I am planning my 6th hunt in Zimbabwe next year for buffalo. I have taken plainsgame but I need a dependable solid bullet for my 500 revolver. I handload but don't cast my bullets. I have had a problem with a HardCast bullet on a problem elephant lateral brain shot as it broke up and didn't penetrate the skull. (It did knock the elephant down and out for follow up shots). Any suggestions?

The proper lead alloy will not break up or deform. Lead too hard can break up and lead too soft can expand too much and stop penetration.
Be choosey with what you buy.
The wrong jacketed will give you the same problems.
I would consider the Punch bullets.

What bfrshooter said. If you HAVE to have solids you have limited yourself with a 490. You have fewer store bought options. But lathe turned bullets, and swaging of 510 solids are options.
Some solids can be cut down in length for pistols. And pressures go up with solids. John Linebaugh worked up loads for the 475 that way.
A die to swage them is not complex and would open you to all the 510 solids. Some wasp waisting may occur. I did some for 357 mag jacketed for a guy that liked his old 351. Wasp waisted less than a thou in the center.

Drjaws

Drop down to the Big Bore Forum and check out the Terminal Bullet Performance thread and contact Michael458 He has done tons of work on 50 cal hunting bullets and I bet can help you out.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Drjaws

Drop down to the Big Bore Forum and check out the Terminal Bullet Performance thread and contact Michael458 He has done tons of work on 50 cal hunting bullets and I bet can help you out.

SSR

Not for the .500 Smith. The case is only 1.6-inches long. As I stated on the big-bore forum:

Belt Mountain's Punch bullets are probably the toughest "solid" on the market.

This is probably the best option for a handgun as it has a nice wide meplat.

The is a company that make solid turned bullets that would work in a revolver but my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that they're illegal to use in a handgun.

For the next best thing to solids, consider the Barnes Buster bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
The is a company that make solid turned bullets that would work in a revolver but my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that they're illegal to use in a handgun.

For the next best thing to solids, consider the Barnes Buster bullets.

The meplat is kind of small on the Buster. I think the Punch is a bit better and I don't know if CorBon produces a Penetrator in .50 caliber, but that is also a really good bullet with a big meplat.

I picked up an H&R Handi-Rifle in 500S&W and plan on wringing it out with 500gr booooolits.

I am thinking of going in with a throating reamer so I can load the bullets out farther. What is the minimum length of bullet needed in the case?

Andy

How about the NF 375 gf cup point?

SSR

I think there are plenty of bullets on the terminal bullet thread that would work. PM Michael458

quote:

Originally posted by drjaws:
I have had a problem with a HardCast bullet on a problem elephant lateral brain shot as it broke up and didn't penetrate the skull. (It did knock the elephant down and out for follow up shots). Any suggestions?

What bullet were you using ? Get some 700gr Ranger Rick T-Rex's and follow up if needed.

I agree--well made hard cast should not fragment--

linotype has fragmented , but not if properly made-- ie- secondary heat treatment.

The punch is a great bullet.

I also load the 700 mentioned-- more of a novelty--

the penetration of the punch and other well made slugs esp-- 400's and 440's was better.(Cast Performance and Cast Precision as well as my own)

Mass helps --but velocity helped more in my testing.

quote:

Originally posted by T/C Nut:

quote:

Originally posted by drjaws:
I have had a problem with a HardCast bullet on a problem elephant lateral brain shot as it broke up and didn't penetrate the skull. (It did knock the elephant down and out for follow up shots). Any suggestions?

What bullet were you using ? Get some 700gr Ranger Rick T-Rex's and follow up if needed.

http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/


Weren't the 700's haveing some stabilization problems at longer ranges? I don't know if that would matter for a close shot or not(stability inside the animal for deep penetration...)
They are a blast to shoot though.

I bet those long heavy bullets like the 700gr knock the crap out of your revolver too. Like it was stated...just a novelty!

Yup, a good hardcast shouldn't fragment, but it can happen when bullets are brittle. But then some folks drive 'em too hard and wonder why they don't work really well. It's easy to overstep the limitations of a hardcast bullet.

Those 700 grainers from my understanding aren't cast very hard, and are a bit on the soft side. Aside from being really long and probably not stable, I wouldn't want to experiment with them on an animal whose weight is measured in tons. But that's just me.

Get a Punch bullet and you can drive it as hard as you want and it'll do the job in spades.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I think there are plenty of bullets on the terminal bullet thread that would work. PM Michael458

Yup rifle bullets. Again, the case is short compared to any and all rifle rounds Michael has tested. There are better bullets designed for revolver cartridges. Besides, the biggest meplats that worked well at rifle velocities are a bit on the small side for a revolver.

How do you hold a 700 gr boolit in the crimp? Or do you shoot single shot?

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
The proper lead alloy will not break up or deform. Lead too hard can break up and lead too soft can expand too much and stop penetration.
Be choosey with what you buy.
The wrong jacketed will give you the same problems.
I would consider the Punch bullets.

Yes, the proper alloy will deform in heavy bone

quote:

Originally posted by 257x50:
What bfrshooter said. If you HAVE to have solids you have limited yourself with a 490. You have fewer store bought options. But lathe turned bullets, and swaging of 510 solids are options.
Some solids can be cut down in length for pistols. And pressures go up with solids. John Linebaugh worked up loads for the 475 that way.
A die to swage them is not complex and would open you to all the 510 solids. Some wasp waisting may occur. I did some for 357 mag jacketed for a guy that liked his old 351. Wasp waisted less than a thou in the center.

