Let's start a logical discussion here.I have a 44 & 45 colt and I am trying to justify,for reasons other than wants,a larger caliber.A 350 @ 1200 out of the colt I feel will handle everything up to and including the big stuff NA offers.Is there a logical solution?

Thanks for the new thread!!!!!!
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My arguement is that to get the same energy to target, the heavier caliber can be going slower.
You got to really launch a 45 heavy to get that same energy as a 475.
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Look at the heavies in both calibers.
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As to myself, I had some old 45-70 brass, so to avoid wasting it, I got my first 475. Logic is logical.
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If everyone agrees, the thread has ended.........
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However.................
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Oh yeah Cotton, forgot to wish you a happy New Year.....

Cottonstalk; IMHO the 44 or 45 is all you "need" for anything, anywhere. Keep in mind that the 44 Mag has taken every animal on planet earth, and the 45 in a modern handgun can do the same. I shoot up to 405 grain bullets in my 44 mags...and, there are 405 grainers for the 45 as well, so, bullet weight is not an issue in that respect. If you want a larger bore handgun, I would say go for it and see what you think...some folks like them (I wont mention Whit ), and others like myself are happy with an "old reliable" 44 or 45. Whatever trips your trigger!!!!

Nonsense, bigger is better as long as you can shoot it and Cottonstalk can certainly handle the bigger guns. Need doesn't play into this discussion. Keep the .45 (it's a keeper -- I know, I've shot it) and use the little .429 as your foundation for the .475 that you want. Or, pick up another donor if you want to keep the .44 for varmint hunting (that was for you, flat top -- ). The .475 Linebaugh has absolutely no flies on it and is darn near the perfect handgun caliber in my humble opinion. It can do it all and better than either the .44 or .45. You won't be sorry.

So, what justification is necessary?????????

Justification??????
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Justification???????
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We don't need no stinking Justification!!!!!!

Yep, bigger is better if you can handle it. Thats why I have the 500 Linebaugh. 350gr bullets for most game and 435gr if I want to get real serious and hammer the biggest game. 350gr even at modest speed will get the job done. I do like the 475L too, but just never saw the need for myself. I do agree that a .44 mag or a warm loaded .45 Colt will get the job done on 99% of the worlds game with the right bullets and put in the right place. That said, if I have to stand before a griz or brownie I would feel better with the 500L.

Amen, Woodrow!

well if whit is on the right path as one would be a donor i would also agree to keep the 45 colt.I love 44 but i ended up converting my last 44 that i shoot into a 500 linbaugh.You will miss the one you use as a donor but you will also be pleased with the new gun from it.

Well, first thing we need to do is drop the "energy" portion of this discussion. A properly loaded .45 Colt will take any game animal on the North American continent as well as most African game. The .44 Mag, properly loaded as well, has been used to take most every species of game.

I use my .475 and .500 Linebaughs because I can shoot larger diameter and weight of bullets without getting into the point of diminishing returns with the smaller calibers. Once you have bullet weight and diameter working for you, the effects on game begins to get more noticeable. Besides, just my primordial tendency to pick up a larger club; as Finn Aagard put it so eloquently.

Whit; Have you ever hunted deer with the 44 Special in a handgun?

I like the 44 Mag, Special and 45 Colt but I must say that I have been having a blast with the new 475 Linebaugh. Next up for me is the 500 Linebaugh.

I would just go ahead and get a 475 Linebaugh if I were you. Why not, you only live once.

Landrum

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Nonsense, bigger is better as long as you can shoot it and Cottonstalk can certainly handle the bigger guns. Need doesn't play into this discussion. Keep the .45 (it's a keeper -- I know, I've shot it) and use the little .429 as your foundation for the .475 that you want. Or, pick up another donor if you want to keep the .44 for varmint hunting (that was for you, flat top -- ). The .475 Linebaugh has absolutely no flies on it and is darn near the perfect handgun caliber in my humble opinion. It can do it all and better than either the .44 or .45. You won't be sorry.

So, what justification is necessary?????????

Whitworth you are way off here. The little .429 mag should not be used a donor. No sir every one needs a good plinker.
Get a new one in 475 or one of the 500's JRH or Linebaugh and now you are steping inot real big bore handgun territory

flat top,

I have taken several deer with a .44 Special. 240 cast SWC over Unique. Have not recovered a bullet yet.

jwp.............you like the 44 mag and the 45 so much that you had one handgun made up to shoot both rounds!!!! Now, if that dont tell your story...nothing does!!!! C'mon bud....fess up....they are your "real" favorites...arent they!!!!!

