What bullet type do you prefer for your big game hunting out of revolvers

Commits welcomed

Question:
Hard Cast or Jacketed expanding

Choices:
Wide meplat Hard Cast
Jackted Soft Point
Jacketed Hollow Point
Small Meplat Hard Cast

 

Wide meplat hard cast of course. Is there anything else?

Seriously, I do prefer the above mentioned bullet for several reasons that have been covered here before.

Landrum

I voted for your top selection. Like many, I started hunting with a handgun with the belief that I needed expanding bullets. I have graduated...... I feel that some of the smaller calibers can benefit from some expansion, but I rarely hunt with anything that "needs" expansion, and when you are already starting with a large diameter, you don't need expansion. That said, a wide meplat does a lot more damage than the unitiated may believe -- and you don't compromise penetration. What's not to like about a wide meplat hardcast?

We have 14 votes thus far, but not much commentary

could it be that all the commentary has filled up pages and pages under other headings

I voted for wide meplat hard cast. Admittedly, I have no experience with them on truly "big game" but the various jacketed bullets I've used have been less than impressive on anything more than hogs and deer. The 275gr. Hornady XTPs I used in my Ruger .480 on a blue wildebeest and gemsbok didn't penetrate anywhere near what I expected. Next time, I'm going big, heavy and solid.

I voted for the wide meplat hard cast..

But I feel for deer sized game in say a 44 Mag a 240 HP or SP is plenty good, and I have killed plenty of deer with same...
44 Mag Rifle and handgun...

But a hard cast bullet cannot fail. And they have given me excellent service as well, on deer and pigs.

I also voted for wide meplats and hard cast. I use a 41 or a 44 or a 480 when I use a handgun. The question for me is this, if I use heavy for caliber boolits 255gr in 41, 300gr in 44 and 400gr in 480...how fast in terms of velocity is fast enough for under 100 yard (closer to 50yard) hunting on hog/bear type game?? Is 1100fps ideal or is 1250fps ideal or is ther some other "magic velocity"?

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Pisano:
I also voted for wide meplats and hard cast. I use a 41 or a 44 or a 480 when I use a handgun. The question for me is this, if I use heavy for caliber boolits 255gr in 41, 300gr in 44 and 400gr in 480...how fast in terms of velocity is fast enough for under 100 yard (closer to 50yard) hunting on hog/bear type game?? Is 1100fps ideal or is 1250fps ideal or is ther some other "magic velocity"?

1,100 to 1,250 fps is where you want to be in my opinion.

My last effort was with a Barnes all copper [ Corbon DPX 225 gr. Worked fine on a 250 lb red deer.

Wide meplat hard cast, nothing more to add to that!!

what do you consider a wide metplat. Im not a fan of wfns but do like lfns and swcs.

I am a wide fan,just look at me,I'm plenty wide.

I can't speak for anyone else but for me "wide" starts at 72% meplat,and this is just my prefrence and opinion.

I see that there are four votes for jacketed soft-points and hollow-points but they were annonymous and without extrapolation. Would you care to come back here and tell us the"why" behind your choices?

Just curious.

I voted Jacketed Hollow Point because I use the 210 XTP most in my 41 mags. If it would let you vote for more than one, I would have voted for that and the wide meplat cast. Like my rifles, I suit my bullets to the game I hunt. Since I mainly hunt deer, there is not one alive that needs a cast bullet, IMO. I have never recovered an XTP from a deer at any angle. For hogs and such, I use the Federal Cast Core or Montana Bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
what do you consider a wide metplat. Im not a fan of wfns but do like lfns and swcs.

WFN is what I consider wide metplat, I also like the LFN as well.

An LFN and a WLN both have a large meplat.

Not knocking Hornady because I use much of their ammo and like them. That said in Argentina a few years ago I used two loads in my Ruger in 45 Colt.
Hornady 250 gr. XTPs and Leadheads 270 gr. lead.
I thought the lead performed better.

What is a large meplat? I use a meplat of .388" on a bullet that is just over one ounce and send it on it's way at a little over 1,150 feet per second. So far everything I have shot with it has hit the ground and stayed there except one boar that made it 15 yards before falling over dead.

I voted for jacketed hollow point, they have worked wonderful on the 3 deer I have taken with it, very small sample size but with 6 different firearm options for a 9 day season it gets spread around a bit.

I have learned a lot reading the threads here but haven't used up the XTP JHP's yet.