There is no need to cut down rifle solids for the big bore revolvers today, because the Belt Mountain Punch bulloet will indded do the job on Elephant. The bullet is made specificaly for revolvers and is the perfect choice for Elephant.

An Elepahants skulls consists of solid and honey combed bone and a hard cast is not the bullet for this task

JWP475;
Thanks for the info. Ain't progress grand. I have to catch up with the world..........

on a hunt like that there is one bullet, the punch bullet. nothing else makes sense and for a hunt like that the cost isn't a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
on a hunt like that there is one bullet, the punch bullet. nothing else makes sense and for a hunt like that the cost isn't a problem.

Exactly!

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
How do you hold a 700 gr boolit in the crimp? Or do you shoot single shot?

I launch them at around 900fps, and have only had one that started to jump the crimp in my 4" S&W. I haven't put very many of them through my BFR yet.

999/1000 shots i trust my beartooth bullets to hold up. 8/10 times i trust cast performance to do the same. that said, i want 100% and that's the corbon penetrator and the punch bullet, it's the toughest and will not fall apart on anything, i was recently talking to a PH i'm thinking of hunting with, one of three, and he mentioned a failure of the 500 smith on an elephant with a hardcast. would've killed it with a punch bullet. anyways, elephant was killed with a rifle and the handgun hunt of a lifetime was a failure so to speak. kinda makes the price of the punch bullets much easier to swallow.


btw, the bullet was found deformed and in three pieces and the ele almost killed one of the trackers.

One of my big concerns, Michael is that we as handgun hunters can get away with amuch bigger meplat than the rifles. I will get the OAL to you a little later in the day. Thanks!

The Punch Bullet has a lead core, which helps keep the weight up and the lenght not too long

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
on a hunt like that there is one bullet, the punch bullet. nothing else makes sense and for a hunt like that the cost isn't a problem.

+1....

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Somehow I just seem to sniff out anything in .500 caliber! HEH HEH........

What is the max overall length for the 500 S&W? I do have some things that might work that were designed for the 50 B&M Alaskan and the 50 B&M Super Short, possible?

Michael

My fired cases are 1.615"
The S&W cylinder with case in is 2.35"
The BFR's cylinder is 3.002"

So a max nose of .735, and make it shorter just for saftey sake. (.600" ?)

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Somehow I just seem to sniff out anything in .500 caliber! HEH HEH........

What is the max overall length for the 500 S&W? I do have some things that might work that were designed for the 50 B&M Alaskan and the 50 B&M Super Short, possible?

Michael

My fired cases are 1.615"
The S&W cylinder with case in is 2.35"
The BFR's cylinder is 3.002"

So a max nose of .735, and make it shorter just for saftey sake. (.600" ?)

Non expanding bullets as defined by the ATF are not legal in the US. The Belt Mountain Punch Bullet has a lead alloy core and a very small hollow in the center of the jacket. The Barnes Buster bullets also have a lead core, without the lead core both would be illegal in the US

Also the revolvers have a rather slow twist rate when compared to rifles in the same caliber

Dang, didn't I say that?

Hmmm-
wonder if--
"soft"(Non-Beryllium Alloyed) copper solids may be excluded---



US Code Title 18 Section 921
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

It also appears most states have added the following to their laws--



"It is unlawful to possess, manufacture, transport, repair or sell handgun ammunition that is designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating metal or body armor and to be used principally in pistols and revolvers."

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/TXSL.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Hmmm-
wonder if--
"soft"(Non-Beryllium Alloyed) copper solids may be excluded---

It looks like an all inclusive list, so a Non-Beryllium "soft copper" should be fine.

For a definitive yes, a letter could always be sent to the ATF, but I wouldn't see the need for it given the very definite items in the list.

As the person that started this discussion, I'd like to thank everyone who posted. My PH recommended this site and I wasn't disappointed. My Punch Bullets arrived today in 420 gr and I will also order more today in 385gr to begin my reloading and testing for my upcoming hunt. Again, thanks.

A 325 gr. Barnes Buster bullet shot out of a 460 S&W Magnum from a range of 50 yards into tires filled with rocks, cement, etc.

The metplate is kind of small though.

quote:

"It is unlawful to possess, manufacture, transport, repair or sell handgun ammunition that is designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating metal or body armor and to be used principally in pistols and revolvers."

What they fail to see is that a hit with a cast boolit from a .475 or .500 to the chest will crush it unless the jacket has plates. So will all kinds of bullets from rifles. It is just another stupid law that means nothing at all.
Just like a bayonet lug made rifles so dangerous and a knife with a spring is more deadly then one you can flip open.
If the creeps had their way, we would have to poach deer with sticks and use a butter knife to gut them.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
If the creeps had their way, we would have to poach deer with sticks and use a butter knife to gut them.

I was watching the history channel and some woman used a piece of Bamboo to dress out a pig. They used a machete to cut through the hard spots and bones, but everything else was done with bamboo.

quote:

"It is unlawful to possess, manufacture, transport, repair or sell handgun ammunition that is designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating metal or body armor and to be used principally in pistols and revolvers."

Our solid bullets were designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating Animals.
Will this negate the silly state laws?

Those punch bullets will do great for you.