugh with how bad a gun shoots but I still do not feel right about a friend. Just what do I say to him? Should I lie?

Where are you shopping for BFRs for $1K when you can buy them new for around $800.00??

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Where are you shopping for BFRs for $1K when you can buy them new for around $800.00??

In the vast Kleon Galaxie

quote:

My local guys will sell me FA's for 1k. Which would you pick?

Depends on what I am wanting to do with the revovler. The 2 have some differences in them that would be the deciding factr.

I have purdhased several items off of Gunbroker and have been very pleased with the smooth transactions

like was said recoil is about the same and the 475 gives the advantage of larger bullets that work a bit better on game at lower velocitys and give better penetration on really big game. No brainer for me id take the 475 hands down and i have FAs in both calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Peter, does there really seem to be anything lacking with this revolver??

withworth

no it is a really nice wheel gun, there are just a few small differences between that and a FA. i work as a gunmaker building double rifles and in my line of the trade, it is the small differences, that makes the huge differences in price and handling, that and i just like FA's a lot, either which way if anything goes haywire i will have to fix it myself as export permits etc for a job i should be abel to do is a no-go.

Who knows i might even give it a bit of a london feel while im at it

now i will start the hunt for a decent one.


best

peter

You have to consider that since I have worked with friends guns in the .454 that the CALIBER has more issues and problems then any other caliber and it might not be the gun.
I have never had so many problems with any other caliber.
I would not even buy a BFR in .454 because of all the things we have learned.
A .44, .45 and then just go to a .475 and forget the in between stuff.
There is just something not right with the .454. There are boolit pull issues, ignition issues, SD issues and accuracy issues.
You need to hand load for it and you better understand every issue.
I have had some success with cut down .460 brass but I will never expect .454 brass to give you a tack driver. You can not trust any factory load unless you test them.

quote:

HMMM. First thing I would do is call FA and see if they will sell you parts. BFR's use standard Ruger parts? Right?
Course if you can build a double, you can probably build revolver parts,yes?

There will never, ever be a need to buy BFR parts. The gun will keep shooting long after you die of old age. I might change the mainsprings but nothing else will ever fail and even a decent Ruger will out last you.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Peter, does there really seem to be anything lacking with this revolver??

The only thing I see lacking is a 6" octagon barrel. One of these days I'll get an FA 83 6" octagon with 475 and 480 cylinders.

It's a BFR, Paul, and it is so accurate as it sits, I am afraid to mess with it!

And about that accuracy, I shot this on Sunday with handloads (bfrshooter and I are working up loads for it) at 50-yards. This revolver is making me very happy!

i've never had the accuracy issues here with any of my FA 454's. 3 from 6" to 10". my son's bfr 454 is very very accurate as well. i haven't had one FA 454 that wouldn't shoot 1" at 100 with several loads when scoped and off a rest if i did my part. i don't have many issues at all infact. the main issues i've had is some factory dies don't size the cases to grip the bullet well enough and they hold via just the crimp but that's not a caliber issue, it's a die issue.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
.475 to be sure. A friends Freedom does 5/8" at 50 for me in the .475 with 350 to 400 gr boolits. 400 is iffy!
If you want to shoot 400 to 460 gr boolits into 5/8", buy a BFR. Longer cylinder, better twist rate!
Sorry Peter! Those two important dimensions can't be disputed. I can only agree that the .475 is top dog.

1 in 18 is the twist used by every maker except BFR and the only reason that BFR uses a 1 in 15 twist is because Badger only makes a 15 twist, no other reason.

You are always claiming that FA's are not accurate, well I guess that is the reason that they hold more IHMSA records and match wins than any other make of revolver.

quote:

the main issues i've had is some factory dies don't size the cases to grip the bullet well enough and they hold via just the crimp but that's not a caliber issue, it's a die issue.

Tradmark, you are obviously a very inexperienced shooter. I have it on good authority right here on this forum, that the issue you describe is the fault of the GUN.
Peter.

What, is everyone smoking crack tonight??

quote:

Tradmark, you are obviously a very inexperienced shooter. I have it on good authority right here on this forum, that the issue you describe is the fault of the GUN.
Peter.