I shoot cast because they are cheap, reliable or are all that are readily offered in the some of the calibers I shoot (my 500 L for example). That said, I would have zero issues chasing elk or moose and certainly the relatively little deer and hogs with the Hornady 400 gr XTP in my 475.

quote:

what do you consider a wide metplat. Im not a fan of wfns but do like lfns and swcs.

Well, we get the WFN to shoot as good as the WLN and in some calibers you will have a hard time telling if one kills deer better then the other. I use both.
But the question for the poll is flawed because a good flat nose boolit is always best and in some calibers the difference between a WFN and WLN is moot.
No consideration was given to the velocity either boolit is shot at and what caliber they are shot from. No consideration was made for the size of the animal or the distance. No consideration was made for an alloy change. Even that can be wrong, not a total alloy change but just a difference at the nose while maintaining a hard drive area for accuracy.
Even though I will not use anything but a WFN, WLN or RNFP with a good meplat, I can't in good faith vote for just hard cast for every caliber, velocity, size of animal, distance OR WHERE THE ANIMAL IS HIT.
Face facts, we are shooting revolvers, mostly off hand. Those that shoot game from rests, sticks or bags and can hit exactly---just back off because you are too close to rifle hunting.
Shoot off hand to 100 yards or over and tell me you can hit the shoulder joint on every animal and I will tell you where to get off the train.
I am willing to bet most can't hit a gallon jug every shot at 100 with a scoped rifle, off hand.
I get so tired of those that say "you must hit here every shot", well OK, at 20 yards from a rest at a standing animal.

Yikes! He only asked what you bullet preference is. What is flawed in that?

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

what do you consider a wide metplat. Im not a fan of wfns but do like lfns and swcs.

Well, we get the WFN to shoot as good as the WLN and in some calibers you will have a hard time telling if one kills deer better then the other. I use both.
But the question for the poll is flawed because a good flat nose boolit is always best and in some calibers the difference between a WFN and WLN is moot.
No consideration was given to the velocity either boolit is shot at and what caliber they are shot from. No consideration was made for the size of the animal or the distance. No consideration was made for an alloy change. Even that can be wrong, not a total alloy change but just a difference at the nose while maintaining a hard drive area for accuracy.
Even though I will not use anything but a WFN, WLN or RNFP with a good meplat, I can't in good faith vote for just hard cast for every caliber, velocity, size of animal, distance OR WHERE THE ANIMAL IS HIT.
Face facts, we are shooting revolvers, mostly off hand. Those that shoot game from rests, sticks or bags and can hit exactly---just back off because you are too close to rifle hunting.
Shoot off hand to 100 yards or over and tell me you can hit the shoulder joint on every animal and I will tell you where to get off the train.
I am willing to bet most can't hit a gallon jug every shot at 100 with a scoped rifle, off hand.
I get so tired of those that say "you must hit here every shot", well OK, at 20 yards from a rest at a standing animal.

So tell us bfrshooter how many different alloys do you cast? How many different hardnesses do you cast?

quote:

So tell us bfrshooter how many different alloys do you cast? How many different hardnesses do you cast?

For the .44, .475 and .500 JRH, just water dropped WW metal. They need no expansion unless game is shot very long range.
The .45 works best with a softer nose and hard drive bands for accuracy.
The 45-70 works fine with 50-50 WW's and pure, oven hardened or a hard drive area and a softer nose.
I make a lot of two part boolits but need to perfect the seam.
I will never give up a good meplat and fear over expansion as much as too fast a hard boolit that pokes holes.
I just try to reach a good balance for the caliber and velocity.
I agree with you that no revolver boolit is better then the WLN, WFN or RNFP and some calibers can use hard boolits all the time.
Where we differ is when caliber size or velocity changes. Another factor is animal size. What fails on deer can be perfect on a buf. But it does not always work the other way, so a good buf boolit might be great on a deer if it is in the zone.
I consider deer the hardest test of boolits because of their size and what works best on deer might not be best for larger animals.
Hunting with cast is a strange world since we left the BP era. A hard FN boolit from a 30-30 or 30-06 is a paper punch. A .45 pure lead ball from a muzzle loader is a killer but when you increase the ball diameter it gets better and better. The trouble is that we can't shoot pure lead from modern revolvers without troubles.
Anyway, a hard boolit is always the most accurate from our revolvers so keep the drive area hard. Then adjust nose expansion for the velocity. Take one caliber like the .444. A slow boolit should have some expansion because it has less energy. Then a point is reached where no expansion is needed. Now go faster and some expansion will be needed again.
Then along comes some other huge animal and all of this changes.
I can't explain it but one hard boolit just does not work for every animal, at every velocity, distance or caliber.
My last deer last season was shot with a hard, 330 gr, .44 boolit at about 98 yards. Double lung shot because she moved. I did not find blood for about 60 yards. She went about 50 yards from first blood.
Deer shot in the same place under 50 yards will blow blood and go 30 yards tops. Would some expansion on the 98 yard deer be better? Would it harm the closer shots?
The question is; how do we make a boolit work every time under every condition for every animal at any distance and any velocity or caliber?
See how tough it is JWP? I will die of old age without all the answers.
Where we differ is that I do not have one answer and might never have it. Can you bear with me?