MS.....which makes my point: how much handgun and cartridge is necessary to kill a deer...or a bear, or a hog, or for that matter anything on the North American continent? If folks want to shoot the big bores thats great, but, are they "needed"...nope, are they "better"...nope...dead is dead! There will always be one "constant" in hunting and that is the game you are hunting, and that never changes. If the 44 Special (which was at one time Americas first true modern big bore handgun cartridge) can get the job done, in "reality" that is all it will ever take to continue getting the job done. I think that even the 44 mag is way over powered for such game, and load down to 44 Special ballistics for deer...no more is really needed. This reminds me of the 30-30 degrading that goes on in other forums. The 30-30 cant do this, and cant do that, yet, the record shows that the old 30-30 has taken more large game animals (including large dangerous game) on the NA continent than any other rifle cartridge....and, if I am not mistaken that applies to the 44 mag as well. I will stick with "old reliable"....and let you young tough guys shoot the hand cannons. I am in a happy place!!!!

JUst what does "over powered" mean? You don't need to drice the big bores hard for them to knock the snot out of an animal. No one is arguing that the .429 isn't "enough," but for some of us, enough just doesn't float our boat. I like more of everything. The recoil doesn't bother me, and I'm no snot-nosed, wet behing the ear 20-something.

And to answer your question, no, I haven't taken any deer with a .429 special. I have taken hogs with mildly loaded .44 mags which is basically the same thing.

I like the .429 mag, I've just never been impressed with it (well, I was when I picked my first one up). I have a nice 3-inch Lew Horton Model 29 that I use for personal defense.

Oh, and Happy New Year, gentlemen!

Whit........a 429 for personal defense? Gee, are you sure thats enough gun?

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
Whit........a 429 for personal defense? Gee, are you sure thats enough gun?

Some times

I believe that Cottonstalk was duly impressed with the 475L with his 1 kill with the cartridge so far...

These days he really just keeps it for a sub-caliber trainer.

jwp; so, you are saying that cottonstalk was "not" impressed with his other kills with the 44 and 45? Seems to me that all this caliber talk is much ado about nothing anyway. Its the ability of the hunter/shooter that makes the kill...not the weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
Whit........a 429 for personal defense? Gee, are you sure thats enough gun?

Even loaded hot it doesn't feel like much gun when I shoot it......

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
These days he really just keeps it for a sub-caliber trainer.

That's exactly what it is!

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
jwp; so, you are saying that cottonstalk was "not" impressed with his other kills with the 44 and 45? Seems to me that all this caliber talk is much ado about nothing anyway. Its the ability of the hunter/shooter that makes the kill...not the weapon.

In some cases, yes. The buck of a life time is headed north and the hunter is on the south end or make that an ELK, Id rather have a 475 or 500 for that length wise shot

quote:

Even loaded hot it doesn't feel like much gun when I shoot it......

Whit; You just made my point....I rest my case.

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:

quote:

Even loaded hot it doesn't feel like much gun when I shoot it......

Whit; You just made my point....I rest my case.

You rest on not much gun??????

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In some cases, yes. The buck of a life time is headed north and the hunter is on the south end or make that an ELK, Id rather have a 475 or 500 for that length wise shot

jwp; Again, we are back to the hunter/shooter...making the shot! I was doing some comparisons of the 475 and the 44 mag from some old Linebaugh Seminars. Came up with some interesting test results. The 475 penetrated the wet newsprint almost twice as nuch as a 44 mag...but, the 44 mag penetrated the "bone" and newsprint test media twice the distance of the 475! Both cartridges penetrated the newsprint further than some very stiff loads in the 45-70. Unfortunately the only weight bullet used in the 44 was 300 grains, and the 475 bullets were much heavier. I would bet, that the 405 grain bullet out of my 44 mag would penetrate just as well as the heavier and faster 475's would. Anyway, interesting test results, but, still not animal flesh and bone.

quote:

You rest on not much gun??????

Whit; its more than enough...believe me.

I have seroius doughts about a 400 grain bullet from a 44 mag a 1000 FPS penetrating well in an animal. the bullet is too long and the twist rate of the revolver is a bit slow for that length of bullet IMHO.