It is more true then you think. I have seen many Freedoms shoot like crazy when I shot IHMSA but have seen many bad ones too. I have seen the highly touted Dan Wesson's shoot like junk with crooked mounted barrels when they were winning every shoot at the time.
Where you make your mistake is that you expect every Freedom to be perfect and it is not so just like any other gun.
I prefer to take a new gun out of the box and work a load very quickly, then hunt. Most times a BFR takes 20 shots with each boolit to find the load and most have done an inch at 100 with many different boolits. So far I have slugged many BFR's and have yet to find one out of specs.
If you think twist rates are used by Magnum Research because of Badger, think again. Rates have been CHOSEN for the best. Badger will make any twist you ask for.
EVERY .475 BFR has a .475" groove and EVERY 45-70 has a .458" groove, ditto for every other caliber and throats are correct for each bore.
What do you do with a Freedom .454 with a .4531" groove and throats that a .452" boolit will not go through? I removed a LOT of steel to get the throats to .453". The bore should have been .452" and the throats .4525" to .453".
Don't talk about revolvers unless you work on them.
I can also tell you Whitworth's BFR,.500 JRH has perfect dimensions.
I probably have been doing gunsmith work from way before you were born.
It is true that a Freedom can be great but maybe you should show that ALL of them are that way.
I like Ruger's too but if you think I will claim they are all perfect you are blowing smoke. But it is sure funny a SBH with over 60,000 rounds shows no wear and shoots the same as the day I bought it must mean it is junk while a Freedom is worn off center with around 300 rounds.
Look at the Freedom forcing cone. Do you see a rifling start? Do you see the ripples.

Now look at a Ruger after 60,000 rounds. Ignore the sandblasting on the edge.

The Freedom needs a new barrel.
When will you people get real?

How about a BFR forcing cone after thousands of rounds.

Can't we put this to bed??

Pretty hard when some are so hard headed.
When I have a problem with any gun and report it no on will say a word until I say FREEDOM! Now ask why that is?
When I talk about problems with the .454 someone always says they get 1" at 100 all the time but won't show proof. When I say a .38 wad cutter needs to be hard, someone will say the gun shot bulls eyes for years with soft lead.
Well I shot pigeons with a slingshot at 100 yards when I was young too. I hunted rabbits with a slingshot and bow for years and never came out with less then 16 rabbits a day. I also killed many with a blowgun. I shot pheasants out of the air with a bow. I even killed several pheasants with a golf club thrown at them. I never found a better use for a golf club! I can't prove a word of it unless you ask friends.
But today, with the internet and a camera, proof can be shown yet everyone hides.
I show everything and if anyone wants to dispute my findings, don't sit behind the keyboard. I am sure everyone has a camera.
Don't worry, Obamacare will not cost you a dime!
How about everyone take a very close look at my pictures and then say sunspots were the problem!
Here is a statement from a good IHMSA shooter. He has a good gun because I have done this with others with zero results. Just how many of you follow a good loading practice? I need none of this with a Ruger or BFR.
Larry Harris of West Liberty, OH won the revolver category. He comments that the load process for his FA353 is the most complicated of any silhouette gun he owns. He describes his loading process: “I neck size 357 Rem. Brass to just above the level where the bullet base will be when it’s seated using a very long decapping rod from a .308 Win. die in my Redding sizer die. Case mouth flaring is normally done after brushing out powder residue buildup in the bullet seating area. I use CCI400 primers followed by 12.5 gr. of VihtaVouri N-110. Speer 200 gr TMJ silhouette bullets are seated to the middle of the cannelure in one step and then crimped with a Profile crimp die from Redding in a separate step. A medium crimp is used.”

Yet, he won.....

Where is the controversy??

well, i don't know nor care about how anything on my guns slugs or whatnot, i don't measure any of that, i know the accuracy i expect and i know what i get, beyond that is immaterial to me. that is whether you were gunsmithing since moses was born or whatever. you can show pics till you're blue in the face, i don't know what was put through that freedom what loads etc. hell, that could've been overloaded jacketed bullets or whatever, i don't know. i have had a custom shop bfr .475 and it was no more nor less accurate imho than my FA 454's. both great guns but i was the limiting factor not the gun. i don't know what the story is behind any of your pics but i do know you have an axe to grind against FA and jump at the chance to bash'em any chance you get.

He mentioned it was the most complicated gun he ever loaded for.
It just will not shoot anything. They can be very, very load specific.