I prefer my WFN with carbide core but got my last deer with my RFF...........
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My Right Front Fender........damn it!!!!!!

JWP475;
John:
As to my RFF in my last post:
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Recovered EVERY one.......
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They NEVER over penetrate......
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Sometimes they can be reused....
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Above the MAGIC velocity of about 77 fps, they kill very well....
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Follow up shots above the Magic velocity are not quick, but when your blood is up, dam enjoyable.......
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Also on follow up shots......NO FRICKIN' AIRBAG!!!!!!!!!!
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Not to hijack John but had to laugh about it some way........lousey way to harvest deer........

But a success nontheless!

Elk and buf are killed with large bore air rifles at ridiculous low velocities and animals are killed with rifles at near 4000 fps.
But would any of you use the exact same bullets?
Does anyone shoot bears with a 110 gr bullet from a .300 mag or would you use a 220 gr? Do you shoot deer with a 220 gr?
How about shooting deer with a .220 Swift and a 50 gr bullet?
I don't see anyone hunting with ball ammo in the 30-06.
Why is a lead boolit so good that one hardness can do it all, in any caliber and any velocity?

Bfr. Your last 2 posts are some of the best I have read on a r. My favorite is the Belt MT. Punch bullet. But it wasn't an option so I voted for the WFN. As my primary use for a revolver is bear protection, bullet failure ie a bullet that breaks up is a bad, potentially bloddy problem for me. Having had cast lead alloy bullets blow up I don't trust them totally. But if they maintain their shape they are great

Bfr. Your last 2 posts are some of the best I have read on a r. My favorite is the Belt MT. Punch bullet. But it wasn't an option so I voted for the WFN. As my primary use for a revolver is bear protection, bullet failure ie a bullet that breaks up is a bad, potentially bloddy problem for me. Having had cast lead alloy bullets blow up I don't trust them totally. ..But if they maintain their shape they are great !!

i'd use a 110 gr bullet if it'd hold together but it's just a much more risky proposition. that said, a .30 caliber bullet hole isn't big when made by hardball ammo, very unimpressive wounds in the trauma room even on humans. that said, if i need more damage being done that the caliber sized flatpoint, imho, if the hunt costs anything ya need a copper or brass projectile, a corbon penetrator at the least.

bfr shooting, curious why hardcasts work in a 44 mag but you alter the mix for a 45, then go back to the same as the 44 for the 475 and up.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
bfr shooting, curious why hardcasts work in a 44 mag but you alter the mix for a 45, then go back to the same as the 44 for the 475 and up.

It's because of "magic velocity!" Don't you remember this discussion??

I still think it is the velocity range. Hard WLN or WFN boolits work extremely well but even they are less effective if distance increases where they slow down.
Shot slower and they are less effective at the start. But add some expansion and they work again.
Shot too fast at close range and they act like ball ammo, poking a hole but increase the distance and they work again. Shoot a very large animal at close range with this fast boolit and it again works.
I feel boolit alloy or better yet, the hardness of the nose for each application is as important as choosing the correct bullet for a rifle for each animal or range that you shoot.
Many new factory rifle bullets are designed to work for about anything today but we can't do the same with lead. We need different for each thing, yet we have control but just can't use the same for everything.
Take a .44 boolit. It works fine cast hard at the right distances. Make a hollow point and it is fine but make the boolit softer or the cavity too large and it fails to penetrate. Those quarter size recovered boolits are junk. Now make them too hard and petals break off and they fail again. But you can control the hollow point and alloy to make them work very well.
The question is always what your boolit does at every distance and velocity on what you hunt.
There is no single boolit that will do it all.