If the 475 did penetrate less in a bone a wet pac test then it is clear that the 475 broke a larger section of bone and blew a much larger wound channel.

I have never seen a 300 grain 44 mag bullet penetrate within a week of a 475 on game

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:

quote:

You rest on not much gun??????

Whit; its more than enough...believe me.

Not my quote, but I agree with jwp on this. Again, never been all that impressed with .429 on game.

If you want to "play" with the 405 load, let me know and I will send you a few bullets...but, when it shows you the "ultimate" in penetration, and you are thoroughly amazed at its performance, you will need to get on here and give a report.....even if it makes Whit mad!!!!

Flatop you are out of control with this 44 thing. Let's meet in Texas and shoot a few LARGE bovines with the little .429. Seeing is believing. I mean 1500 pounds and up

Regarding this quote:

quote:

This reminds me of the 30-30 degrading that goes on in other forums. The 30-30 cant do this, and cant do that, yet, the record shows that the old 30-30 has taken more large game animals (including large dangerous game) on the NA continent than any other rifle cartridge....and, if I am not mistaken that applies to the 44 mag as well.

I have heard that all of my life and it is repeated all the time on these boards but I have my doubts. I would bet that the 30/06 eclipsed the 30/30 in game taken some time back. I don't have any proof but I suspect that is the case.

Landrum

Sounds good! I have two races in Texas...one at Houston in April, and one at Dallas in September, Bekore or after either of those races will be ok, but, I am limited on time,,,so we will have to make it quick! You will have to take the meat, because I wont be able to!!!!

Landrum; The 30-06 was a close second. I got that info years ago (was posted at my old shooting club), but, probably by now the 30-06 has taken the lead.

flat top

You're probably right about the 44 being all that is really needed but it's just so much fun shooting the big boomers.

And when you shoot them from the BFR platform, they are not as vicious as, say, a converted Blackhawk.

Just different strokes, I guess.

Landrum

flat top,

Like you I am a .44 mag fan. I have killed several deer and hogs and one smallish black bear with .44 mag bullets and I have been very impressed with the results. However, you are more confident than me on its use on larger critters.

Have you used the .44 Mag on game larger than deer/hogs? I don't ask this question in a "challenging" manner, I am just curious to hear about your results on larger game with the .44 mag.

Landrum; I know all the guys here like the big bores, but, somebody has to stand up for the old timers! This is the way I look at it...some day Whit and jwp will be standing up for thier 475's the way I stand up for the 44 mag now, because their 475 will some day be an "old timer"...replaced with the latest and greatest, high technolgy, handgun super pooper of a cartridge. Thats just the way things go!

x-caliber; No, I have never shot anything larger than deer with the 44 mag...but, according to testimony from others, it will get the job done with proper shot placement on anything else. Heck, I knew a fella that carried a 41 mag for bear protection........and he shot just about everything in NA with it, including a moose and a brownie! My uncle Buck Louwer was a big game hunter back in the 20's, 30's, and early 40's. He was a
friend of Howard Hill. In the lobby of his home, he had a big polar bear mount...damn thing must have been 12 ft high...he shot that bear and killed it with an old stick bow...osage orange and lemonwood, I believe it was...a 65 pounder. I dont care how big a weapon a hunter carries...its still up to the hunter and his expertise with his weapon to make the killing shot. There is a lot of info on the 44 mag and its abilities, and as I said before it has taken every game animal world wide...is it the "best" for everything...I doubt it, but, within normal handgun ranges (50 or 60 yards) it will get the job done.

quote:

I have seroius doughts about a 400 grain bullet from a 44 mag a 1000 FPS penetrating well in an animal. the bullet is too long and the twist rate of the revolver is a bit slow for that length of bullet IMHO.

If the 475 did penetrate less in a bone a wet pac test then it is clear that the 475 broke a larger section of bone and blew a much larger wound channel.

I have never seen a 300 grain 44 mag bullet penetrate within a week of a 475 on game

JWP, you are right on the money. My friend Pete has recovered three LBT, 320 gr WLNGC boolits from deer this last season. All three shots broke large shoulder bones and stopped under the skin except the last one. The nose was wiped sideways from the bone and turned to go through all the guts and was still inside.

bfr; More info needed! 1. Was that a 44 mag? 2. If so, what was the velocity of the load? 3. At what range were the deer shot. 4 Was that load ever tested for penetration, and if so, what was the media? Thanks! FT