hhhmmm. i think there's times there may be an even better option, but i'm pretty confident there's a few loads for my guns that'll "do it all." just shot a beartooth 340 gr lfn load again out of my FA83. 50 cent piece group with iron sights at 40 yards off-hand. 1550 fps. easy recoiling and penetrates like gangbusters. there's times i feel my high velocity barnes loads are "better". there's times i feel a larger bullet would be "better". there's really nothing i couldn't kill with this bullet and load though, it does do it all and does it all accurately. to me that's the beauty of these hardcast loads and they're easy on the gun. not the best to me all the time, but sure will do it all. it's what i shoot out of the 7.5" casull exclusively.

i kinda feel this all took a turn and became waaaaay to complicated. and yes i did forget the magic velocity. my bad

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter: Hard WLN or WFN boolits work extremely well but even they are less effective if distance increases where they slow down.

There is no single boolit that will do it all.

I think you are incorrect on this point. As distances increase and bullets consequently slow down, expansion will inhibit penetration. That is precisely why you don't want expansion, and will benefit from the hardcast's ability to punch through despite somewhat low velocities.

Sure there is a bullet that will do it all. In the larger calibers like the .475 and up, there is no need for expansion and a good wide meplat bullet will take anything and everything.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
i'd use a 110 gr bullet if it'd hold together but it's just a much more risky proposition. that said, a .30 caliber bullet hole isn't big when made by hardball ammo, very unimpressive wounds in the trauma room even on humans. that said, if i need more damage being done that the caliber sized flatpoint, imho, if the hunt costs anything ya need a copper or brass projectile, a corbon penetrator at the least.

bfr shooting, curious why hardcasts work in a 44 mag but you alter the mix for a 45, then go back to the same as the 44 for the 475 and up.

I would not be afraid to use an all copper 110 because I know that it would hold together and that is the key, +1....

quote:

I think you are incorrect on this point. As distances increase and bullets consequently slow down, expansion will inhibit penetration. That is precisely why you don't want expansion, and will benefit from the hardcast's ability to punch through despite somewhat low velocities.

No, with the weight boolits we shoot, I do not fear loss of penetration from a tiny nose upset. I am not talking about a flat boolit, just a little disruption at the nose.
One deer I shot with the .475 at a little over 100 yards just ran up the hill and stood behind fallen trees so I could not get another shot. I watched her for several minutes. Then she jumped the trees and ran towards me but started to stumble bad, crashing into other fallen trees. She got right under my stand and laid down. It took a little time before she died.
There is a huge difference between one shot close and one shot far. Sure, a shoulder shot would dump her but I shot off hand at over 100 yards. I got her behind the shoulder, double lung.
What would your answer be?
Then I shot a large doe with the 45-70 BFR and she just jumped and stood there. I seen the hit behind the shoulder. It was thick and she walked until in the clear again so I shot her again. She took off up the hill, crossed the first property and was way up on top when I heard a shot. Then I heard my name called, it was a neighbor, he shot the deer with his rifle. I tried to make him take the deer but he did not want it.
I had a good blood trail and would have found her but he saved me some tracking.
The boolit was a WLN, cast hard but too fast.
What would you do to improve the results?
Then you were with me when I used a different alloy and also when I used the Hornady bullet. Both worked to perfection, yet you argue that hard cast will do it all.
Just too many deer and too many different results for any argument. You have been here and seen it for yourself.
No, one boolit and hardness can't do it all.
Even the all copper bullets shot at long range might not expand and poke a small hole. We are not shooting rifles.

Sounds like you advocate different bullets according to the distance of the shot.

It's a good thing that the Carribou that I killed at about 150 yards with a 310 grain LBT HARD CAST at 1240 FPS didn't know that I needed to soften the bullet to make it work.

I 've shot a lot of deer thru the ribs with a lot of rifles. Almost No bang flops. The only one that comes t mind was a forked horn I shot with a 308 with. 155gr hollow point bt match bullet. It made a fair size mess tho. I like the exit hole to be 1"or smaller. The only deer I've shot with the my 480 was a quartering toward me shot @ about 30/ 40 yrds. 410 great Buffalo Bore WFN bullet. It put a thumb size hole thru the heart and broken the off side shoulder. Deer ran down hill 30yds or so and piled up. No blood shock. Good load for my purposes.